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Roy Don

My brother, a medium? a fraud? or crazy?

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Hello, this is my first post, but I have literally been lurking here for years and feel like I already know some of you guys. Anyway, my brother, who also lurks here at times I think, is beginning to bother me, and heres why:

1. He makes outragious claims such as "I already KNOW what happens when you die!" because "they told me"

2. His belief in EVP and "spirit boxes" goes beyond rational, to the point where an obvious car being turned on in the distance or a legit radio transmission on his "spirit box" makes him think he is hearing ghosts. There is no convinceing him otherwise and he tells me I just don't have the ear for it.

3. He does not seem to know whether he is dreaming or awake or not. What I mean by this is he will have a sleep paralysis episode and see a full on physical manifestaion of my mother or some strangers comming right up to him and telling him things like, he is worthless, or he is a failure, he needs to die etc. This is the most frightening because I believe that it is more of a reflection of his inner feelings and I don't want this to progress to something worse. An example of this is one time he said he was awake in bed with the light on but could not move and an old woman in a black dress came out of his closet, walked right up to him and stared at him, he said she had very scary almost glowing eyes and she either disappeared or went back in the closet befor he was able to move again. Another example of this is he said one time he felt like someone was holding him down and an old woman's voice said "this means war" in a very horse and scary almost monstrous voice. Another time it was a guy saying "soon we'll all be dead"

Anyway I give him every possible explanation that I can think of, from sleep paralysis to paradolia to cross modulation to wood shrinking or expanding to spirit orbs being dust or bugs, but he refuses to even consider a skeptics opinion. I suggested a psychologist but he says "I aint crazy" I don't know what to do.

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Posted (edited)

Welcome :st

How old is your brother and you?

And i wouldn't stress too much about it. In time he will learn(not that i don't think ghost exist, just that your brother dosent seem skeptical enough). I feel like you are both young. If so this is a pretty natural stage IMO anyways

Edit: It would also be fair for you to keep an open mind too, who knows maybe sometimes he does see ghost, though i doubt it because it seems he dosent know what sleep paralysis is.

Edited by spartan max2
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Posted (edited)

Classical example of Sleep paralysis, The feeling of not being able to move. The scary people, all classic SP.

How old is your brother? Considering he is refusing to seek help, there is nothing you can do but support him, and try to keep at the alternative View.

Suggest some mediation, this may help him.

If you brother is under age, may be speak to your parents re getting help.

Regards,

Edit, to Say WELCOME! :clap:

Edited by The Id3al Experience
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Posted (edited)

WOW, this is embarrassing. I don't know if my horrid writing or my brothers totally unrealistic actions mislead you guys, but I am 28 and he is ... well... he is 31. I know this seems like he would have outgrown this but he has not. He will not learn in time if he has not by 31, this is why I fear a possible mental illness.

BTW, he knows very well about sleep paralysis, false awakenings etc. He knows all the skeptical or scientific explanations but he just does not accept them.

Edited by Roy Don
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You are right to be worried about mental illness if he won't accept rational explanations. That is the age schizophrenia can come on. Any history in your family? Does he drink or do illegal drugs? How are his sleeping habits?

See if you can get him to go to a regular doctor first and then depending on the answers to the questions above and what the general practitioner says, to the psychiatrist.

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Ohh......

Well by that age im sure his mind is made up. As long as he dosent hurt himself or anyone else i see no problem though.

If he is though then we may have some issues. I would bring in a psychologist without telling him and say its your friend and have the psychologist analysis him that way.

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Posted (edited)

Coldethyl, This is exactly what I feared and exactly what I told him. I even read him most of the chapter on scizophrenia in my DSM IV manual so that he understood that he is at the average age of its onset. I hope he never reads this because he will be furious, but he is an alcoholic and does not think so because he only has a 6 pack a day. This is why I was concerned and probably should have mentioned it.

I also forgot to mention that the doctor won't work because we, the whole family that is, have been begging him to slow down on his drinking and go see the doctor for a huge rash on his leg as well as get new glasses. We are also concerned about him being diabetic but he is an adult and there is only so much goading I can do. Part of me beleives he is in need of attention, for some reason because I don't believe some of his stories because of how far fetched they sound. He also has all the classic signs of depression, I could go on for ever.

Edited by Roy Don

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Roy Don, the only thing you can do is try since he is an adult, unless he tries to hurt himself or someone else. Or if there is a way you can be his legal guardian. I don't know how that works tho really. Just keep your eye on him and it may take him acting out and having the police escort him there (to a mental hospital). I feel for you, I really do. PM me if I can help in any way.

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Posted (edited)

Well a sound person would consider the option, and then make a conclusion. I did a few years back, when I started to hear voices. I got myself checked. Turned out to be stress and depression. Luckily I found this early, and was able to do self help and I am now cured.

Meditation and relaxation techquies tought me to control my mind, and thoughts, allowing only postive emotions fill me. Of course time to time, I can not. But I am now happier than Iv even been.

I found out that the voices was really just my mind saying things about myself I did not like just as your brother is experiencing. I was not of sound mind to distingiush my own normal thoughts from my own negative depressive thoughts (generally about my worthlessness, or the best way to end my life. The voices were speaking in 3rd party in my head, because I would not accept that I was depressed

I did not think I was speical and could see or hear dead people.

Thus, I can only conclude your brother is depressed, and is to proud to admit it, like I was

my opinion only. Just because it sound very much like my experience (minisu the sleep paralysis) but stress can kick this in.

Regards,

Edited by The Id3al Experience
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Thanks guys. I am all to aware that there is nothing I can really do. The guardian thing just won't work because he is not acting out in that way and he still shows up to work every single day and is otherwise intelligent and of sound mind. I do strongly believe that he needs to work on his depression, which I know is one part of the problem. He is too proud as was mentioned and would never even admit if he is sick. The ghost thing has been there since I was a child, always having to hear him go on and on about it like he was trying to scare or convince me. The concern started when he mentioned seeing people telling him he is worthless and needs to off himself and him stating that he has proof of afterlife and talked to ghosts all the time via EVP.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks guys. I am all to aware that there is nothing I can really do. The guardian thing just won't work because he is not acting out in that way and he still shows up to work every single day and is otherwise intelligent and of sound mind. I do strongly believe that he needs to work on his depression, which I know is one part of the problem. He is too proud as was mentioned and would never even admit if he is sick. The ghost thing has been there since I was a child, always having to hear him go on and on about it like he was trying to scare or convince me. The concern started when he mentioned seeing people telling him he is worthless and needs to off himself and him stating that he has proof of afterlife and talked to ghosts all the time via EVP.

What are your parents like? A deep description of both your mother and father will help you help him.

Edited by SSilhouette

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Posted (edited)

What are your parents like? A deep description of both your mother and father will help you help him.

Well, I don't see how this is entirely relevant but I will go ahead. My parents have been together for over 32 years and have always argued with each other our whole lives. My dad at times has hit her, smashed phones with hammers when the cops were going to be called, kicked our bedroom door off the hinges because we were crying about them fighting etc. This all stems from my mothers inability to forgive my dad for constantly cheating on her when they were younger and she was almost always the instigator of the fights. We, the children, were never beaten or neglected but we did get a spanking a few times, administered by mostly my mother, though my dad has spanked me once and never my brother. We grew up very poor and a lot of their arguements were of course over money as well. They were both alcoholics and smokers, though my mother stopped smoking and only rarely drinks now. Both were high school drop outs and my dad earned his GED in jail of all places. My mom never got a GED but now wants to correct that and even try to go to nursing school, she is a caretaker right now and enjoys it very much. My dad is a maintanence man and a machine mechanic and has been for nearly 20 years. My dad never had any ambition or life goals and as such does not have much of anything to show for his life except their own children, my brother and I, and they made it clear that they are very proud of both of us and how our lives turned out, although my mother is upset that I don't want kids of my own. They were never religious but they stated they believe in god and told us to do the same but never forced it on us. As I got older and admitted I was an atheist my dad came out and said he was to. My mother believed in a god until she had to care for my grandmother, and watching her suffer for so long destroyed her faith in god. My parents would try their best to please us and bought us all they could, however, I always knew we were poor and never asked for anything, where as my brother was spoiled rotten by my grandfather and so asked our parents for everything like a game boy, Sega Genesis, and as a teen expensive clothes and shoes, etc. and they would try their best to give him that stuff. The one thing they wanted was for us to be better than they were and as such were very proud of my brother when he graduated high school, he was the first in our family to do that as well as complete higher education, a welding trade school. They were furious when I got expelled my senior for skipping and got a GED rather then go another year, but they think I made up for it by joining the military. All around we had a great childhood and I have no real bad memories. My brother, for some reason that I cannot understand, thinks that my mother hates him because she does what mothers do, nag about his drinking and his health, and so he often argues with her but never gets violent with her. I have had to toss him around a few times when he got too drunk and threatened people and pushes people around but I would never actually strike him. All in all we have had a loving family and we are still very close, even if it is all based on dysfunction.

Edited by Roy Don

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What I can tell you is to just be there for your brother. I know many adults who act this way and have drinking problems that tie into it. Now I'm not saying it's all in his head as this is very real too him and spirits tend to be attracted to people who are mentally weak. Since he absolutely refuses to see a therapist I would suggest meditation and some activities where he can just let loose and have fun (hopefully forgetting about his problems). It sounds to me he also has very low self esteem. Only he can change his self esteem. Just be supportive of him. Encourage positive thinking. The people I knew got better from their conditions simply with time and being with the right people. I know it doesn't help much but I hope you can take something from it. I hope things work out.

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Well, you hit the nail on the head when you say "low self esteem" because I swear he hates himself. There is a viscious cycle he has fallen into and that is getting picked on and being "uncool" or a "loser" in school he never really had to many real friends or girlfriends. This has lowered his self esteem which in turn keeps him from actively seeking new friends or relationships with people, this lonliness lower his self esteem even more and the cycle continues until the end of time, add on an unhealthy dose of self medication to forget his problems, and an over active imagination and you have the finished product. At least this is how I see it.

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Hello, this is my first post, but I have literally been lurking here for years and feel like I already know some of you guys. Anyway, my brother, who also lurks here at times I think, is beginning to bother me, and heres why:

1. He makes outragious claims such as "I already KNOW what happens when you die!" because "they told me"

2. His belief in EVP and "spirit boxes" goes beyond rational, to the point where an obvious car being turned on in the distance or a legit radio transmission on his "spirit box" makes him think he is hearing ghosts. There is no convinceing him otherwise and he tells me I just don't have the ear for it.

3. He does not seem to know whether he is dreaming or awake or not. What I mean by this is he will have a sleep paralysis episode and see a full on physical manifestaion of my mother or some strangers comming right up to him and telling him things like, he is worthless, or he is a failure, he needs to die etc. This is the most frightening because I believe that it is more of a reflection of his inner feelings and I don't want this to progress to something worse. An example of this is one time he said he was awake in bed with the light on but could not move and an old woman in a black dress came out of his closet, walked right up to him and stared at him, he said she had very scary almost glowing eyes and she either disappeared or went back in the closet befor he was able to move again. Another example of this is he said one time he felt like someone was holding him down and an old woman's voice said "this means war" in a very horse and scary almost monstrous voice. Another time it was a guy saying "soon we'll all be dead"

Anyway I give him every possible explanation that I can think of, from sleep paralysis to paradolia to cross modulation to wood shrinking or expanding to spirit orbs being dust or bugs, but he refuses to even consider a skeptics opinion. I suggested a psychologist but he says "I aint crazy" I don't know what to do.

He does not need to stay in the realm of experiencing "scary" type of phenimenon, even if he refuses to be a skeptic. I too am not a skeptic and think that there is something more, a truth, to experiencing things of this nature but that there is a healthy way to proceed, as in praying, cleansing the house of evil spirits, doing soul work that would move you out of negative mind frames, this also may require help from another. Perhaps a spiritual route and training will be beneficial for him. Perhaps their is a MD whose belief system would not invalidate him, that could encourage him and help him at the same time or maybe some other type of church group or alternative counseling that could help.

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I am in no way a medical or psychoanalytical professional, so this is a friendly suggestion more than anything.

How about giving him a spiritual reason to start behaving? Clearly, he believes he is truly being contacted by evil presences. Encourage him to start meditation, prayer (how religious is he?), and other focusing techniques. Get him to join a meditation therapy group. If he's schizophrenic or something similar (my guess), this has been shown to help. If he is being tortured by evil spirits (I highly doubt it), this will fortify his psyche or something.

This sounds way too much like I'm asking you to encourage his problems, but I promise it's not. Just try to approach him from his mindset. Does this make any sense?

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Posted (edited)

3. He does not seem to know whether he is dreaming or awake or not. What I mean by this is he will have a sleep paralysis episode and see a full on physical manifestaion of my mother or some strangers comming right up to him and telling him things like, he is worthless, or he is a failure, he needs to die etc. This is the most frightening because I believe that it is more of a reflection of his inner feelings and I don't want this to progress to something worse. An example of this is one time he said he was awake in bed with the light on but could not move and an old woman in a black dress came out of his closet, walked right up to him and stared at him, he said she had very scary almost glowing eyes and she either disappeared or went back in the closet befor he was able to move again. Another example of this is he said one time he felt like someone was holding him down and an old woman's voice said "this means war" in a very horse and scary almost monstrous voice. Another time it was a guy saying "soon we'll all be dead"

This is typical hypnagogia http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Hypnagogia . It rather concerning thou if he's not realising this and believing everything he's told while in this state!! and you are correct, its an indication of things going on in his mind (subconciousness).. probably due to his depression (which can cause one to be thinking of subjects like death and not nice things to be coming in).

I dont think he's crazy but probably just experiencing the above, but it sounds like he needs treatment or something done for his depression to help stop his subconciousness from manifesting in this way to him. Along with treatment for his alcoholism. His fantasies of these other stranger things, he could be using as some kind of escape from normal reality, I say this as turning to alcohol is a form of escape too. Of cause then alcoholism can cause someone to stop looking after themselves well.

His belief in EVP and "spirit boxes" goes beyond rational, to the point where an obvious car being turned on in the distance or a legit radio transmission on his "spirit box" makes him think he is hearing ghosts. There is no convinceing him otherwise and he tells me I just don't have the ear for it.

Beliefs can do strange things to people I used to go to a UFO discussion group.. at times we had night outtings .. UFO hunts one could say. Other then their beliefs (I do myself believe in UFOs), the people were all completely sane. Out of UFO spotting trips thou, I watch them call satalities going throu the sky, UFOs.. and they'd all get very excited at what was just a satalite!! (I stopped going on UFO spotting trips as it was all being too ridiculous seeing there was being no lack of good judgement). But anyway.. Im sharing this as its a good example of just what beliefs can do to sane people.

Anyway.. it sounds to me that your brother is a bit like this but his thing is that spirit box making his imagination go wild.

Anyway.. I hope he ends up getting the help he needs for his depression and alcoholism. Unfortunately there is probably not much you can do as he's not crazy. He needs to want to help himself! All you can really do is keep an eye on him in case things get worst.

Your brother could be too concerned to see a psych doctor due to his unusual experiences and beliefs even if he knows he should be seeing one.

Edited by sea-dove

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Spiritwriter, I don't necessarily want him to become a skeptic but I don't want him to go around thinking every bump in the night is a ghost and every piece of dust caught on camera is a "spirit orb". I would like him to consider the scientific explanations and possible solutions to common paranormal claims before he jumps to the conclusion that it is a spirit. I often tell him to make sure that it is NOT normal before he calls it paranormal. The one thing he does not believe in is things like cleansing, prayer, etc so he would never do that.

Theotherguy, I actually have been trying to convince him that maybe church is a good idea. Although this conflicts with my personal views on religion, so I feel like a hypocrite doing this, I would rather him attend a church and meet people and put his life experiences and spirituality to good use worshiping a god than fantasizing that ghosts are harassing him.

Seadove, I have actually showed him that exact link on hypnagogia, and agree with you completely, the problem is, I can scientifically demonstrate something in his presence and show him all the associated proofs and he will say something like "those damn scientists think they know everything!" and "I don't believe your science crap" or "those scientists don't know what the hell they are talking about". I must say, he would make an amazing young earth creationist. Since you mention UFOs, one time we were at the Wendy's drive through, and in broad daylight an obvious plane and cruising altitude flew by in the distance, I thought nothing of it until he jumps out of the car, points directly at it and very loudly proclaims " It's a classic UFO!", by classic he meant saucer shaped, and to this day he swears it was a UFO. This is the type of irrationality he displays on a daily basis.

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It also sounds like he may be living in a fantasy world to cope with his unhappiness in life. Could he have a personality disorder? Maybe some things were truly supernatural but now he's believing everything has supernatural to it.

Definitely self esteem issues and general unhappiness in his life. Just be there for him and show him how wonderful he is and how wonderful life can be. It may take a while but if he can see how lovely life can be I bet this will all stop. :)

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Posted (edited)

I guess this is all I can do, I figured as much, but thanks for the reassurance and tips everyone. I guess I should not be trying to dictate what he thinks anyway. I just become worried when he seems this detached from reality.

Edited by Roy Don

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Posted (edited)

Seadove, I have actually showed him that exact link on hypnagogia, and agree with you completely, the problem is, I can scientifically demonstrate something in his presence and show him all the associated proofs and he will say something like "those damn scientists think they know everything!" and "I don't believe your science crap" or "those scientists don't know what the hell they are talking about".

Im not surprised to hear about the episode with the plane. As Jilliman said, I think he's using this stuff to set up a fantasy world for himself.. he's doing it as an escape to life stuff (just like he probably uses alcohol to do this). This is a sign he could really do with a counsellor but unfortunately it is very unlikely you could get him there as he WANTS to be in this state... its taking his focus away from his life issues... a distraction.

I hope he can one day soon come to his senses and seek help on better ways to deal with issues in his life.

Edited by sea-dove

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Your brother sounds sane to me.. Loads of people see spirits.. Listen and hear things through spirit boxes.. I have seen spirit orbs aswell.. How can a big spherical orb moving about everywhere be dust or a bug.. I think if you are that skeptical about all these things you aren't awake.. You probably more likely have mental illness. Accept the things your brother is saying and leave him to live his life. No psychiatric help is going to change his beleifs

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And if your brother is right? What if he is a medium, should he be force-medicated so all the skeptics feel vindicated that the "crazy-man" is now "normal"?

Oh well, lets all act like we have rights over the life of someone else because they have a different spiritual belief...

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Posted (edited)

Obsession disallows other thoughts to permeate so trapping one in an endless cycle towards self destruction, mainly mental so the solution is to get out and about and mix with others of a similar interest range in sports, entertainment or intellectual pursuits in order to enable the entertainment of another frame of mind, so allowing for a reprieve in the current mindset.

Reading is good, Sci-Fi, Sword and Sorcery stuff where the introduction of similar yet disparate ideologies could blend in and allow a new train of thought to progress....

Being a mate for any such excursions is critical....

*Edit, fingers not hitting all the type, misspelling....

Edited by WierdHalfling

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Just curious why you have a copy of the DSM-IV? You have good writing skills and a good vocabulary for someone expelled from school for skipping class. I'm going to assume you were bored with school, but you respect education, and you have become a self-educated man. That's very commendable.

I suspect that you and your brother have very different memories of your childhood. Your personalities reflect this, with you choosing the military (a social, team-building occupation), and your brother choosing a welding career where he has less contact with the world, while feeling secure behind his welder's mask.

Although you're younger than him, you appear to have taken on the "Big Brother" role toward your brother, and you go into protective mode when he begins to talk irrationally.You mentioned self-esteem at least a half a dozen times, so you know what he's trying to communicate to you. However, the paranormal stuff may just be a smokescreen for his real issues. I'd suggest that you begin making mental notes of what themes (besides the paranormal) your brother repeats during your conversations. He may be throwing out hints that you're missing because the paranormal topics are getting all your attention. Keep in mind, the delusions/encounters he's having all relate to himself as being the center of attention. He may feel a level of comfort in feeling important enough for the "spirits" or "ghosts" to have singled him out for their attention. The self-medication by alcohol may help him suppress the real reasons for his depression and low self-esteem.

I'm assuming you have a gift for counseling, or at least an armchair interest in psychological evaluation. I'd caution you, for now, to do more listening than counseling. It's a possibility that your support for your brother is a self-esteem mechanism for yourself. Make certain that you haven't adopted the Big Brother role in an unhealthy way, where you are the healer and your brother is the needy patient who needs your help. The description you gave of your childhood may indicate a sort of emotional detachment on your part. You described some traumatizing situations that you and your brother reacted to differently. Do some soul-searching to be certain that you aren't hiding some minor PTSD symptoms yourself. The healthier you are, the healthier your support for your brother will be.

Make a note of what your brother says twice during your conversations. Ignore the paranormal topics and concentrate on the "sub-themes". Your brother is naturally reticent to reveal his emotions, and you'll need to dig deep to uncover his true feelings. Don't draw those feelings to his attention, just listen. It may be some time before he feels secure enough to reveal himself. Don't get in the way by "counseling" him.

Forgive me if I've been too presumptious.

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