Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 2
Jargogle Ergo

Fulcanelli's "great" mystery

52 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

In the preface to the first edition of Fulcanelli's Le Mystere des Cathedrales (the Msyery of the Cathedrals), Eugene Canseliet states that:

][/font]

I know, not from having discovered it myself, but because I was

assured of it by the author more than ten years ago, that the key to

the major arcanum is given quite openly in one of the figures,

illustrating the present work. And this key consists quite simply in

a colour revealed to the artisan right from the first work. No

Philosopher, to my knowledge, has emphasized the importance of

this essential point. In revealing it, I am obeying the last wishes of

Fulcanelli and my conscience is clear.

And now may I be permitted, in the name of the Brothers of

Heliopolis and in my own name, warmly to thank the artist, to

whom my master has entrusted the illustration of his work. For it

is indeed due to the sincere and scrupulous talent of the artist

Julien Champagne that Le Myst2re des Cathkdrales is able to wrap

its esotericism in a superb cloak of original plates.

The "key given quite openly in one of the figures illustrating the present work", was drawn by Julien Champagne:

Frontispice+dy+Myst%25C3%25A8re+des+Cath%25C3%25A9drales+de+Fulcanelli+%25281926%2529450.jpg

The alchemical bird, the Black Crow, is the Nigredo (putrefaction) stage of alchemy, the first and most important stage required for the journey.

Is this nigredo the same melancholy that were see weighing on the winged figure of Genius in Albrecht Durer's woodcut Melencolia I?

95801-004-FC8AEA01.jpg

Edited by Jargogle Ergo
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...you might want to do yourself a favour and read some of the historian Dame Yates' books. This is highly technical work that requires a great deal of period knowledge to unpack and appreciate, and assuming a rational connection between "Fulcanelli" and any pre-modern writings tends to be only followed up by fringe fantasists.

If you actually want to know more about the academic uses of alchemy and Neo-Platonic thought in the late medieval era or the early Renaissance, I'm happy to help, but if you're just in it for "ancient wisdom and mysterious secrets", I'll leave you to the woo-woo crowd and their platitudes.

--Jaylemurph

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, it's awfully kind of you and thank you for the offer.

But no thank you.

However, I am familiar with Giordano Bruno.

The problem I find with academic attempts at unravelling the mysteries, alchemy and hermeticism etc., is that they very often lack true insight. This is, I think, because they really don't know what they're talking about. They do not possess the keys to unlocking these matters - so it's often a lot of hot air being propelled into space - an academic greenhouse gas if you will. Consequently, unenlightened "academic" understanding of these matters is of little interest to me.

On the other hand, the Swiss psychologist Carl Jung (amongst others) got to the real heart of the matter and he is worth reading. Maybe you'd like to read Jung's Alchemical Studies, Mysterium Conjunctionis and Red Book - amongst others?

And I'll give you the benefit of the doubt by adding the words "assuming you haven't read them already"...

You'll find it takes time to adjust to Jung's style because it's highly technical work that requires knowledge to unpack and appreciate.

I found your comment that those interested in Fulcanelli must be fringe fantasists to be very curious. Forgive me if I observe that this comment seems to reveal a lack of understanding of the subject matter. Have you ever read Fulcanelli? I suspect not. Do you have any insight into the meaning of the Alchemical crow in the Jungian sense?

Jargogle

PS, I do like your signature. It's a sharp sword that cuts both ways and requires care to handle.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's always fascinating to see the rationales people on the academic fringes use to disparage mainstream academia.

It's never, as where I stand when I expound my on beliefs about Atlantis that I'm talking cobblers it's that they're lying, or tools of the Illuminati or just uninformed.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Moving along.

It is a tradition of the mystery schools that the great secret is writ openly at the beginning. The great secrets are usually simplicity themselves. But following them is the hard part and requires dedication and not a little degree of stubbornness.

An example of “writ openly” was the motto of the ancient Greek mystery schools. Carved into the lintel above the entrance to these school, were the words “Gnothi Seaton”. Apprentice students had to walk under this inscription to enter the school and yet few understood its true significance, hastening by to it in the hope of learning more interesting things.

Gnothi Seaton means “Know Thyself”.

In Fulcanelli’s Le Mystere des Cathedrales, the cover image is of a cathedral Rose window shining refracted light into the inner darkness:

415HHDCXC3L.jpg

It is an appropriate image if we consider the possibility that the cathedral is, actually, a coded rendering of ourselves. We all may benefit from shining a light inward into our own darkness.

There are different ways and means to undertake this journey. Some may find Jung's Confrontation of the Shadow to be the best hardest way. Others had to endure the poisoning vapours of mercury in the alchemical retort of the middle ages. Still other chose the Hermetic serpentine path. Presented in different ways, and at different times, they are one and the same in actuality.

In Fulcanelli's book, a method is alluded to in the Introduction by Walter Lang. The introduction obviously is at the very beginning of the book and, therefore, is in keeping with the ancient tradition of revealing the secret at the outset. As they used to say: those who have eyes to see and ears to hear, see and hear. Lang goes on to say:

Given that the reader of Mystere des

Cathedrales has even begun to suspect the first secret, Fulcanelli's

legacy is at once seen as an exposition of an incredible fact: that,

wholly unsuspected by the profane, the Gothic cathedrals have for

seven hundred years offered European man a. course of instruction

in his own possible evolution.

He then follows this statement with these words:

Like all who truly KNEW, from Hermes through Geber and the

Greek and Arab artists to Lully, Paracelsus and Flamel, Fulcanelli

masks and reveals in equal measure and like all before him, he is

wholly silent on the initial step of the practice.

But in his method of repeatedly underlining certain words and

perhaps in some curious sentences on the rose windows, he suggests,

as explicitly as he dares, the mightiest secret that man may ever

discover.

The "initial step" followed by "some curious sentences on the rose windows" leads, Lang says, to "the mightiest secret that man may ever discover"...

When we read Fulcanelli's own words discussing the rose windows (page 50/51) he says this:

As a consequence of this arrangement, one of the three rose windows which adorn the transepts and the main porch, is never lighted by the sun. This is the north rose, which glows on the facade of the left transept. The second one blazes in the midday sun; this is the southern rose, open at the end of the right transept. The last window is lit by the coloured rays of the setting sun. This is the great rose, the porch window, which surpasses its side sisters in size and brilliance.

Thus on the facade of a gothic cathedral the colours of the Work unfold in a circular progression, going from the shadows-represented by the absence of light and the colour black-to the perfection of ruddy light, passing through the colour white, considered as being the mean between black and red.

​Well, that clears everything up doesn't it. :unsure2:

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is Fulcanelli the art Gothic/Argot bloke?

That there's a hidden language in gothic architecture?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mathematics started off as a 'secret and hidden' language to early Civilizations across the ancient world ~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is Fulcanelli the art Gothic/Argot bloke?

That there's a hidden language in gothic architecture?

Yes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is Fulcanelli the art Gothic/Argot bloke?

That there's a hidden language in gothic architecture?

Fulcanelli was an alias and there is still a mystery as tho who he really is. Except for people publishing fringe work (i.e. Bergier) nobody has ever met the man. The only thing certain is that two books were published in the 1920s.

And yes, the so-called Phonetic Cabala is attributed to him.

There is a house in Navia (Spain) where people claimed that Fulcanelli lived until the 70s (the only thing certain is that somebody mixing alchemical potions lived there).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mathematics started off as a 'secret and hidden' language to early Civilizations across the ancient world ~

Why do you claim that? The earliest mathematics was the counting of things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why do you claim that? The earliest mathematics was the counting of things.

Well assigning a function to something is something of a mystical experience when you don't understand the "rules".

I work with kids who are still learning to count let alone identify a number of things quickly, me saying "there are five beans" is one thing, them believing that there are five is another matter entirely. They HAVE to count them to be sure and so forth. Any number larger then they're capable of understanding easily (5 (fingers on one hand), 10 (all your fingers) and 25 (all the kids in the class) being the ones they get easily enough. Anything more then that and you might as well say "there are eleventy-one days in a year" and "wibble-quick number of kids in the school" they do not understand those sort of numbers. In fact, some of them have trouble with anything that isn't 1, 2, 5, 10 because they don't have concrete references for them to compare one set of things (fingers) with another (apples) and comparing them? "So five apples is the same as five oranges?").

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why do you claim that? The earliest mathematics was the counting of things.

With many thanks to Sir Wearer ~

~ to add ... what you are referring to is probably an intention to 'recording' of things rather than 'counting' ~ actual 'counting' probably started when the ancients started 'building' / 'constructing' ~ more towards an early Science of Mathematics ~

~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, it's awfully kind of you and thank you for the offer.

But no thank you.

However, I am familiar with Giordano Bruno.

The problem I find with academic attempts at unravelling the mysteries, alchemy and hermeticism etc., is that they very often lack true insight. This is, I think, because they really don't know what they're talking about. They do not possess the keys to unlocking these matters - so it's often a lot of hot air being propelled into space - an academic greenhouse gas if you will. Consequently, unenlightened "academic" understanding of these matters is of little interest to me.

On the other hand, the Swiss psychologist Carl Jung (amongst others) got to the real heart of the matter and he is worth reading. Maybe you'd like to read Jung's Alchemical Studies, Mysterium Conjunctionis and Red Book - amongst others?

And I'll give you the benefit of the doubt by adding the words "assuming you haven't read them already"...

You'll find it takes time to adjust to Jung's style because it's highly technical work that requires knowledge to unpack and appreciate.

I found your comment that those interested in Fulcanelli must be fringe fantasists to be very curious. Forgive me if I observe that this comment seems to reveal a lack of understanding of the subject matter. Have you ever read Fulcanelli? I suspect not. Do you have any insight into the meaning of the Alchemical crow in the Jungian sense?

Jargogle

PS, I do like your signature. It's a sharp sword that cuts both ways and requires care to handle.

I'll leave you to your constructed "mysteries" and your disappointment that history isn't as entertaining as you want it to be. No doubt I'll feel foolish when you use Jung and Fucanelli to spin lead into gold.

I mean, I have read his Alchemical Studies, but nothing about it lead me to believe he was writing about anything /historical/ and I missed the part where he was seriously recommending his study to apply to the non-pyschological world. The Rosicrucians, however, repeatedly stressed the importance of their interactions with the physical, political world. So if you're not interested in understanding these people /on their own terms/ and want to play with Jung and his pyschosis, have at!

I mean, is there any documentary, period evidence to back up these rather extraordinary architectural claims, or do we all just blithely accept the nameless, unquestionable Fulcanelli just luckily and intuitively divined these lost secrets from looking at cathedrals? Your claims of theoretical hot air stings both ways, here. Fulcanelli is right because... what, he tells you what you want to hear? Always the mark of keen criticism. I myself have divined the secret school of Past Basset Knowledge from examining the patterns of basset hound droolmarks on the sidewalk, which is every bit as compelling as Fulcanelli. I assume you'd be interested in my numerous (reasonably priced) e-texts on the subject?

--Jaylemurph

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am many years from my childhood interest in the occult and alchemical esoterica, but I seem to recall that most, (if not all), of the claims regarding Fulcanelli were made by a gentleman who claimed to have been one of Fulcanelli's adepts. I know he was a french chap, but I can't for the life of me remember his name and i think that it turned out that he was actually suspected of being Fulcanelli himself, does that ring any bells?.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am many years from my childhood interest in the occult and alchemical esoterica, but I seem to recall that most, (if not all), of the claims regarding Fulcanelli were made by a gentleman who claimed to have been one of Fulcanelli's adepts. I know he was a french chap, but I can't for the life of me remember his name and i think that it turned out that he was actually suspected of being Fulcanelli himself, does that ring any bells?.

Eugène Canseliet? If he was Fulcanelli, Fulcanelli was way below the claims made about him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The pursuit of "esoterica" such as alchemy seems to me to be nothing more than a disassociation with the present in the belief there was a "grand past". For example, take the mixture of symbolism 'alchemists' use - combining ancient Egyptian, Hebrew, Greek and Roman symbology and language (it is invariably couched in latin) - and placing it in a distinctly Rennaisance period context.

If there was any 'truth' in alchemy, and this mixture of symbologies depicts it, the alchemy must be timeless - so where is the modern symbology? Why resort only to symbology from ages past?

Everything about this screams "I don't like the present". In that respect there is a connection between 'esoterica' such as alchemy, and psychology - just not the connection the OP, perhaps, wishes to acknowledge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The pursuit of "esoterica" such as alchemy seems to me to be nothing more than a disassociation with the present in the belief there was a "grand past". For example, take the mixture of symbolism 'alchemists' use - combining ancient Egyptian, Hebrew, Greek and Roman symbology and language (it is invariably couched in latin) - and placing it in a distinctly Rennaisance period context.

If there was any 'truth' in alchemy, and this mixture of symbologies depicts it, the alchemy must be timeless - so where is the modern symbology? Why resort only to symbology from ages past?

Everything about this screams "I don't like the present". In that respect there is a connection between 'esoterica' such as alchemy, and psychology - just not the connection the OP, perhaps, wishes to acknowledge.

There is slightly more to it, you have to remember that the guild of quacks has used "alchemy" for ages to lighten gullible from the burden of their purses. That went to the extent that on the demise of Johann Faust (yep, he existed and was not a pure invention by Goethe...though he called him Heinrich) the count of Zollern had a squadron of soldiers dispatched to impound all books or writings in his possession. Whatever his loot was it was not very impressive, as Faust surely took the quackery of the age to new levels.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is slightly more to it, you have to remember that the guild of quacks has used "alchemy" for ages to lighten gullible from the burden of their purses. That went to the extent that on the demise of Johann Faust (yep, he existed and was not a pure invention by Goethe...though he called him Heinrich) the count of Zollern had a squadron of soldiers dispatched to impound all books or writings in his possession. Whatever his loot was it was not very impressive, as Faust surely took the quackery of the age to new levels.

I acknowledge it was simply a means to make money by past 'practitioners'. There are still modern flim-flammers relieving the gullible of their pocket-money, to be sure, so perhaps I should have qualified my post by stating the "pursuit of alchemy by the modern, gullible, lay-person" in the first sentence.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Eugène Canseliet? If he was Fulcanelli, Fulcanelli was way below the claims made about him.

Thats the fellow, thanks for that ?mark. Wasn't there also some association with a tomb that supposedly named a date for the apocralypse, or some such?. It said 'Hendaye' on it?, and this was taken to be 'end day'.

Edit: I am sorry if this sounds incredibly vague, but I'm operating from the barest memory - I was forty the other day, so its all going downhill.

My wife just said 'bloody google it dear, and stop wasting everyones time'.

Edited by Jon101

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thats the fellow, thanks for that ?mark. Wasn't there also some association with a tomb that supposedly named a date for the apocralypse, or some such?. It said 'Hendaye' on it?, and this was taken to be 'end day'.

Hendaye is the name of a border town on Northern Spain border with France(in the French version, Hendaya in Spanish) ... so I guess there must be some tombs around there...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hendaye is the name of a border town on Northern Spain border with France(in the French version, Hendaya in Spanish) ... so I guess there must be some tombs around there...

Well, I went one better than 'googling' and had an expedition in to attic and found the book. It makes a fairly clear cut case for thinking that a friend of Cansaliet, a chap called Julien Champagne was fulcanelli and the tomb I was thinking of was this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Cross_of_Hendaye.

I did have a google though and found this site : http://alchemy1961.tripod.com/fulcanelli.htm. It seems reasonable enough.

Thanks to the Op and to Questionmark for inspiring me into a foray into the nether world of our attic, I have dredged out one of my sons old scalextric tracks to have a ply with, I didn't know they were still up there.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I went one better than 'googling' and had an expedition in to attic and found the book. It makes a fairly clear cut case for thinking that a friend of Cansaliet, a chap called Julien Champagne was fulcanelli and the tomb I was thinking of was this http://en.wikipedia....ross_of_Hendaye.

I did have a google though and found this site : http://alchemy1961.t.../fulcanelli.htm. It seems reasonable enough.

Thanks to the Op and to Questionmark for inspiring me into a foray into the nether world of our attic, I have dredged out one of my sons old scalextric tracks to have a ply with, I didn't know they were still up there.

The Great Cross... now we are talking... but, totally disregarding Fulcanelli's unwisdom: That type of cross, in different layouts, are typical of the St. Jacob peregrination trail. There are hundreds of them all through Southern France and Spain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I'll leave you to your constructed "mysteries" and your disappointment that history isn't as entertaining as you want it to be. No doubt I'll feel foolish when you use Jung and Fucanelli to spin lead into gold.

I think I need to correct your misrepresentation of what I earlier said.

Where did I say that I didn't find history entertaining?

My actual thrust was with academic interpretations of something they (many of them anyway) have zero knowledge or understanding of.

I mean, I have read his Alchemical Studies, but nothing about it lead me to believe he was writing about anything /historical/ and I missed the part where he was seriously recommending his study to apply to the non-pyschological world. The Rosicrucians, however, repeatedly stressed the importance of their interactions with the physical, political world. So if you're not interested in understanding these people /on their own terms/ and want to play with Jung and his pyschosis, have at!

There you go misrepresenting things again.

Jung did not write Alchemical Studies as any sort of historical treatise. It was never his intention to do so.

But historically speaking, he did own the largest private collection of alchemical texts in the world. In fact, one text was named after him, namely the Jung Codex discovered at Nag Hammadi. He was fluent in many languages including Latin and Greek. There was not one significant treatise he wasn't familiar with, nor one significant alchemist he hadn't studied.

If you're going to contribute intelligently - and not appear foolish - you need to refresh your knowledge on all of this.

And yes, I'm sorry to say you've done it yet again. It's a bad habit you've got.

For reasons unknown to me you assume that you intimately know my knowledge base and that, consequently, I know nothing about Rosicrucians or understand them. I was trained in a Western mystery school for many years, whereas you have not been (that much is crystal clear). That was almost 40 years ago. I have also been trained in a number of other disciplines, including Jungian Analytical psychology by a leading English Jungian, now sadly deceased (although I am not an analyst).

You do not appear to know or comprehend that that many students of the mysteries eagerly adopted Jung's work, and not a few trained to become Jungian and/or Adlerian Analysts - because they saw a commonality between the two schools of thought (as do I). One example of this would be the late Israel Regardie who was trained in the Golden Dawn. Regardie was much taken by Jung's work and later advocated to his students that each should undergo analysis as a prelude to delving deeper into the mysteries. He also did what he preached and later in his life received a Master's degree in psychology and trained and practiced as an Adlerian Analyst. His book, The Philosopher's Stone, written in 1936-7, was a book about Alchemy written from a Jungian perspective.

I mean, is there any documentary, period evidence to back up these rather extraordinary architectural claims, or do we all just blithely accept the nameless, unquestionable Fulcanelli just luckily and intuitively divined these lost secrets from looking at cathedrals? Your claims of theoretical hot air stings both ways, here. Fulcanelli is right because... what, he tells you what you want to hear? Always the mark of keen criticism.

Well, you can go to any of the French cathedrals he references and see for yourself. I doubt you have done so. I have been to several.

Also, if you had read the two books under the Fulcanelli name and gathered other information surrounding him and his team, (of which there is a lot written) you'd know the answer to your own question about the writer's insights and understandings. This would/should lead you to dig back to the 1100's and onwards when the cathedrals were being built and decorated. You'd be able to discover who mainly paid for the decoration and why. It is the decoration that is the substantive key here. A good knowledge of the Qabalah would help too.

I myself have divined the secret school of Past Basset Knowledge from examining the patterns of basset hound droolmarks on the sidewalk, which is every bit as compelling as Fulcanelli.

Good for you. I suspect you've found your investigatory level...

I assume you'd be interested in my numerous (reasonably priced) e-texts on the subject?

You might want to bear in mind that most of the important knowledge is freely available on the internet these days. There's no requirement to cross anyones palms with silver. Attempts to do so is frowned upon and is generally considered to be the mark of the charlatan.

Edited by Jargogle Ergo
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding the cross at Hendaye.

There was a book written by Jay Weidner and Vincent Bridges called The Mysteries of the Grand Cross of Hendaye: Alchemy and the End of Time, in which the authors sought to explain that the end of world was predicted by Fulcanelli in his 2nd impression book that discussed that relic. The authors predicted the end was to arrive in 2012 and that they had found the sanctuary too survive the apocalypse. Readers may make up their own mind about the validity of the authors claims, but we can all attest to the fact the the world continues. Some might argue that their understanding was slight and/or mistakes about a particular passage written by the author.

On the identity of Fulcanelli. There are any number of theories about this. There is a great deal of allegory surrounding this subject. I suspect that Walter Lang who wrote the Introduction had guessed the truth - that there were several persons who worked together and contributed to the content, but only one actual writer because the style is consistent throughout.

On Leonardo's comments about Esoterica and the desire of looking forward to the past (post No. 16 above), I don't doubt this is true of many dabblers and puffers. The number of those wishing to eject their spittle and/or ejaculate into a retort which is then mixed with other obtuse ingredients is bewilderingly high. Others just wish to escape from todays cruel hardships. Even so, this form of escapism is far more harmless than numerous other contemporary activities I think -- smoking crack cocaine, for example.

However, for those who engage in a serious investigation, escapism is not at all the case. In my opinion of course. Nothing is guaranteed to bring you face to face with the hard surface of this day's reality than to decipher the journey of the alchemists by undertaking that journey. Other than a tax bill, obviously.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing I never understood about Alchemy, if the "introduction to the craft" for want of a better phrase is to transmute lead or another base metal into gold, then why aren't there any unaccountably rich people running around? If we assume most adepts are actually in it for the personal enlightenment there's still going to be the greedy soul here and there and yet ... nada. Barring one whose name escapes me, that is, who according to legend funded all sorts of things despite being dirt poor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 2

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.