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markdohle

Near death, explained

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Posted (edited)

In 1991, Atlanta-based singer and songwriter Pam Reynolds felt extremely dizzy, lost her ability to speak, and had difficulty moving her body. A CAT scan showed that she had a giant artery aneurysm—a grossly swollen blood vessel in the wall of her basilar artery, close to the brain stem. If it burst, which could happen at any moment, it would kill her. But the standard surgery to drain and repair it might kill her too.

To continue: {http://www.salon.com...ath_explained/}

Edited by Still Waters
Reduced amount of copied text. The rest can be viewed in the source link
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Posted (edited)

That's so scary see doctors doing an operation with your body and cutting your skull.

I've seen an documantary about this on netflix called: afterlife, i find it very interesting. It's kind of simulair story, i've watched it a while ago but it might been he same story not sure, just i remember something like it.

Edited by futuredreamer

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Pretty cool article, wish we could verify the woman seeing the tennis shoe on the ledge, it's difficult to come up with an explanation for that one if true that doesn't involve something non-physical. The main criticism I have of the article is the title; near death was not explained, it sounds more mysterious than ever with a lot of possible theories as an explanation.

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Posted (edited)

And here is a dissection of the Pam Reynolds / Dr Sabom account . And just before it is the story about the tennis shoe too. ;)

If you get creative enough you can make any car accident, big event, or anecdote seem in consistent. All it really is is lawyering and word smithing, and all it takes is a little creativity.

Edited by White Crane Feather
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Interesting reads.

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If you get creative enough you can make any car accident, big event, or anecdote seem in consistent. All it really is is lawyering and word smithing, and all it takes is a little creativity.

Well in this particular case all it really is is skepticism, unless what you mean by 'lawyering and word smithing' is, 'providing counter arguments and evidence'.

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Keep in mind that the electroencephalogram (EEG) are electrodes on the scalp.This system of measuring Brain activity is from strong wave sources, but has a falling off point, especially deeper activity in the cortex.We do not have the habit of putting emergency situation people on the brink of death in an MRI machine, and keep them in there.

Though we are different than a Chicken, the term "running around like a Chicken with it's head chopped off" is significant.All that flapping & running around is basicly bioelectrical/chemical energy without the part that controls most of everything.

It's like a dead Car Battery where you cannot start, but you can still listen to the Radio till AAA arrives.

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Posted (edited)

I think this is very interesting, especially in view of the stroke I suffered because of my own basilar tip aneurysm in January. Now it's considered too difficult to do surgery to the back of the head like that and coiling is the preferred method of dealing with aneurysms in this area. I remember being put under in the hallway and waking up (sort of) while I was being transferred to ICU after surgery. That's it. Nothing more. So I guess all I can infer from this is that I wasn't close to death or dying.

My feeling is that to be that close to death to experience these things, though, means you'd have to be in fact, actually shutting down and dying. Although the doctors brought this woman close to death, I didn't exactly read where she was really dying to the point where they may not have been able to bring her back. So am I missing something here?

But I will give you guys this: every day for the week after surgery for the aneurysm, I had to have an ultrasound done on the back of my head. Basically, I would just lie back and the technician would tell me to turn my head this way, or turn it that way as she did the ultrasound, However, I sort of freaked out the tech a couple times. The first time I had the ultrasound done, I saw a line of doctors coming into the room, They asked me questions and I did my best to answer them. I was wide awake and when the tech was finished, I sat up and asked where the doctors had gone. She was already looking at me sort of wide-eyed and said no doctors had been there. I told her they had come in and asked me questions and I had tried to answer them. She said she knew because she had heard me talking and couldn't figure out who I was talking to. I do not talk in my sleep and I remember being aware and awake at the time because the tech was talking to me too and I could remember what she had said. That wasn't the end of the weird things that happened every time I got an ultrasound, but it was certainly the weirdest. So if you have to ask me, I'd say people's brains really do go into overdrive when they're manipulated in a certain way.

Edited by rodentraiser

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I think this is very interesting, especially in view of the stroke I suffered because of my own basilar tip aneurysm in January. Now it's considered too difficult to do surgery to the back of the head like that and coiling is the preferred method of dealing with aneurysms in this area. I remember being put under in the hallway and waking up (sort of) while I was being transferred to ICU after surgery. That's it. Nothing more. So I guess all I can infer from this is that I wasn't close to death or dying.

My feeling is that to be that close to death to experience these things, though, means you'd have to be in fact, actually shutting down and dying. Although the doctors brought this woman close to death, I didn't exactly read where she was really dying to the point where they may not have been able to bring her back. So am I missing something here?

But I will give you guys this: every day for the week after surgery for the aneurysm, I had to have an ultrasound done on the back of my head. Basically, I would just lie back and the technician would tell me to turn my head this way, or turn it that way as she did the ultrasound, However, I sort of freaked out the tech a couple times. The first time I had the ultrasound done, I saw a line of doctors coming into the room, They asked me questions and I did my best to answer them. I was wide awake and when the tech was finished, I sat up and asked where the doctors had gone. She was already looking at me sort of wide-eyed and said no doctors had been there. I told her they had come in and asked me questions and I had tried to answer them. She said she knew because she had heard me talking and couldn't figure out who I was talking to. I do not talk in my sleep and I remember being aware and awake at the time because the tech was talking to me too and I could remember what she had said. That wasn't the end of the weird things that happened every time I got an ultrasound, but it was certainly the weirdest. So if you have to ask me, I'd say people's brains really do go into overdrive when they're manipulated in a certain way.

You should Google "persinger god helmet".

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Posted (edited)

Keep in mind that the electroencephalogram (EEG) are electrodes on the scalp.This system of measuring Brain activity is from strong wave sources, but has a falling off point, especially deeper activity in the cortex.We do not have the habit of putting emergency situation people on the brink of death in an MRI machine, and keep them in there.

Though we are different than a Chicken, the term "running around like a Chicken with it's head chopped off" is significant.All that flapping & running around is basicly bioelectrical/chemical energy without the part that controls most of everything.

It's like a dead Car Battery where you cannot start, but you can still listen to the Radio till AAA arrives.

Not on humans. But we have put dogs and other mammals through mris and other detailed monitoring while under cardiac arrest. It's pretty conclusive that the brain is in no shape for complex cognitive feats. ;)

Edited by White Crane Feather

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Posted (edited)

You should Google "persinger god helmet".

I suppose if I make peanut a butter helmet you will think pesnuts are not real?

Edited by White Crane Feather

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Not on humans. But we have put dogs and other mammals through mris and other detailed monitoring while under cardiac arrest. It's pretty conclusive that the brain is in no shape for complex cognitive feats. ;)

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=262694&st=360#entry5127258

You should volunteer to live in a lab for a year to prove your abilities to the world.

It can be made into a reality show called "Psychic or Psychotic?".

At the end of each episode you beat up a crash dummy because you cannot prove anything.

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I suppose if I make peanut a butter helmet you will think pesnuts are not real?

Your logic overwhelms the senses.

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http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=262694&st=360#entry5127258

You should volunteer to live in a lab for a year to prove your abilities to the world.

It can be made into a reality show called "Psychic or Psychotic?".

At the end of each episode you beat up a crash dummy because you cannot prove anything.

The thread is not about me. Do you have a counter argument?

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Posted (edited)

Well in this particular case all it really is is skepticism, unless what you mean by 'lawyering and word smithing' is, 'providing counter arguments and evidence'.

There is no evidence there that does not equally fit the counter position. I have been over the Pam Reynolds criticisms seversl times and its not based on anything more than agenda driven speculation and creativity.thats not really skepticism. Skeptics doubt and ask questions. Pseudo skeptics invent and play the debunking game.

Edited by White Crane Feather

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The thread is not about me. Do you have a counter argument?

Show the source of these MRI cardiac arrest dogs you mentioned.

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Posted (edited)

Show the source of these MRI cardiac arrest dogs you mentioned.

Here is a good start. But why would you doubt such a thing? Do you think no one has ever thought to do it? Researchers are very thorough. Of course they have put many things to death iN a brain imager. They do this to try and understand the dying process so that doctors can interviene.

Brain cells require blood pressure to push nutrients into them from the blood. This is why you collapse and your EEG goes nill nearly instantly upon cardiac arrest. The parts of your brain that are required to process visual experiences, speach, recognition of faces, even create complex hallucinations simply have no way to operate normally. Just recognizing dear old gramps, then talking with him and storering it to memory even in your head requires a very complex synchronization of many different parts of the brain. Dream studies prove that our brain works identically to dreams or hallucinations as when its awake.

Live brainscanss of the brain require radio active dyes to accompany blood flow to the areas of the brain that you are using... MRIs without radioactice dyes work a but different http://www.m.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/magnetic-resonance-imaging-mri-of-the-head . The imager picks up on the radiation. This is how doctors know what areas of the brain involve what cognitive action. No blood flow no cognitive action. EEGs go flat because your cells cannot transmit the electrical signals that they need to. They can't do this because there is no blood flow to push blood into the capilaries that need them and no pressure to give the cell it's little meal it needs to accomplish all this in a global synchronous form.

An Imager will never pick up brain activity after cardiac arrest for two reasons 1) there is no brain activity, that's why your pupils dialate, and even your gag reflex stops. 2) it can't because there is no blood flow to carry the radio active isotopes so that the machine can read blood concentration. ;)

This is why real doctors even neurologists are baffled by the NDE from a physiological perspective. The rest of the creative speculation simply dosnt hold up to scrutiny in the face of facts.

Paradis NA, Martin GB, Rosenberg J. The effect of standard and high dose epinephrine on coronary perfusion pressure dur- ing prolonged cardiopulmonary resuscitation. J Am Med Assoc 1991;265:1139 – 44.

Fischer M, Hossman KA. Volume expansion during cardiopul- monary resuscitation reduces cerebral no-reflow. Resuscitation 1996;32:227 – 40.

De Vries J, et al. Changes in cerebral oxygen uptake and cerebral electrical activity during defibrillation threshold testing. Anesth Analg 1998;87:16 – 20.

Kano T, Hashiguchi A, Sadanaga M. Cardiopulmonary-cerebral resuscitation by using cardiopulmonary bypass through the femoral vein and artery in dogs. Resuscitation 1993;25:265– 81.

Lavy S, Stern S. Electroencephalographic changes following sudden cessation of artificial pacing in patients with heart block. Confin Neurol (Basel) 1967;29:47.

Mayer J, Marx T. The pathogenesis of EEG changes during cerebral anoxia, in: Van Der Drift J, editor. Cardiac and Vascu- lar Diseases Handbook of Electroencephalography and Clinicial Neurophysiology. Amsterdam, 1972. p. 5 – 11.

Buunk G, Van der Hoeven JG, Meinders AE. Cerebral blood flow after cardiac arrest. The Netherlands J Med 2000;57:106– 12.

Edited by White Crane Feather
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Posted (edited)

I think this is very interesting, especially in view of the stroke I suffered because of my own basilar tip aneurysm in January. Now it's considered too difficult to do surgery to the back of the head like that and coiling is the preferred method of dealing with aneurysms in this area. I remember being put under in the hallway and waking up (sort of) while I was being transferred to ICU after surgery. That's it. Nothing more. So I guess all I can infer from this is that I wasn't close to death or dying.

My feeling is that to be that close to death to experience these things, though, means you'd have to be in fact, actually shutting down and dying. Although the doctors brought this woman close to death, I didn't exactly read where she was really dying to the point where they may not have been able to bring her back. So am I missing something here?

But I will give you guys this: every day for the week after surgery for the aneurysm, I had to have an ultrasound done on the back of my head. Basically, I would just lie back and the technician would tell me to turn my head this way, or turn it that way as she did the ultrasound, However, I sort of freaked out the tech a couple times. The first time I had the ultrasound done, I saw a line of doctors coming into the room, They asked me questions and I did my best to answer them. I was wide awake and when the tech was finished, I sat up and asked where the doctors had gone. She was already looking at me sort of wide-eyed and said no doctors had been there. I told her they had come in and asked me questions and I had tried to answer them. She said she knew because she had heard me talking and couldn't figure out who I was talking to. I do not talk in my sleep and I remember being aware and awake at the time because the tech was talking to me too and I could remember what she had said. That wasn't the end of the weird things that happened every time I got an ultrasound, but it was certainly the weirdest. So if you have to ask me, I'd say people's brains really do go into overdrive when they're manipulated in a certain way.

Memory is the issue. Just like dreams, getting the conscious memory to retain experiences from an altered state is tricky. If you don't remember it then it might as well have never happened, but that dosnt mean it didn't. People dream all night but don't remember a thing usually. Where and when the mind decides to trigger an NDE is far to difficult to decern, but it does seem to revolve around cardiac arrest, but this might be scewed because NDE researchers use that as a criteria.

An interesting thing is that most people remember about 10% of their dreams as a human average. It's also a little more than 10% of people that experience the NDE. upon cardiac arrest. I suspect that there are a lot more NDEs that are simply forgotten, I also suspect that the are a lot of Actual death experiences ( Maybe 100%) that of course can never be recorded. Unless you believe in mediums of which case the dead report the same kind of initial experiences. But of course this could simply be the medium.

Edited by White Crane Feather

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My personal experience is perhaps pertinent: remember I feel reasonably sure that we are reborn soon after we die and at death our spirit leaves the body.

I've had two heart attacks (the last on about a year ago) where I was rushed to the hospital in a taxi, my chest being thumped the whole time and me going in and out of consciousness and all I remember is pain. Maybe I didn't "die," and therefore had no experience, or maybe the whole thing is not unlike all the other wishful thinking that goes on here.

I am skeptical out your ear.

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The irony of it all is that if there is no spiritual reality at least 10-12. % of all the people who do not believe in one will by like Holy crap they were right just before they wink out of existence permanently. A decent last thought I think. Especially if you get to go through the life review.

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Well there ain't no life review either.

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Here is a good start. But why would you doubt such a thing? Do you think no one has ever thought to do it? Researchers are very thorough. Of course they have put many things to death iN a brain imager. They do this to try and understand the dying process so that doctors can interviene.

Brain cells require blood pressure to push nutrients into them from the blood. This is why you collapse and your EEG goes nill nearly instantly upon cardiac arrest. The parts of your brain that are required to process visual experiences, speach, recognition of faces, even create complex hallucinations simply have no way to operate normally. Just recognizing dear old gramps, then talking with him and storering it to memory even in your head requires a very complex synchronization of many different parts of the brain. Dream studies prove that our brain works identically to dreams or hallucinations as when its awake.

Live brainscanss of the brain require radio active dyes to accompany blood flow to the areas of the brain that you are using... MRIs without radioactice dyes work a but different http://www.m.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/magnetic-resonance-imaging-mri-of-the-head . The imager picks up on the radiation. This is how doctors know what areas of the brain involve what cognitive action. No blood flow no cognitive action. EEGs go flat because your cells cannot transmit the electrical signals that they need to. They can't do this because there is no blood flow to push blood into the capilaries that need them and no pressure to give the cell it's little meal it needs to accomplish all this in a global synchronous form.

An Imager will never pick up brain activity after cardiac arrest for two reasons 1) there is no brain activity, that's why your pupils dialate, and even your gag reflex stops. 2) it can't because there is no blood flow to carry the radio active isotopes so that the machine can read blood concentration. ;)

This is why real doctors even neurologists are baffled by the NDE from a physiological perspective. The rest of the creative speculation simply dosnt hold up to scrutiny in the face of facts.

Paradis NA, Martin GB, Rosenberg J. The effect of standard and high dose epinephrine on coronary perfusion pressure dur- ing prolonged cardiopulmonary resuscitation. J Am Med Assoc 1991;265:1139 – 44.

Fischer M, Hossman KA. Volume expansion during cardiopul- monary resuscitation reduces cerebral no-reflow. Resuscitation 1996;32:227 – 40.

De Vries J, et al. Changes in cerebral oxygen uptake and cerebral electrical activity during defibrillation threshold testing. Anesth Analg 1998;87:16 – 20.

Kano T, Hashiguchi A, Sadanaga M. Cardiopulmonary-cerebral resuscitation by using cardiopulmonary bypass through the femoral vein and artery in dogs. Resuscitation 1993;25:265– 81.

Lavy S, Stern S. Electroencephalographic changes following sudden cessation of artificial pacing in patients with heart block. Confin Neurol (Basel) 1967;29:47.

Mayer J, Marx T. The pathogenesis of EEG changes during cerebral anoxia, in: Van Der Drift J, editor. Cardiac and Vascu- lar Diseases Handbook of Electroencephalography and Clinicial Neurophysiology. Amsterdam, 1972. p. 5 – 11.

Buunk G, Van der Hoeven JG, Meinders AE. Cerebral blood flow after cardiac arrest. The Netherlands J Med 2000;57:106– 12.

Even though the EEG is used to measure brain death, there is a threshold.The EEG is not like a voltmeter with two probes to the positive, and negative terminal.The EEG put very very basicly reads waveforms, and collapsed waveforms go below threshold.

Since you are up to your old tricks here is the recent study on smaller mammalian brains.

http://m.pnas.org/content/early/2013/08/08/1308285110

http://the-brain-box.blogspot.com/2013/08/in-news-death-wave.html?m=1

One does not need higher cognitive functions to build a basic base memory, and add one's own cultural ideas around it when revived.

Dr Parnia is doing experiments now with a hidden picture in emergency rooms, so I will wait till that study comes

Out.

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Even though the EEG is used to measure brain death, there is a threshold.The EEG is not like a voltmeter with two probes to the positive, and negative terminal.The EEG put very very basicly reads waveforms, and collapsed waveforms go below threshold.

Since you are up to your old tricks here is the recent study on smaller mammalian brains.

http://m.pnas.org/content/early/2013/08/08/1308285110

http://the-brain-box.blogspot.com/2013/08/in-news-death-wave.html?m=1

One does not need higher cognitive functions to build a basic base memory, and add one's own cultural ideas around it when revived.

Dr Parnia is doing experiments now with a hidden picture in emergency rooms, so I will wait till that study comes

Out.

There is no trick. It's one little study in mice. But I don't mention it because its exactly what one would expect upon upon a brain/spirit interface. Its too easy. Especially when the researchers make claims that these little bursts of electricity m might corolate with heightened consciousness. I'm hopeing its true,

mice are pretty small. Static electricity would be enough to set of instruments. But as you have mentioned with chickens they also twitch and wriggle after killing them. These things might be reflexes in animals. Seeming how brainstem activity goes dead in humans and we don't twitch and kick our legs upon cardiac arrest I think we are a bit different. But I would like to see the study repeated in primates. ( rather I'd be interested, killing apes for research sort of p***es me off). If it is across the board the lovely thing about this study is that they will then have to prove where this mysterious energy comes from seeming how known physiology requires pressure to bring fuel to a cells receptors. Then experiments on a cellular level will be required. It may very well end up bring a somoking gun that a spirit does have an energetic signature. Especially if we discover that brain cells do not have reserve energy sources to generate electricity when there is no oxygen or suger available. Don't you love science?

Yes that study has the world waiting. Unfortunatly I don't believe they are controlling it enough. Ill have to wait and see exactly how they organize their statistics above chance.

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Posted (edited)

When doctors operate on patients that they have to put them into a state such as Pam Reynolds they should test the NDE

by placing objects in the room after the patient is unconscious to see if they recall those objects. Since patients claim they

rise above their body, maybe set an object on top of the light over the Operating table that can't be seen from below but

can be seen from above.

Edited by Hawkin

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