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Life in space


qxcontinuum

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Actually it said that heavy molecules do not escaping into space on their own energy, except hydrogen and helium. And what I wrote was the occasionally there will be exceptions to this rule, and organic molecules, even small microbes, could escape into space. Do you believe that absolutely zero O2 escapes? Over thousands of years... zero O2 escapes? There is never a meteor, or a solar flare, or a rocket launch, which adds extra energy into a section of atmosphere which speeds up molecules and sends some heavier ones out into space?

The velocity of any type of molecule in the atmosphere can be expressed as a bell curve, but there are going to be some individual molecules that are way out on the edge of the curve. Some will effectively not be moving at all, and some will exceed escape velocity. This might be only one molecule per day, or month, or decade, but it does happen.

No. I don't think bacteria or anything considered as living can "float" off into space sometimes. I think you assume it should happen and I think your assumption is wrong.

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H2O is slowly being lost mainly because things like cosmic rays hit a molecule and knock off the hydrogen at high energy which then escapes into space. This leads to estimates of the dessication of the earth in a couple billion years.

As far as microbes in space, one should remember that the boundary between the atmosphere and space is not completely stable; that things like solar flares can cause chunks of air to escape and even otherwise thi

Then how did Earth's Oceans survive the last 4.6 GY's? Are you saying that there was twice as much water 2 billion years ago? There is no evidence for that.

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No. I don't think bacteria or anything considered as living can "float" off into space sometimes. I think you assume it should happen and I think your assumption is wrong.

I didn't see where it could not happen while I was researching the issue. Given, I did not dig down for hours and hours or take a college course, but I did find that the exosphere, which reaches almost to the Moon, includes CO2 and O2 molecules, which someone said stay exclusively down in the lower atmosphere....

If CO2 can get into the exosphere then maybe CH4 (methane) can also. And if that can get up there, then why not Propane or Butane? Obviously if CO2 can get into space (And the exosphere is basically space) then something that is weight compatable surely can too. And in special situations heavier molecules could also.

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Then how did Earth's Oceans survive the last 4.6 GY's? Are you saying that there was twice as much water 2 billion years ago? There is no evidence for that.

What I read last night while I was looking here and there, was that as much as 25% of our world's water molecules have been lost. Mostly due to hydrogen loss to space.

http://sciencenordic.com/earth-has-lost-quarter-its-water

The amount of water on the planet has not always been the same, however. A research group at the Natural History Museum of Denmark has discovered this by measuring how hydrogen isotope ratios in the oceans have changed over time.
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I didn't see where it could not happen while I was researching the issue. Given, I did not dig down for hours and hours or take a college course, but I did find that the exosphere, which reaches almost to the Moon, includes CO2 and O2 molecules, which someone said stay exclusively down in the lower atmosphere....

If CO2 can get into the exosphere then maybe CH4 (methane) can also. And if that can get up there, then why not Propane or Butane? Obviously if CO2 can get into space (And the exosphere is basically space) then something that is weight compatable surely can too. And in special situations heavier molecules could also.

You are assuming that those molecules originate from the sufacfe of Earth. They don't. They accumulate as the Earth and Moon orbit the Sun and every year pass through a number of old and relatively new Comet paths.

Remember that these are relatively heavy molecules so they get trapped by Earth's gravity, as opposed to "floating" away from Earth's surface.

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What I read last night while I was looking here and there, was that as much as 25% of our world's water molecules have been lost. Mostly due to hydrogen loss to space.

http://sciencenordic.com/earth-has-lost-quarter-its-water

The young Earth had no free Oxygen. Then after life was established some microbobes began the process of photosynthesis which broke dowm water molecules and Oxygen was a waste product. The Oceans were saturated with Iron and the Oxygen reacted with the Iron to form iron oxide which sinks in Ocean water. After millions of years when all the iron is gone fron the Oceans Oxygen ends up saturating the atmosphere. At that point the Hydrogen isotope ratio of the Oceans stablizes.

Its not because the Oceans boiled away its because early life broke the water molecules apart and the Oxygen reacted with iron in the Ocean water and sunk to the seafloor.

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The young Earth had no free Oxygen. Then after life was established some microbobes began the process of photosynthesis which broke dowm water molecules and Oxygen was a waste product. The Oceans were saturated with Iron and the Oxygen reacted with the Iron to form iron oxide which sinks in Ocean water. After millions of years when all the iron is gone fron the Oceans Oxygen ends up saturating the atmosphere. At that point the Hydrogen isotope ratio of the Oceans stablizes.

Its not because the Oceans boiled away its because early life broke the water molecules apart and the Oxygen reacted with iron in the Ocean water and sunk to the seafloor.

Is that still not evidence of "Disappearing water"? Did the hydrogen not get lost to space? My statement is thus true.

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Is that still not evidence of "Disappearing water"? Did the hydrogen not get lost to space? My statement is thus true.

Your premise is wrong. It was not H2O escaping into space. It was Oxygen liberated from H2O reacting with Iron that accounts for your "disappearing water".

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Ah the oxygen reacts with practically anything it can, replacing whatever else is there. That we have free oxygen in the atmosphere is of course mainly because of plants constantly replenishing the supply.

The loss of water is happening. The hydrogen that is freed when something like a cosmic ray hits a water molecule high up in the atmosphere also gets a lot of energy (in the form of moving much faster) from the collision and escapes into space. The oxygen is being replaced, the water is not.

This is a slow process and we have a lot of water, so billions of years will pass before it causes serious problems. Also, I read recently that deep in the earth there may be huge reservoirs of water that future people could tap to delay the problem by further billions of years.

As far as microbes escaping into near space, it is possible but what I found in my research was nothing about it, so it would seem the question has not been studied -- I would guess because the experts don't think it likely. This is a change in my opinion from what I said earlier so don't someone come at me saying I contradict myself.

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Your premise is wrong. It was not H2O escaping into space. It was Oxygen liberated from H2O reacting with Iron that accounts for your "disappearing water".

You're argument against me is wrongful. Go back and read what I posted. I said the water was gone. And that Hydrogen lose to space was probably the cause. No where did I say actual H2O was going into space. THAT you put into my statement your own self.

Edited by DieChecker
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I was reading the other day ( and i am glad i did) that out there is space. If a human walks out without a suit and holding his breath for 30 -40 seconds. Exactly nothing bad will happen to him.

Holding your breath will cause major issues with the pressure change. Eg. Hold your breath while ascending from a scuba dive (each ~10 meters/33 feet is 1 bar of pressure) and you can run into all kinds of problems.

His eyes won't be sucked out, or his blood, like in hollywood movies. It is not even extremely cold as we expected to be. He might get sun burns if touched by sun lights. My normal question then is...

Another article was saying that you can simply take a dormant insect (winter hibernation), put her in a box, transport her on a planet like Mars and release her. She will wake up from hibernation but die right away because of the actual conditions.

So my point is now more then ever i believe that is it so easy to propagate-life in space through meteorites and celestial bodies carrying cells, atoms and dna.

Atoms or DNA are a bit different than a human body.

Edit: Found an interesting 1997 'Ask an Astrophysicist' article on the subject: http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/970603.html

Edited by Timonthy
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You're argument against me is wrongful. Go back and read what I posted. I said the water was gone. And that Hydrogen lose to space was probably the cause. No where did I say actual H2O was going into space. THAT you put into my statement your own self.

Excuse me but your point was that living microbes could "float" into space! Your point was never that a bit of light Hydrogen escapes!

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Excuse me but your point was that living microbes could "float" into space! Your point was never that a bit of light Hydrogen escapes!

Agreed. That was one of my points. And possibly true.

BUT.... Your post was....

Your premise is wrong. It was not H2O escaping into space. It was Oxygen liberated from H2O reacting with Iron that accounts for your "disappearing water".

Which references H2O, not microbes. And the H20 point was brought up separately from the microbes. Thus I responded that my previous post referenced water disappearing and hydrogen going into space, which you said was not evidenced. And then later posted the evidence yourself. Water did disappear.

What I read last night while I was looking here and there, was that as much as 25% of our world's water molecules have been lost. Mostly due to hydrogen loss to space.

http://sciencenordic...arter-its-water

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Well one is a simple molecule, while a microbe is maybe a million times heavier. A little easier for one than the other. Still, zap something with a fast moving cosmic ray (some of these are really moving along) and it is likely to get enough energy to go flying into space. Of course it would likely be pieces, not a whole organism, and odds are it would eventually drift back. Hydrogen so removed will zip well away and never return.

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Agreed. That was one of my points. And possibly true.

BUT.... Your post was....

Which references H2O, not microbes. And the H20 point was brought up separately from the microbes. Thus I responded that my previous post referenced water disappearing and hydrogen going into space, which you said was not evidenced. And then later posted the evidence yourself. Water did disappear.

Seriously, read through the thread again! I never once said Hydrogren couldn't escape. I said CO2 and H2O were to heavy and that microbes were 11 orders of magnitude heavier!You said the Oceans would boil away in a billion years and I said you were wrong. Now you are saying 25% of Earth's water "disappeared" but you don't understand that didn't involve H2O "floating" off into space which is what you wanted to evidence!

So your argument that Living organisms on Earth can "float" into space is ridiculous! Just admit it and lets be done.

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Seriously, read through the thread again! I never once said Hydrogren couldn't escape. I said CO2 and H2O were to heavy and that microbes were 11 orders of magnitude heavier!You said the Oceans would boil away in a billion years and I said you were wrong. Now you are saying 25% of Earth's water "disappeared" but you don't understand that didn't involve H2O "floating" off into space which is what you wanted to evidence!

So your argument that Living organisms on Earth can "float" into space is ridiculous! Just admit it and lets be done.

No the boiling away was someone else....

I just popped in and said I had read an article that said that there had been more water once.

I've not seen anything that necessarily prevents the occasional large molecule or even microbe, under the right circumstances, from getting out past the exosphere. What you say makes total sense, but I've not found any expert opinions saying it is 100% true.

You are willing to state that no large molecule has Ever, ever, Ever gotten out of the atmosphere under natural circumstances? Never? Yes, or no please....

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I was reading the other day ( and i am glad i did) that out there is space. If a human walks out without a suit and holding his breath for 30 -40 seconds. Exactly nothing bad will happen to him. His eyes won't be sucked out, or his blood, like in hollywood movies. It is not even extremely cold as we expected to be. He might get sun burns if touched by sun lights. My normal question then is...

Another article was saying that you can simply take a dormant insect (winter hibernation), put her in a box, transport her on a planet like Mars and release her. She will wake up from hibernation but die right away because of the actual conditions.

So my point is now more then ever i believe that is it so easy to propagate-life in space through meteorites and celestial bodies carrying cells, atoms and dna.

What space does to the human body in 30 seconds is not relevant. The question to ask is what does source ejection, space travel and reentry do to organic chemicals over the millions of years required to get here. Temperature and radiation do very very bad things to organic chemicals. Panspermia is highly, highly improbable.

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No the boiling away was someone else....

I just popped in and said I had read an article that said that there had been more water once.

I've not seen anything that necessarily prevents the occasional large molecule or even microbe, under the right circumstances, from getting out past the exosphere. What you say makes total sense, but I've not found any expert opinions saying it is 100% true.

You are willing to state that no large molecule has Ever, ever, Ever gotten out of the atmosphere under natural circumstances? Never? Yes, or no please....

I've said the one natural circumstance when this does happen is when the Earth is impacted and ejecta is thrown out of Earths orbit. But does H2O or CO2 just blow off into space? No. The reason is these are too heavy and are trapped in the lower atmospheric layers.

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What space does to the human body in 30 seconds is not relevant. The question to ask is what does source ejection, space travel and reentry do to organic chemicals over the millions of years required to get here. Temperature and radiation do very very bad things to organic chemicals. Panspermia is highly, highly improbable.

Why would it be so improbable when we know some bacteria survive much harsher environments and for much longer than we ever even imagined just 20 years ago?

There was a paper just last week that said we have already likely seeded the part of the solar system we have sent probes to visit because the microbes that survive the sterization process also likey survive the trips!

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Why would it be so improbable when we know some bacteria survive much harsher environments and for much longer than we ever even imagined just 20 years ago?

These harsh environments are nothing like the extreme cold and radiation of outer space. If bacteria could survive in these conditions, we'd all be dead.

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These harsh environments are nothing like the extreme cold and radiation of outer space. If bacteria could survive in these conditions, we'd all be dead.

Space is what I was talking about. Bacteria have been subjected to space and survived in several experiments on the ISS over the last few years.

Edited by lost_shaman
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It's interesting how sure some seem to be about all this. I'm curious Frank, how would giant heavy living molecules just "float" into space? Considering that much lighter and smaller molecules like CO2 and O2 don't.

Gidday LS

One thing - what about animals that rain down like frogs and fishes - or the aforementioned Diatom? Perhaps forces like Cyclones can also lift up some organic heavy molecules? Which I would think would be a random and short lived event? Not exactly space, but high enough to get one's attention.

What is much more likely is that organisms living in rocks are ejected into space by impacts where they remain dormant until landing on another Moon or Planet. For example some bacteria have been found still living in 86 million year old seafloor clay settiments. If a chunk of seafloor was ejected from from Earth by an impact containing these living microbes, it would only need an escape velocity of about 47 miles an hour to end up falling onto the surface of Mars for example 86 million years later!

We are also moving through space, and do a galactic orbit about every 100 million years, which might mean that ejecta could be left behind to interact with other systems of dust clouds it might encounter along the way? A bit of a short cut so to speak?

Microbes like that would never know the difference between being in space inside the chunk of seafloor or actually being in the Earths seafloor!

Not only is this viable, but its quite likely. Earth Microbes from the Chiluxub impact may be raining down on Mars or other bodies in the Solar system right now.

I would agree very likely. Earth was bombarded pretty heavily for some time, many of the impacts would have sterilised the earth, as such, Panspermia may have been instrumental in reseeding the planet via the very forces that destroyed life here.

Edited by psyche101
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I bet curiosity rover had unknowingly or knowingly discarded some earth bacterias on mars. If they were anaerobic will have chances to survive, we will never live and see but that was one way to colonize another planet, in slow motion but almost certainly.

In a few 200 millions of years some Martians on their name psyche and merton will discuss about potential live origins on their planet.

Not while all the water remains frozen and underground I'd say.

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