What you’d need to make to afford a 1 Bedroom

[questionmark]

The city, local, county, state and multiple Federal taxes were all probably lower then too. I get to keep 60% of my income, but 70 years ago I might have got to keep 85%.

That is part of what happened.

And part of the explanation, if the taxes on each apartment are already $300 no landlord can afford to rent it out at less than $500 (plus utilities).

[Guest]

The city, local, county, state and multiple Federal taxes were all probably lower then too. I get to keep 60% of my income, but 70 years ago I might have got to keep 85%.

That is part of what happened.

Not true - tax take has generally decreased over time not increased. Income Taxes are not the problem in this particular case.

Br Cornelius

Edited April 26, 2014 by Guest

[+DieChecker]

Not true - tax take has generally decreased over time not increased. Income Taxes are not the problem in this particular case.

Br Cornelius

That is Federal taxes, right? I was including all taxes. I know that property taxes (county and city) have gone up dramatically in the last 30 years.

[Guest]

That is Federal taxes, right? I was including all taxes. I know that property taxes (county and city) have gone up dramatically in the last 30 years.

That is Federal taxes, right? I was including all taxes. I know that property taxes (county and city) have gone up dramatically in the last 30 years.

Generally the overall tax take has gone down for the majority of people when all things are considered. It is a conservative myth that we weren't taxed more in the 60-70's.

Br Cornelius

[+DieChecker]

Generally the overall tax take has gone down for the majority of people when all things are considered. It is a conservative myth that we weren't taxed more in the 60-70's.

Br Cornelius

I would point out that in 1960 the Social Security Tax was 6%, and now it is 12%, with a 3% Medicare tax also. That is a 9% effective tax increase, yes? Even if Fed Taxes have been cut in half, more taxes have been invented and charged to the population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_(United_States)

Edited April 28, 2014 by DieChecker

[acidhead]

Generally the overall tax take has gone down for the majority of people when all things are considered. It is a conservative myth that we weren't taxed more in the 60-70's.

Br Cornelius

In the 1960's $20 had the purchasing power of $100 today. Inflation is a tax. Wages stretched further then nowadays.

[Sakari]

In the 1960's $20 had the purchasing power of $100 today. Inflation is a tax. Wages stretched further then nowadays.

dont remind me.......

[Yamato]

And the highway robbery continues unabated today when 100 years ago $5 had the purchasing power of over $100 today. It's a disciplined deliberate nose dive. The Real Owners are going to make us all understand that our dollars aren't worth the paper they're printed on eventually, and by that day, they'll all be sitting in commodities, equities, currencies and debt and they'll be richer than ever at the expense of the masses left holding the bag.

Br thinks that if we only empower government more, the government will get those dirt bags before it's too late! With ingenious new legislation and his class warfare ideology in tow. In his dreams. What he doesn't understand is, the dirt bags include our illustrious leaders who aspired to control us.

Trusting corporations or trusting government is a choice between trusting a whore and trusting a pimp.

[Sakari]

Trusting corporations or trusting government is a choice between trusting a whore and trusting a pimp.

Can I use that? Good stuff.

[Yamato]

Of course!

[Frank Merton]

So prices go up -- be aware of that and arrange your life accordingly (requires intelligent and knowledgeable decisions), but prices will go up and up. In fact in places where they don't go up (like Japan) it has been found to be less than good. The thing is to have an economy where prices go up only moderately and steadily.

[Guest]

In the 1960's $20 had the purchasing power of $100 today. Inflation is a tax. Wages stretched further then nowadays.

The only way to solve this is to do away with money lent into existence at interest. Change the economic model of how things work is the only solution to systemic inflation.

Br Cornelius

[Guest]

And the highway robbery continues unabated today when 100 years ago $5 had the purchasing power of over $100 today. It's a disciplined deliberate nose dive. The Real Owners are going to make us all understand that our dollars aren't worth the paper they're printed on eventually, and by that day, they'll all be sitting in commodities, equities, currencies and debt and they'll be richer than ever at the expense of the masses left holding the bag.

Br thinks that if we only empower government more, the government will get those dirt bags before it's too late! With ingenious new legislation and his class warfare ideology in tow. In his dreams. What he doesn't understand is, the dirt bags include our illustrious leaders who aspired to control us.

Trusting corporations or trusting government is a choice between trusting a whore and trusting a pimp.

Do not mischaracturize me. The Money at interest scam was a choice created by private banks. Its a choice that Governments can choose not to make - so again your argument is directed at the wrong target and is driven by your hatred of Government rather than any logical argument. Taking the Government out of the equation changes nothing whilst ever you leave the Banks to charge interest on the money they allow you to use. Money without interest is a damn site easier to implement by a Government than by anyone else.

Br Cornelius

[lightly]

The only way to solve this is to do away with money lent into existence at interest. Change the economic model of how things work is the only solution to systemic inflation.

Br Cornelius

i can understand money being loaned with interest attached ... but fractional reserve banking , loaning out money that does not exist until it is payed back, With interest .... seems criminal?

[Frank Merton]

Neither borrowers nor lenders are free of guilt here if you want to see it as something bad. Borrowers want to do things with other people's money and lenders want to collect a fee for this.

[lisaloveslilia]

Idk where I fall in this debate. But...as far as the price of a decent apartments goes, I've always been from the camp of- if you want a nicer apartment you have to have the money for it. I'm 35, live in Michigan, worked in a factory since I was 19 and clawed my way up...never felt comfortable staying stagnant in a lower paying position when the things I wanted or felt I needed would require me to earn more money in order to acquire. I talked to an old friend who said she hasn't gotten a raise in 10 years at her job and my thought was...WHY HAVEN'T YOU ATTEMPTED TO GET A PROMOTION OR A BETTER PAYING JOB! I do not have a college degree. But, somehow I have managed to continue to advance in the workplace. The person (sorry don't remember who) that mentioned "being a McDonald's cashier is not a career, being a McDonald's manager is"...was exactly on point!

Now I could lose my job and be forced to work at mickey d's or one of them. But guess who's making manager within the year??? THIS CHICK! Because I would work my ass off and earn it.

Minimum wage is low...could stand to be raised but still!!! Minimum wage jobs should never be careers. I dont know what its like, though, to live in a region where minimum wage jobs are all one can get without a college education. Like I said...I live in MI, work in a factory.

Edited April 28, 2014 by lisaloveslilia

[+DieChecker]

GASP!! WORK ETHIC!!! That's asking too much of people. It is soooooooooo much easier to just complain about it and demand more government entitlement, and then sit at home being a video-hero playing Halo.

[lightly]

I remember when most of this area was family farms... and the little towns here and there were full of owners of independent businesses ... and most other people were self employed in one way or another. Most people worked at, or close to home . The whole system was more flexible and more Affordable!

Similarly, now it's not just households that are feeling the pinch ... for some reason, we could build roads and bridges 50 years ago.. and now it's all falling apart because we can't afford to do anything anymore! I think the biggest reason we can't is DEBT. The country's in Debt.. the State is in Debt, the County is in Debt (this one Severely) ... most of the people are in Debt.

I dunno, there are just so many added costs nowadays... Many people can't keep up anymore. Oh well , as long as the richest get richer... it's economic GROWTH . ya .. like cancer

[Gunn]

GASP!! WORK ETHIC!!! That's asking too much of people. It is soooooooooo much easier to just complain about it and demand more government entitlement, and then sit at home being a video-hero playing Halo.

Is that the case with the majority of 315 million people in this country? Or is it the case because there are not enough good paying jobs for everybody these days, because a lot of companies hauled themselves off to other cheap labour countries like China and now a majority of people with good work ethic are stuck here, working minimum wage jobs like at McDonalds and Wal - Mart? Hell I know several people, that once had a good paying job and are now working a minimum wage job because companies laid them off indefinitely, who would love to be in Lisaloveslilia position right now.

You could probably point me to a number of high paying jobs across the U.S. But to be fair, we would need total up all those good paying jobs and subtract the number of good paying jobs from the 315 million population total. I bet what ever good paying jobs you find and total up, wouldn't even make a dent in population total of the U.S. Furthermore, the population is growing fast, teenagers are becoming old enough to work and I would wager that at least half them would like to get out on their own and work so they can afford to play Halo.

[+DieChecker]

Is that the case with the majority of 315 million people in this country?

First of all, a good percentage of people working minimum wage have a good Work Ethic, but we now have over 50% of the adult, working age, population living at least partially with FedGov assistance. AND... I admit that many of those people need the assistance. But there clearly is a section of the population that simply does not desire to work and suckles at the Federal money machine.

And it is definately easier to just claim entitlements and not work at all. You'll never get rich, but you don't have to work either. And a good percentage of the population is fine with that.

I hear all the time that these people simply don't have the opportunities, when the reality is that if they really, really wanted to go looking, they would find those opportunities.

[+DieChecker]

Similarly, now it's not just households that are feeling the pinch ... for some reason, we could build roads and bridges 50 years ago.. and now it's all falling apart because we can't afford to do anything anymore! I think the biggest reason we can't is DEBT. The country's in Debt.. the State is in Debt, the County is in Debt (this one Severely) ... most of the people are in Debt.

It doubtless is because in 1950 they would... survey a road or bridge... go to the county/city/state and get approval... then construct said road/bridge.

Now you have to... propose road/bridge.... propose budget... have several public meetings... get environmental, financial, archeolgical and geological studies done... find more money, because money you had is all gone... have more public meetings... contracts... unions... equipment.... more meetings.... more finance analysis... And finally construction of road/bridge.

[Gunn]

First of all, a good percentage of people working minimum wage have a good Work Ethic, but we now have over 50% of the adult, working age, population living at least partially with FedGov assistance. AND... I admit that many of those people need the assistance. But there clearly is a section of the population that simply does not desire to work and suckles at the Federal money machine.

And it is definately easier to just claim entitlements and not work at all. You'll never get rich, but you don't have to work either. And a good percentage of the population is fine with that.

I hear all the time that these people simply don't have the opportunities, when the reality is that if they really, really wanted to go looking, they would find those opportunities.

Yes, but the way you and a few other UM members here, as well as conservative media types like Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Hannity (and a bunch of other conservative types that I can't think of right now) talk about the unemployed and underemployed in the U.S., all of you make it sound like it's currently half of the population that are lazy entitlement/welfare succubus. When it's probably only a small minority out of the total 315 U.S. population, that are really like that. Usually most people like that are criminals, drug addicts who don't want to quit drugs because they don't care, and yes...probably a few thousand that just simply don't want to work and sit on their butt all day because they don't like working for a living.

But those jokers are minuscule compared to the people at large, who are working their asses off in minimum wage jobs, or those who desperately want a job and complaining about their personal economic situation.

See I don't understand the conservative train of thought on all of this. It seems to me the way the conservative mind perceives the employment problems in the U.S. are contradictive to their own thoughts. On one hand you hear from them that the country is broke, that the country's economy is going nowhere under the Democrats, companies are not hiring as much as they should because of the Democrats, or companies are cutting jobs down to part- time because of Obamacare and the current Administration.

Yet, on the other hand when people who are unemployed or underemployed and complain, you hear from the conservative types that opportunity exists, like it's boundless, like there is enough high paying jobs for everybody everywhere. All you gotta do is pull yourself up by your bootstraps and go here and go there, it's that easy. Job opportunity is everywhere for everybody. Nobody should complain, they're just lazy and don't want to do anything for themselves.

But how is it, with those that are working their tails off and those who desperately want a job and are looking for a job, who complain about their situation and not the minority of entitlement slackers that the conservatives make out to be half the population in the U.S., suppose to do that when the country's current stagnant economy does suck?

I don't see how those 40 to 60 year olds, who were once working high paying jobs beforehand, who are now taking the place of a teenager's job (fast food jobs and grocery store jobs), along with a lot of unemployed younger generations, because a lot the fast food and store jobs went to the older generations, are suppose to stop complaining and find high paying jobs when there's not enough for everybody since this economic downturn began - and not getting any better I may add or if it is, it's getting there really, really slowly.

I'm just mind boggled by this type of flip-flop mentality with conservatives. I just don't get it.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Purifier

[Frank Merton]

A decent one-bedroom with modern kitchen and bath (Western style) in Ho Chi Minh City will run you about $200 a month and is out of the price range of most of the population -- not that they don't work hard (they typically work ten hours seven days a week) but that salaries are low and most are self employed (really just under-employed).

This is not untypical of developing countries, so the complaints I read above and the silly "liberal" solutions offered (especially high minimum wage) strike me as naive and maybe even stupid. Believe me if you force wages too high in the States the jobs will come here, and if you go the union's route and try to use protective tariffs to prevent that, you will lower living standards in the States and cheat poor people elsewhere of the opportunity to make a good living.

[lisaloveslilia]

Let me further my story...before getting back into the factory work (I was on unemployment) for 2 years. One plant clos3d down and I thought I'd get a degree and get into a new line of work. I invested in a bogus online college...saw that and dropped out after 2 semesters. I then got a part time job as a cashier at a gas station and continued to collect unemployment. I did the wrong thing, made wrong choices. For 2 yrs I didn't look for a decent job. I basically sat on my butt and milked the system. My depression hit an alltime low and I finally went out and got back into the factory biz with same company, different plant. I am currently paying unemployment back. But I know the "milk the system" angle.

I can't speak for everyone's situation. That was MINE and I admit it. I believe the collective American Sh** hit the fan when the stock market collapsed. It changed my whole situation in life. My plant closed and severe depression caused me to make some seriously bad decisions. Im happy to say I snapped out of it.

I am pretty much one of the most LIBERAL people I know...but ill never sit here and justify milking the system! I was wrong for that and I corrected it.

Edited April 29, 2014 by lisaloveslilia

[Frank Merton]

Factory work is rapidly going the way of agricultural work and such jobs are becoming rare, even in developing countries, because of automation.

In the past automation served to improve living standards by making products with higher quality less expensively, and in the meantime because of the extra money in people's pockets also served to create new jobs elsewhere. This seems to be not working as well as in the past and instead more of the profit from automation is going into the pockets of enterprise owners than consumers. There are a number of theories as to why this is, but I think it's mainly because of a reduction in competition as large enterprises come more and more to dominate both manufacturing and retailing.