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Helen of Annoy

Octogoat

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http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/goat-born-eight-legs-both-3507780

This extraordinary baby goat has EIGHT legs and both male and female reproductive organs.

"I counted his legs and I thought I was seeing things. Then I called my neighbour to make sure that I am not crazy."

And with video (warning: baby goat doesn't feel so good and may not survive)

http://www.24sata.hr/sokantno/ojarilo-se-jare-s-osam-nogu-mislio-sam-da-mi-se-privia-364499

Zoran Paparic says he wishes the kid survives, he would keep him/her as a pet.

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Did the hatopus have anything to do with this?

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Posted (edited)

Poor thing. It is true, it doesn't look like it feels too well at all.

What gets me is how this guy calls this poor creature a "miracle of nature", it is anything BUT a miracle. It is an aberration and I think it is a crime to keep this poor thing alive just so the owner can have the novelty of saying he has an eight legged goat.

As a partial quote from Scar from FullMetal Alchemist said:

"You poor thing, you're a sin against nature and your body is in so much pain......"

P.S: Edited to add that this article could also could be a hoax too.

Edited by Ryu
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Poor thing. It is true, it doesn't look like it feels too well at all.

What gets me is how this guy calls this poor creature a "miracle of nature", it is anything BUT a miracle. It is an aberration and I think it is a crime to keep this poor thing alive just so the owner can have the novelty of saying he has an eight legged goat.

As a partial quote from Scar from FullMetal Alchemist said:

"You poor thing, you're a sin against nature and your body is in so much pain......"

P.S: Edited to add that this article could also could be a hoax too.

No, it’s not a hoax. We have no resources for elaborate hoaxes :D A farmer paying for animatronic goat would be bigger miracle than a goat with eight legs.

I also don’t think farmer wants the baby goat to survive because he could say he owns a freak goat, I think he simply wants a little freak to make it and would keep it as a pet because it beat the odds.

If it’s cruelty or not, only baby goat knows. Maybe it wants to live too. There were human children with underdeveloped conjoined twin and they complained of no actual pain, though they had obvious problems with finding right clothes.

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I also don’t think farmer wants the baby goat to survive because he could say he owns a freak goat, I think he simply wants a little freak to make it and would keep it as a pet because it beat the odds.

Umm..didn't you just kind of contradict yourself there? He wants a freak for the attention.

If it’s cruelty or not, only baby goat knows. Maybe it wants to live too. There were human children with underdeveloped conjoined twin and they complained of no actual pain, though they had obvious problems with finding right clothes.

Humans, in general, seem to have a better chance of survival ONLY because of our technology and uor genral willingness to devote more resources and time trying to ensure survival. Goats have no technology and often the mother will reject it simply because it seems to sense that it's chances of survival are next to nil and won't bother trying to nurse it; I doubt the poor thing would want to live its life trying to battle with eight legs anyways. These guys have a hard enough time trying to manage four as it is.

Furthermore the strain on its nervous system trying to maneuver with more legs than it is adapted to initially handle is going to invariable cause it pain.

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Awww....that's sad even to look at. Poor wee goat :(

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Umm..didn't you just kind of contradict yourself there? He wants a freak for the attention.

Beat the nature’s odds, in case I wasn’t clear enough the first time. No one betted on kid’s survival, though the vet is not optimistic.

Also, if we are going to read people’s minds, then I assure you I can read my countrymen’s minds much more accurately than you.

When we want a living being to survive, we want that because of that living being. When you want attention you dance drunk on the table. And it better not involve any goats.

Humans, in general, seem to have a better chance of survival ONLY because of our technology and uor genral willingness to devote more resources and time trying to ensure survival. Goats have no technology and often the mother will reject it simply because it seems to sense that it's chances of survival are next to nil and won't bother trying to nurse it; I doubt the poor thing would want to live its life trying to battle with eight legs anyways. These guys have a hard enough time trying to manage four as it is.

Furthermore the strain on its nervous system trying to maneuver with more legs than it is adapted to initially handle is going to invariable cause it pain.

Nope. Most children with similar problem in India had no resources spent on them, unless someone felt guilty enough to finance the surgery.

The kid will obviously be bottle fed, since it can’t stand up. Yet. Now I’m in the mood to bet it will damn survive and I’d bottle feed it if I was closer.

Because I think it's selfish and immoral to whack them all because you think their lives suck. Well, my life sucks too, physical pain included, but I’m living it out of spite. It’s not up to you to decide who has to go, when and how.

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Based on the information I would say it is fraternal twins where the egg did not separate properly

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Poor kid.

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Posted (edited)

Is this an evolutionary step, those mountain climbing Goats trying to get the edge on mating rivals by developing Spider-like limbs and abilities to get higher up and be King of the Hill?

Great post Helen :)

Edit: I am getting worried about your relationship with 8 limbed animals Helen, is this the Hatopus of the future? A genetically modified freak for your own head-warming needs.... a Goatapus?

Edited by Junior Chubb
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Is this an evolutionary step, those mountain climbing Goats trying to get the edge on mating rivals by developing Spider-like limbs and abilities to get higher up and be King of the Hill?

Great post Helen :)

Edit: I am getting worried about your relationship with 8 limbed animals Helen, is this the Hatopus of the future? A genetically modified freak for your own head-warming needs.... a Goatapus?

Goatapus is not half as disgusting as the Hatopus, so I’m keeping the Hatopus.

Now, do you all mind if I rant for a while?

Poor kid, indeed, I’m sorry it was malformed. Or to be more precise, I’m sorry its sibling didn’t form right and they merged like that.

Just to make it clear: I agree that if kid rejects milk then it would be wrong to let it suffer any longer.

But if it has appetite, it might live and grow strong enough to stand on its own. Why wouldn’t it live with 8 legs? Who can tell how many more or less legs make us lose our will to live? Isn’t that personal? Some people want to die after losing a leg, others climb Everest on prosthetic legs... there’s no rule.

Yes, I know I just mixed people and animals, as well as excess and loss of legs, but what are we but animals with too complicated social rituals.

What annoys me... no, it horrifies me that killing an animal (and now people too) is the first thought as soon as there’s any problem evident. Yes, underdeveloped conjoined twin is damn serious issue and may kill an animal, or child, but what happened to giving a chance first? Trying to help first? Why is everyone giving up so easily these days?

Euthanasia should be the last resort, not routine first choice.

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Goatapus is not half as disgusting as the Hatopus, so I’m keeping the Hatopus.

Now, do you all mind if I rant for a while?

Poor kid, indeed, I’m sorry it was malformed. Or to be more precise, I’m sorry its sibling didn’t form right and they merged like that.

Just to make it clear: I agree that if kid rejects milk then it would be wrong to let it suffer any longer.

But if it has appetite, it might live and grow strong enough to stand on its own. Why wouldn’t it live with 8 legs? Who can tell how many more or less legs make us lose our will to live? Isn’t that personal? Some people want to die after losing a leg, others climb Everest on prosthetic legs... there’s no rule.

Yes, I know I just mixed people and animals, as well as excess and loss of legs, but what are we but animals with too complicated social rituals.

What annoys me... no, it horrifies me that killing an animal (and now people too) is the first thought as soon as there’s any problem evident. Yes, underdeveloped conjoined twin is damn serious issue and may kill an animal, or child, but what happened to giving a chance first? Trying to help first? Why is everyone giving up so easily these days?

Euthanasia should be the last resort, not routine first choice.

Fair point well made Helen. I would think in most of the cases you have mentioned people are doing what is easiest for themselves, removing the problem. I cannot agree with you more, the chance of life should be given but often the people making the decisions are making them from a different point of view to ourselves. To a farmer a Goat is a piece of stock, a deformed goat is damaged stock and it gets chucked out with the trash, emotions are removed from the situation.

BTW its refreshing to read one of your rants without getting banned at the end of it. ;)

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Based on the information I would say it is fraternal twins where the egg did not separate properly

Fraternal twins develop from two individual eggs fertilised by two individual sperm..

The most likely theory for this poor creature is that it had started out as an embryonic twin pregnancy and one embryo has partially enveloped the other creating a parasitic twin.

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You know, I just watched the video and it is really heart breaking. This thing made no attempts to move and I doubt it is even able to move any of its limbs even a tiny bit, it wouldn't even move its head. All it can do is lay in a limp pile, breathing weakly.

This is hardly humane.

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You can’t just kill anyone who’s not hopping merrily around, you have to try to help them first.

Sick or seriously injured animals and people are not a pretty sight but the answer is certainly not killing them right away, so they don’t disturb you.

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You can’t just kill anyone who’s not hopping merrily around, you have to try to help them first.

Sick or seriously injured animals and people are not a pretty sight but the answer is certainly not killing them right away, so they don’t disturb you.

A newborn goat will at least move its head a little, most animals move at least in tiny bits but when the man picked it up it was so limp that at first I thought it was dead.

It is not a matter of being disturbed but of being concerned that this animal could very well spend its meager life as a goat shaped puddle. I never said it should be killed but even from a biological standpoint, this thing can barely breathe and since it looked to be more than thirty minutes old it should have been able to at least lift its head.

Look, I love animals just as much as you do and I would want to do as much as I can for them too but in this case, I just don't see much hope. All one can do is keep it warm, comfy and feed it if it will take it and then let nature take its course.

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Humans are inhumane, they shoot horses which break legs,chop off dog's tails, clip birds wings,euthanise unwanted animal pets, experiment on rodents and monkeys/chimps all in the name of progress, and kill our own kind Isn't it great to be part of the Human race.

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I wonder if the little one can walk..I haven't seen footage of it standing up or walking..the poor little thing was so limp when the guy was holding it,it made me cry..I agree with Ryu who only sounds like they're concerned for the animal's well being,which it doesn't look well at all..it IS humane to put down an animal that is suffering..spud,would you want to see that poor baby suffer and then die?This is not a matter of "oh,kill the thing,it's just a waste of space",THAT is horrid..putting this little one down is a matter of empathy if in fact it isn't healthy..if it is healthy,then no,it should most definitely not be put down..but it was so limp when that guy was holding it,and it just laid there like a puddle..most humans ARE inhumane,that is true,but if people would really think about it,would you want to see this little one suffer because YOU aren't comfortable with it being put down if it's not healthy?THAT is inhumane..

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Just like any other middle-aged person, I’ve seen quite a lot of suffering by now, in real life, and all sorts of reactions to it. There are decisions I regret less and those I regret more, but each is haunting me in a way.

Poor little octo-goat is not a problem, if it accepted milk it meant it can and wants to live so it lives and will be a pet. Great. If not, it probably passed away soon enough there was no need for “mercy”. That was this particular case. Not a rule.

Like I said before, but will gladly repeat, there are no rules. Sometimes, on very rare and tragic occasions, putting a living being down is mercy. Most of times, it’s not mercy, it’s just utter selfishness. We are being told we should think we can’t be held back by the non-perfect ones.

So we’re killing the sick, injured or malformed animals, the old, the ugly, those that are not within requirements of the breed, and now we’re being told we should be “merciful” towards humans too.

While I’m aware there are tragic situations where death can’t come soon enough, it is not the case with most of people who are in increasing danger of being subjected to “mercy”. What an utterly hypocritical name for the desire to cut the expenses or just get rid of the "burden".

Back to goats. There is a farmer in the article, a man who certainly can be “merciful” but wants to be truly merciful and give a chance to a malformed – therefore useless from farming point of view - baby goat.

What’s the rush?

Who instilled that unnatural need in so many of you to off a living being as soon as it was evident it’s not perfect?

Believe it or not, most animals and people have so called survival instinct and they don’t want to die.

Actually, most of imperfect people would be quite saddened, offended and scared with growing need to “help” them out of their imperfection. People in intensive care hardly breathe, some of them have machines do that for them... yes, some won’t ever again breathe on their own but it is a tough decision to pull a plug and it should remain a tough decision. Never, ever a routine.

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I really doubt that poor creature will live very long, given how little it is moving. It's a bit cruel, honestly....

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Posted (edited)

Helen...I admire your tenacity to want what is best for the animal and whether you accept what I say or not, I do too however this extreme love can also be blinders too.

In the case of this baby goat, it lay on the ground as if it was dead. It did not move one iota, not an ear, tail, nose....t is clear that it will never walk and all it did was lay in a goat shaped puddle and breathed weakly.

Also..farms are not petting zoos. They are there to ensure survival of those who own it and that sometimes means weeding out those that are going to be a financial drain. When people have farms, they don't have the time nor resources to ensure the survival of every lost cause.

I have said it before, keep the thing warm and dry and let nature run its course. This is not about humans, it is about a goat, even if it was a pet there has to come a time when you need to ask yourself, who are you really doing this for, yourself or the animal?

Also..animals on farms die every day, excess dogs and cats are killed, cows, sheep, chickens and pigs are butchered and processed and sometimes if one of the young is born with untenable defects then it is eliminated because a farm cannot afford the time or money to keep it alive nor can they risk having these defects passed on to the next generation. It is harsh but that is the way it is.

I hate to say it but when it comes to spending immense amounts of resources to save a life, humans need to come first.

What makes you think that this baby goat wants to continue living like a puddle? It could very well be in pain too considering its tiny nervous system cannot handle all those limbs while trying to maintain bodily functions as well.

To think that one day it is just going to get up and move all eight of those legs like it was nothing is a fantasy. Not every life can nor should be saved.

Edited by Ryu
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It's breathing looked really bad. Had it been a wild goat the mother goat would have walked away and nature would have taken it's course. I think feeding it is just prolonging death and is cruel.

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I incubate chicken eggs once or twice a year. 2 years ago one that hatched had deformed feet. The legs on this chick looked like they were on backwords and made of rubber. After a couple days I was ready to just break it's neck and put it out of its misery. My daughter talked me out of it. It tried to use it's wings to crawl but they were too small and weak. A week went by where my daughter or myself would put its head ito the water and pull it out and let it swallow. I started to hobble a little on one leg. We still had to move it from water to food. 2 months later it was getting around pretty good on it's own. The legs were still deformed and it moved much slower than the other chickens. It ended up hanging out with the next batch I hatched. Never caught up with its own batch. After 6 months, it started laying eggs like the others. Not too bad. It was living a good life until last fall when a raccoon got it. I then shot the raccoon.

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Posted (edited)

Helen...I admire your tenacity to want what is best for the animal and whether you accept what I say or not, I do too however this extreme love can also be blinders too.

In the case of this baby goat, it lay on the ground as if it was dead. It did not move one iota, not an ear, tail, nose....t is clear that it will never walk and all it did was lay in a goat shaped puddle and breathed weakly.

No, it’s not clear what will be. It is clear the kid has potentially deadly issue, but even the vet said it’s not likely it will survive. Not that it’s hopeless.

I’m great fun of giving chance to the hopeless too.

Also..farms are not petting zoos. They are there to ensure survival of those who own it and that sometimes means weeding out those that are going to be a financial drain. When people have farms, they don't have the time nor resources to ensure the survival of every lost cause.

I have said it before, keep the thing warm and dry and let nature run its course. This is not about humans, it is about a goat, even if it was a pet there has to come a time when you need to ask yourself, who are you really doing this for, yourself or the animal?

One funny shaped goat is no drain. I’m sure octopod would be loved and where’s there’s food for all others, there’s for one more.

Humans or animals, the principles are the same. And what we do for or to others, we eventually do to ourselves. It’s not a philosophy, it’s how it works, what goes around, comes around.

Also..animals on farms die every day, excess dogs and cats are killed, cows, sheep, chickens and pigs are butchered and processed and sometimes if one of the young is born with untenable defects then it is eliminated because a farm cannot afford the time or money to keep it alive nor can they risk having these defects passed on to the next generation. It is harsh but that is the way it is.

One of angles to this story is: Saving a freak, a loser, is like slapping the cruel life back in the face.

Precisely because there are hundreds of thousands of animals processed before and after their industrialized death, there must be places left on this earth where a simple man can simply decide to say “**** the profit” and have a pet instead.

I hate to say it but when it comes to spending immense amounts of resources to save a life, humans need to come first.

What makes you think that this baby goat wants to continue living like a puddle? It could very well be in pain too considering its tiny nervous system cannot handle all those limbs while trying to maintain bodily functions as well.

Google a bit, see the child from India that lived with fused underdeveloped twin for seven or so years. The child was otherwise healthy, walking, playing, learning and did what kids do apart from having extra pair of limbs dangling from its abdomen.

I think he had surgery at last, which is great, but the point is you’re wrong about necessary fusion of nervous systems. In fact, most likely the goat won’t have control over limbs of its parasitic twin.

How the spine will handle excess limbs is more serious question, but you do not get to promote euthanasia of animals with bad back, because I’m one of them and god help you if you come near me to ease my suffering ;)

To think that one day it is just going to get up and move all eight of those legs like it was nothing is a fantasy. Not every life can nor should be saved.

No one expects that. The best scenario is that kid survives, grows up into a goat that can hop around on all four of its own limbs, with parasitic twin limbs underdevelped by lack of use, which would be good news since they wouldn’t be that heavy or getting in the way.

Sometimes a life can’t be saved, sometimes it’s just wasted because of laziness, stupidity and selfishness.

It's breathing looked really bad.

Yup, not very likely to survive.

Had it been a wild goat the mother goat would have walked away and nature would have taken it's course.

But it’s not wild goat, the breed exists because of the humans and because of our greed it was selected to produce as many kids by pregnancy as possible. Or impossible. Poor mother goat delivers triplets each time, and this is quite likely why fused twins happened.

I think feeding it is just prolonging death and is cruel.

Doesn’t have to be so. I mentioned up there in this post what happens to parasitic twin limbs as the animal grows up. Also, I’m not sure if the kid accepted food. Maybe nature sorted out what humans screwed up.

Edited by Helen of Annoy
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Google a bit, see the child from India that lived with fused underdeveloped twin for seven or so years. The child was otherwise healthy, walking, playing, learning and did what kids do apart from having extra pair of limbs dangling from its abdomen.

I think he had surgery at last, which is great, but the point is you’re wrong about necessary fusion of nervous systems.

This is hardly a comparison and I don't know why you keep bringing up human examples.

This is about a goat, not a human and while I love animals too, they do not have the same value as a human. I certainly do not advocate cruelty and if you can help an animal that is within the means of being saved then fine.

But on a farm, there is tons of work to be done and no one is going to have the time to spend watching over this thing and from what I can see, it is going to need as much care as a bed-ridden human.

Even if this thing was to manage to get up, it is burdened with the task of dragging around useless limbs that will only serve to get in the way and increase its chances of getting injured.

Yes, animals are adaptable but there is a limit to that too. Even in the wild such an aberration won't be tolerated for long and since goats are herd animals and move a lot..I doubt the rest of the herd is going to wait around for a goatling as it drags itself along.

Whatever. It won't live long, fortunately.

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