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Br Cornelius

Trickle down economics is a lie, the proof !

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There are many reasons why French academic Thomas Piketty’s 685-page tome, “Capital in the 21st Century,” has vaulted to the top of the Amazon.com best seller list and is being discussed with equal fervor by the world’s top economic policy makers and middle class Americans who wonder why they haven’t gotten a raise in years. The main reason is that it proves, irrefutably and clearly, what we’ve all suspected for some time now—the rich ARE getting richer compared to everyone else, and their wealth isn’t trickling down. In fact, it’s trickling up.

http://time.com/73060/thomas-piketty-book/

Br Cornelius

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Who reads Time?

Let me ask you something . . . have the poor faired better under Obama then they did in the 80s?

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Posted (edited)

Who reads Time?

Let me ask you something . . . have the poor faired better under Obama then they did in the 80s?

This has nothing to do with time - it is an exhaustive study of the statistical economic facts carried out with data from 200 years of research.

Obama operates under exactly the same Neo-Liberal economic model which makes this situation inevitable, he just has slightly more discretion to redistribute. Let us not forget that Obama is still dealing with the fall out of a "Liberalized" economy from Regan through to Bush, but I am not going to defend Obama for not making fundamental reforms to a system which places you on a one way course to revolution - he is a product of the economic assumptions which created the mess in the first place.

When it comes down to it, trickle down economics was a lie used to cover the fact that the Neo_liberal economists were selling a system which served their self interest - not the interests of society. What I am asking you to consider is the evidence, presented in the book, that under the Neo-Liberal economic model it is inevitable that the poor will get relatively poorer and the rich will get relatively richer. This is now a statistically proven fact.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius
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Posted (edited)

Who reads Time?

Let me ask you something . . . have the poor faired better under Obama then they did in the 80s?

No. Of course not... both The poor and The middle class have been losing ground since about 1970 .. from my own observations.

i've also observed that Presidents, in my lifetime anyway, are salesmen of policies .. not creators.

I always imagined Bush Senior and his vice president Jelly Bean Reagan, laughing their Arses off at the term "trickle down economics" because they knew full well that it meant P on "us" economics.

and yes he did. ... (before someone mentions Bush senior calling Trickle down economics.."voodoo" economics)

Edited by lightly
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I think Whitelight's defintiely trolling. One administration has nothing to do with the trend over time. I think the question here is how can we reverse the trend? I have my theories, but no one's going to like them. Too many people are comfortable with the status quo. And like Br hinted at, it might take a revolution to change things.

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I think Whitelight's defintiely trolling. One administration has nothing to do with the trend over time. I think the question here is how can we reverse the trend? I have my theories, but no one's going to like them. Too many people are comfortable with the status quo. And like Br hinted at, it might take a revolution to change things.

Many might be interested to hear your theories / ideas ? I would anyway.

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We dont manufacture anything anymore. There is no incentive for a trickle down economy in America from the rich folks POV. Stop allowing imports for 90% of our goods, and things change overnight.

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Many might be interested to hear your theories / ideas ? I would anyway.

To put it mildly, socialism of a sort. Eventually we will all be competing for jobs with robots. Ones that make us inefficient. What's going to happen once that starts up? There will have to be a complete overhaul of our global economic systems, as a whole lot of people won't be earning money...or perhaps humans will become the cheap labor force...or perhaps I've been reading too many sci-fi books.

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Posted (edited)

*snickers*

I always felt "Trickle down economics" was the super rich p!ssing on the heads of the poor and telling them it was raining...

I am making a funny over here....don't have a meltdown...

It's not a lie...it just doesn't work as it's supposed to...

Kinda like "free market capitalism"...beautifully perfect in theory...but when cronyism slips in...it doesn't work so well.

Edited by Jeremiah65
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We dont manufacture anything anymore. There is no incentive for a trickle down economy in America from the rich folks POV. Stop allowing imports for 90% of our goods, and things change overnight.

Trickle down, regardless if manufacturing or otherwise, implies that the majority earn more than they need and therefore can save some.

That has not been the case since the 70s.

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For those folks who need to be reminded the Topic is Trickle Down Economics - if you want to compare current administrations to those of the past start a topic on it.

I would also like to remind some members that we have rules regarding flamebaiting, trolling and ad hom commentary about fellow members.

Back to the topic at hand all.

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We dont manufacture anything anymore. There is no incentive for a trickle down economy in America from the rich folks POV. Stop allowing imports for 90% of our goods, and things change overnight.

It's not so much "allowing" 90% of our goods to be imported as it is a result of bad planning.

We did need to clean up pollution...so we made regulations that are expensive to implement. We kept on adding expensive regulations and it became cheaper for companies to move production somewhere else. It was a poorly thought out thing we did because the pollution is still going on just not directly over our country. Then....came NAFTA and the rest is pretty much a sad history.

We "should" lay on some serious tariffs against the goods coming in from countries that have no EPA regulations or pay slave wages...but we don't...and the primary reason for that is because wealthy "globalists" like being able to sell cheap crap made in polluted countries with slave wage workers. So they lobbied to keep that door open.

I'd love to open up a business that actually "made something". But say....if I wanted to make hammers...the cost to make my hammer would be probably about the same as the sale price of a hammer made in Asia. Not a good scenario. Now I might make the best damn hammer in the world and some people will buy it purely for the quality...but most folks would say "it's just a d@mn hammer" and buy the cheapest one.

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Well said, Jeremiah. Although I agree with the findings of the study (and accompanying book) described by Br. C., the alleviation of this problem seems an overwhelming proposition. "Trickle-down economics" has always been a scam and a sham. I wouldn't want to see a revolution in the US for fear of how it might affect my children and grandchildren, but it might be the only answer.

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if i understand the idea as it was sold... trickle down is supposed to work for the benefit of all by allowing/facilitating growth at the "top" in the belief that this unbridled wealth would trickle down in the form of investment in expansions/growth, in whatever, which would create jobs HERE. ?

That hasn't happened.

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if i understand the idea as it was sold... trickle down is supposed to work for the benefit of all by allowing/facilitating growth at the "top" in the belief that this unbridled wealth would trickle down in the form of investment in expansions/growth, in whatever, which would create jobs HERE. ?

That hasn't happened.

Nor will it. As long as earnings get invested on Wall Street instead of corporate improvements and people earn just slightly less than what allows them to have a comfortable life (with decreasing tendency) the money will flow only one way: to the top.

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Trickle down was basically the idea if the affluent have lots of money, they will spend it frivolously and in doing so, provide a whole plethora of "service" jobs.

Boat painters and cleaners...pool boys, golf course superintendents and workers....etc...etc...etc. Basically, jobs that provide service to people with way more money than common sense....

It has not worked out that way. The wealthy are NOT spending their money as frivolously as people thought they would. This plan only works when someone, somewhere throws caution to the wind and just lives large for the moment.

I "get" the principle but it is not really based on past practice. Most wealthy people are not stupid and when the economy teeters to and fro...they hold on to their money instead of throwing lavish parties for no apparent reason....if they are NOT spending their money like water through a sieve...the the concept just does not work.

The best thing folks can do is get creative and imaginative. Instead of bemoaning the wealth of the few....come up with a service or product that those very few will want more than anything...instead of using the iron fist of GOV to take their wealth away for re-distribution...create a "thing" that they will throw their money at you to have or possess....that is free market capitalism at it's finest hour...

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Trickle down was basically the idea if the affluent have lots of money, they will spend it frivolously and in doing so, provide a whole plethora of "service" jobs.

Boat painters and cleaners...pool boys, golf course superintendents and workers....etc...etc...etc. Basically, jobs that provide service to people with way more money than common sense....

It has not worked out that way. The wealthy are NOT spending their money as frivolously as people thought they would. This plan only works when someone, somewhere throws caution to the wind and just lives large for the moment.

I "get" the principle but it is not really based on past practice. Most wealthy people are not stupid and when the economy teeters to and fro...they hold on to their money instead of throwing lavish parties for no apparent reason....if they are NOT spending their money like water through a sieve...the the concept just does not work.

The best thing folks can do is get creative and imaginative. Instead of bemoaning the wealth of the few....come up with a service or product that those very few will want more than anything...instead of using the iron fist of GOV to take their wealth away for re-distribution...create a "thing" that they will throw their money at you to have or possess....that is free market capitalism at it's finest hour...

free market capitalism would include that anybody can make anything... regardless of who made it first. Some on the top (especially the Apple company) would certainly have something against that.

But yes, that would work.

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I believe it was a sales gimmick to sugar coat the pill of letting the rich get away with murder.

Br Cornelius

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Seems to me that its impossible to solve this mess without a well thought out revolution. This is especially so since almost none of the economists with influence are even prepared to admit we have a problem and its root causes. It will undoubtedly be another fight to the death and we can only hope that the b****** baby gets slaughtered once and for all this time.

Br Cornelius

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Seems to me that its impossible to solve this mess without a well thought out revolution. This is especially so since almost none of the economists with influence are even prepared to admit we have a problem and its root causes. It will undoubtedly be another fight to the death and we can only hope that the b****** baby gets slaughtered once and for all this time.

Br Cornelius

Big brother will have you on a no fly list talking like that BR

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Big brother will have you on a no fly list talking like that BR

If I ain't there already then I have nothing to worry about :tu:

Br Cornelius

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Trickle down economics has worked and does work. This book is only selling because it feeds liberals what they want to hear instead of fact.

Throughout history, capital accumulation has yielded growth in living standards that people in earlier centuries could not have imagined, let alone predicted — and it wasn’t just the owners of capital who benefited. Future capital accumulation may or may not increase the capital share of output; it may or may not widen inequality. If it does, that’s a bad thing, and governments should act. But even if it does, it won’t matter as much as whether and how quickly wages and living standards rise.

Once again, this is just another "problem" that somehow can only be solved by stealing wealth from one group of people and giving it to another. Weird, that every single problem in the world can be solved that way, huh?

Seems to me that its impossible to solve this mess without a well thought out revolution. This is especially so since almost none of the economists with influence are even prepared to admit we have a problem and its root causes. It will undoubtedly be another fight to the death and we can only hope that the b****** baby gets slaughtered once and for all this time.

Br Cornelius

Who do you think you are revolting against, if more government is your only answer for everything?

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Keep it simple

Let everyone keep their own money.

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Posted (edited)

Trickle down economics has worked and does work. This book is only selling because it feeds liberals what they want to hear instead of fact.

The book is a statistical analysis of how Neo-Liberal economics concentrates wealth in the hands of a few. It is not pandering to anything - it is offering a proof. If you disagree with the proof then deconstruct it and show how wealth has not concentrated to a few. You will not be able to because the data clearly shows it has.

Throughout history, capital accumulation has yielded growth in living standards that people in earlier centuries could not have imagined, let alone predicted — and it wasn’t just the owners of capital who benefited. Future capital accumulation may or may not increase the capital share of output; it may or may not widen inequality. If it does, that’s a bad thing, and governments should act. But even if it does, it won’t matter as much as whether and how quickly wages and living standards rise.

The general overall wealth of the economy has indeed increase - but the uneven distribution of wealth between the population has increase also. The two are not mutually exclusive facts.

Once again, this is just another "problem" that somehow can only be solved by stealing wealth from one group of people and giving it to another. Weird, that every single problem in the world can be solved that way, huh?

This is a problem with the rules of economic engagement which favour one group over another. The rules need to change such that the nations economic activity benefits the nation as a whole and not just a tiny number of individuals who are quite often not even domiciled in the country. i wouldn't be prescriptive about what that would look like - but it definitely is a problem which need solving. History shows that if it is allowed to continue getting worse a revolution is all but inevitable.

Who do you think you are revolting against, if more government is your only answer for everything?

A system which allows one part of the population to treat the rest as virtual slaves.

The flaw in your position boils down to your belief that the economic rules we use are a reflection of the natural order - when in fact it is a set of man made rules designed by men to further their own interests. We can choose to apply any economic rules we like and it is the job of us to make certain that they are the best for all people involved. That is the revolution I seek.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius
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