'How Does This Happen?'

[Space Commander Travis]

How the b******s are unions responsible for p*** poor quality control?

You ought to look at the example of British Leyland in the 1970s; strong unions and poor quality control often seem to go hand in hand.

[Guest]

You ought to look at the example of British Leyland in the 1970s; strong unions and poor quality control often seem to go hand in hand.

There is no reason why they should. If you want to see an example of the opposite look at Germanies VW.

It generally happens when there is an us and them culture between the workers and the managers. Solve that problem, as VW has, and issues of quality control become everyones problem not just the managers.

Br Cornelius

[aztek]

lol, american union workers are not even close to what german union workes are. that is why it works there but not here.

japan also has unions for autoworkers, but japanise workers are very different from american workers as well.

Edited April 11, 2014 by aztek

[Guest]

lol, american union workers are not even close to what german union workes are. that is why it works there but not here.

japan also has unions for autoworkers, but japanise workers are very different from american workers as well.

maybe it is the attitude of managers which is the real problem at the root of this dysfunction.

Br Cornelius

[aztek]

maybe it is the attitude of managers which is the real problem at the root of this dysfunction.

Br Cornelius

why just managers? everyone.

people got fired from Chrysler's plant for smoking weed on the job, union fought and plant had to rehire them, what quality do you expect from stoned workeres and and union that fought to bring such workers back on assembly line. that is just one example. would this ever happen at german plant or in japan? i seriously doubt about germany, and pretty sure it'd never happen in japan.

actually managers are not mostly the ones with "i don't give a sht , you can't fire me anyway" attitude. managers are the ones in between hammer and envil. they are pressed to get productivity up from their managers, and get their ears chewed off if quota is not acheved, but line workes do not care, they are covered and protected by union, they can even smoke pot at work and union still fights for them.

Edited April 11, 2014 by aztek

[Guest]

You miss my point. It is the us and them attitude which creates a lack of commitment to the quality of work produced. This is within the remit of the managers to correct - not the factory workers.

The reason why German unionized workers have a different attitude is because they have representatives on the board of managers and are privy to every detail of the businesses operation. If there is a quality control issue then it is discussed rather than generating a conflict between the managers and the workers.

It is a failure of the national state of mind and general approach to organization which is at root cause - and unfortunately it is only within the power of management to correct this.

Br Cornelius

[aztek]

i see your point just fine, i just dissagree with it compleatly,

[Space Commander Travis]

You miss my point. It is the us and them attitude which creates a lack of commitment to the quality of work produced. This is within the remit of the managers to correct - not the factory workers.

The reason why German unionized workers have a different attitude is because they have representatives on the board of managers and are privy to every detail of the businesses operation. If there is a quality control issue then it is discussed rather than generating a conflict between the managers and the workers.

Sorry to be argumentatative, but really? considering the kind of Union leaders that were such a prominent feature of the political landscape in the Uk during the heyday of the unions, the various leaders of the car workers' unions, the Miners union leaders culminating in dear old Arthur Scargill, and the long line of rail union leaders culminating in Bob Crow (RIP), was there ever any prospect of them ever cooperating with the management in that kind of way? Were, the car workers certainly, were they ever interested in anything other than what they could get out of management in terms of as much money as possible in return for as little work as possible? It's like expecting America and Iran to cooperate by each having representatives in the cabinet of the other to resolve differences. Perhaps the unions in Germany and Japan are more like the political system, with lots of parties rather than a big two adversarial enemies, and they've always been more interested in cooperation as a way of resolving differences rather than confrontation. Perhaps the problem is that the way that unions are organised in britain (when it had any industry) and the US is modelled too closely on the political system, with everything being constantly in opposition.

Edited April 12, 2014 by Colonel Rhubarb

[Guest]

Sorry to be argumentatative, but really? considering the kind of Union leaders that were such a prominent feature of the political landscape in the Uk during the heyday of the unions, the various leaders of the car workers' unions, the Miners union leaders culminating in dear old Arthur Scargill, and the long line of rail union leaders culminating in Bob Crow (RIP), was there ever any prospect of them ever cooperating with the management in that kind of way? Were, the car workers certainly, were they ever interested in anything other than what they could get out of management in terms of as much money as possible in return for as little work as possible? It's like expecting America and Iran to cooperate by each having representatives in the cabinet of the other to resolve differences. Perhaps the unions in Germany and Japan are more like the political system, with lots of parties rather than a big two adversarial enemies, and they've always been more interested in cooperation as a way of resolving differences rather than confrontation. Perhaps the problem is that the way that unions are organised in britain (when it had any industry) and the US is modelled too closely on the political system, with everything being constantly in opposition.

Again you miss the point - the British industry of the 60-70's it was the very epitome of the us and them mentality - firmly laid down along class lines. There was never any attempt to bring the two sides together in the sort of way which is standard practice in Germany. The unions were exerting the only form of power available to them - to disastrous ends, but it certainly didn't have to be that way.

Br Cornelius

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

the copmpany nearly folded some time ago, due to union costs, union promotes lazynes, and irresponcibuility, you do not get punished, in most cases, hell unions fought and made company rehire people that were fired for smoking weed on the job. i wonder how having stoned workers affects quality, lol

but this particular case, union really has little to do, may be higher labour cost can be contributed to company unwilling to perform recall, but it was design flaw in this case.

Bloody hell, America IS a different planet.

Unions in Oz work hand in hand with the business to ensure high quality work is done and have been known to say "yeap, you messed up, you deserved to be fired".