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Mystic Crusader

The Abrahamic god as Goliath

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Posted (edited)

As the topic title suggest and description says, what do you guys think. And also if Jesus serves the the Abrahamic god, wouldn't it really make him a servant of evil?

2 Corinthians 4:4

New International Version

The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God (Goliath).

Think of the first and second beast. (I can't help but think of Darth Sidious and Darth Vader).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goliath

Goliath (Hebrew: גָּלְיָת, Modern Golyat Tiberian Golyāṯ; Arabic: جالوت, Ǧālūt (Qur'anic term), جليات Ǧulyāt (Christian term)) or Goliath of Gath (one of five city states of the Philistines) is a giant Philistine warrior defeated by the young David, the future king of Israel, in the Bible's Books of Samuel (1 Samuel 17).

The original purpose of the story was to show David's identity as the true king of Israel.[1] Post-Classical Jewish traditions stressed Goliath's status as the representative of paganism, in contrast to David, the champion of the God of Israel. Christian tradition gave him a distinctively Christian perspective, seeing in David's battle with Goliath the victory of God's King over the enemies of God's helpless people as a prefiguring of Jesus' victory over sin on the Cross and the Church's victory over Satan.[2]

God as the devil

In the Hebrew Bible God is depicted as the source of both light and darkness, as in Isaiah 45:6-7.[1] However this concept of "darkness" or "evil" was not yet personified as "the devil," a later development in Jewish thought.[2]

The author of the Books of Chronicles is thought to have first introduced the notion of "divine intermediaries", not found in the earlier parts of the Hebrew Bible. The main evidence adduced by theologians to support this is 1 Chronicles 21, a reworked version of 2 Samuel 24.

This change is made most evident in the Chronicler's treatment of 2 Samuel 24:1 "And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah." (KJV)

which in 1 Chronicles 21:1 becomes: "And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel." (KJV)

While in the book of Samuel, YHWH himself is the agent in punishing Israel, while in 1 Chronicles, an "adversary" is introduced. This is usually taken as the result of Persian dualism on Israelite demonology.

Scholars are divided on whether in Chronicles, "the adversary" had already become a proper name, "the Adversary" (Satan). The traditional opinion has been that this is the case, arguing from the absence of the definite article in שטן "adversary". S. Japhet in her The Ideology of the Book of Chronicles and its Place in Biblical Thought (1989) argued against mainstream opinion in suggesting that שטן still had the generic meaning and only became the proper name "Satan" at a later date, by about the 2nd century BC.

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Essentially the spirit of david is not in Israel anymore, but the spirit of Golitah is (a giant philistine warrior, narcissus, look at im mr ******, mirror mirror on the wall, who is like unto the beast).

Edited by Mystic Crusader

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the infidel is a good movie

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Wikipedia is to biblical theology as treading water is to deep-sea diving.

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I don't understand the point you are making. How do you connect God as being Goliath?

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Posted (edited)

I don't understand the point you are making. How do you connect God as being Goliath?

Read the links.

illarge.gif

Edited by Mystic Crusader

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Jesus is the Logos.The divine Word that became flesh through Ink and Paper.

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I read the links. 2 Corinthians 4:4 is actually speaking of the devil. He was and still IS the god of this age, of this world. The text is stating that it is he who is blinding those like yourself from seeing the truth of God. He is also referred to as the prince of the power of the air. He has lots of names. I've known Christian pastors who were not as devout and energized about God as you are about condemning Him. You should be careful, there was once this guy like you, his name was Saul.... :w00t:

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Posted (edited)

I read the links. 2 Corinthians 4:4 is actually speaking of the devil. He was and still IS the god of this age, of this world. The text is stating that it is he who is blinding those like yourself from seeing the truth of God. He is also referred to as the prince of the power of the air. He has lots of names. I've known Christian pastors who were not as devout and energized about God as you are about condemning Him. You should be careful, there was once this guy like you, his name was Saul.... :w00t:

John 9:39

New International Version

Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind."

Luke 12:49

New International Version

"I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

Revelation 13:13

New American Standard Bible

He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men.

Edited by Mystic Crusader

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Let's not forget that the Christianity people believe nowdays are simply one version that survived out of many.

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John 9:39

New International Version

Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind."

Luke 12:49

New International Version

"I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

Revelation 13:13

New American Standard Bible

He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men.

The last quote is speaking of the false prophet. The others are speaking of Christ's coming destruction of "those that destroy the earth". It's the same point I've attempted to make many times. Allowing the current condition of the world to continue will GUARANTEE the destruction of all life by our own hands. It/we are His creation and he is not going to allow us to destroy ourselves. When you cast him as the ultimate evil actor in creation you are not allowing for man's freewill. We are flawed from birth. You could make the argument, I guess, that this is the Creator's fault but I personally don't feel qualified to tell the Creator of everything that he got it wrong....

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If He got it wrong, then He got it wrong. The king is not served by servants who won't point out his mistakes.

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Posted (edited)

Isaiah 66:3

King James Bible

He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.

aurochsgr.jpg

pentagram1.gif

The Minotaur

Legend has it that the first minotaur was a powerful but bad-tempered human fighter who "wished to be as strong as a bull (In this case he wished to be as strong as an ox)". His wish was granted in the most perverse way possible.

Lord of the Pit

Lord_of_the_Pit.jpg

Where's your crown King Nothing?

Edited by Mystic Crusader

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That's a goat in the pentagram.

The Minotaur is the offspring of a woman and a bull its not really the story you're claiming

....Neat picture

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That's a goat in the pentagram.

The Minotaur is the offspring of a woman and a bull its not really the story you're claiming

....Neat picture

The neat picture is quite in the style of Frank Frazetta, circa 1965 (Frazetta did many color covers for 'Creepy' and 'Eerie' magazines; he was ubiquitous in pop culture in the '60's--'70's. He did the covers for many of the Conan paperbacks in the same era).

What's the point of all this dog-eat-dog bull, anyways? Did somebody get somebody's goat?

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It does look very Connan doesn't it?

Now i want a movie where Connan fights the devil.

or whatever the devil would be in his world.

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Posted (edited)

It does look very Connan doesn't it?

Now i want a movie where Connan fights the devil.

or whatever the devil would be in his world.

In Robert E. Howard's original stories, novellas and novels, Conan fights a variety of serpents, dragons and other slithery things from the Netherworld, mostly minions of Satan, in or to some degree; but a face off with the real McCoy, with Beezlebub---mano a mano with Mephistopheles, -- now that would be worth the price of admission, or the special effects, or whatever. But what are we supposed to get out of these canine references along with the minotaur and the en-pentagrammed goat? It appears to be a slam at "Abrahamic God/god/s," but I'm not finding the thread of the presentation. Maybe I'm trying too hard?

Edited by DeWitz

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It's Mystic's MO.

Some torch he's always running with.

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It's Mystic's MO.

Some torch he's always running with.

"Flame on," I guess.

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Posted (edited)

That's a goat in the pentagram.

The Minotaur is the offspring of a woman and a bull its not really the story you're claiming

....Neat picture

Azazel perhaps? The demon of the desert, I just happen to think of Moses (The lamb horned beast from the earth). Where does it state in the bible that the lamb horned beast is a goat?

And also, both Moses and Jesus were banished to the desert. Sounds like a minotaur getting banished to a labyrinth.

I think of an episode of Star Trek next generation called "Skin of Evil"

[media=]

[/media] Edited by Mystic Crusader
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Wikipedia is to biblical theology as treading water is to deep-sea diving.

A good place to start from???????

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As the topic title suggest and description says, what do you guys think. And also if Jesus serves the the Abrahamic god, wouldn't it really make him a servant of evil?

2 Corinthians 4:4

New International Version

The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God (Goliath).

That reads to me as Satan, "The god of this age", ie the gods of the Romans, and the Greeks and Hindus and Persians... Are blinding people to the message (The Gospel) of Jesus. In hopes that they will fall into Evil and be damned. The "Goliath" in this scripture would be "the god of this age", not the Father.

Essentially the spirit of david is not in Israel anymore, but the spirit of Golitah is (a giant philistine warrior, narcissus, look at im mr ******, mirror mirror on the wall, who is like unto the beast).

An arguement probably could be made for that statement, but I doubt it falls along the lines you are proposing.

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A good place to start from???????

I can't argue with that.

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This seriously p***es me off.

Isaiah 9:7

New International Version

Of the greatness of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the LORD Almighty will accomplish this.

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The neat picture is quite in the style of Frank Frazetta, circa 1965 (Frazetta did many color covers for 'Creepy' and 'Eerie' magazines; he was ubiquitous in pop culture in the '60's--'70's. He did the covers for many of the Conan paperbacks in the same era).

What's the point of all this dog-eat-dog bull, anyways? Did somebody get somebody's goat?

That Lord of the Pit pic is very reminiscent of Franks work, I agree. It's actually artwork from a card game called Magic the Gathering.

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I would suggest a good Bible commentary or a series of studies on the individual books thereof. J. Vernon McGee has such a series and Donald Barnhouse has some good commentaries on selected books.

Many Bible commentaries are by people who have spent decades in study, who understand Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic, the three languages of Scripture. They study history (the past), prophesy (future events), theology, ancient cultures and civilizations, and so forth.

There are many, many sensational and often crackpot theories that surface regularly about the Bible, I find it best to go to those who have made a life's work out of careful scholarly study, often with much prayer, rather than someone who comes up with the latest and greatest theory. After all the New Testament alone is some around 2000 years old and has been throughly studied over the centuries.

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