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supervike

Student kicked out of school for BB Gun.

30 posts in this topic

http://www.kwwl.com/story/25514261/2014/05/14/dubuque-student-suspended-after-bb-gun-discovered-in-car

Over reaction??

This kid gets suspended because someone saw a BB gun in his car, which was parked off campus!

What right do the police have to confiscate this?

I understand safety is a top priority, but shouldn't common sense take over at some point?

Your thoughts?

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So he was suspended for owning a BB gun. Not for having it at school or anywhere on school property, not using it, not removing it from his vehicle, not threatening anyone with it. I wonder if he is 18?

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Posted (edited)

Yes...major over-reaction and the police should be forced to return it. It was not on school property and it was encased in"private property"...i.e. the kids car.

There is no common sense to be found these days...everyone is medicated or in need of it apparently.

Everyone is afraid of their own shadow...sad really. We used to be a lot stronger and tougher than we are now...a BB gun?...really?

I am sure it was turned in by someone who knew nothing about guns and thought it was something to be afraid of...still no excuse.

This "see something say something" psyop we are now under is nothing but the same policies used in Nazi Germany...and now with camera phones and wireless web access...you can rat someone out in record time!

We are all expected to bow to the Neo Gestapo...they are never wrong and you are never protected or secure and you have zero personal freedom and privacy now...congratulations...

Then...

gestapo_zps438bc5a1.jpg

Now...

riotpolice_zpsa0ee1e26.jpg

theassaultonjustice_zpsda89f0c5.jpg

Lady-Liberty-Weeping.jpg

Edited by Jeremiah65
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Luckily it wasn't a Pop Tart.

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Just sayin.. It was pretty stupid and irresponsible to have a gun just laying out in the open in your car where everyone can see it. Even if it is just a BB gun, general gun safety and sense should have been exercised. That gun should have been put away securely in the car.

That said, I think the schools reaction is way overboard.

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Tremendous overreach on the part of both the school and law enforcement. I can see why the police would have been called if someone saw the BB gun in the vehicle (dumb move on the kid's part by the way to leave it in the open like that), but as soon as the police arrived and realized what it was, that should have been the end of it right there. Possession of a BB gun is perfectly legal under Iowa law (except at the State Fairgrounds) and since he wasn't on school grounds, the school should have no more say in the matter than if he a BB gun at his home.

It might have happened already, but I'm waiting for the first kid to get suspended for posting hunting or target shooting photos on social media. It's no secret that part of the anti-2nd Amendment agenda is to stigmatize gun owners and gun ownership the way cigarette smokers and smoking in general was stigmatized over the past 30 years. This is but another example of that beginning to happen.

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It could be that someone saw the BB gun in school and saw the boy put it in his car is my guess

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It could be that someone saw the BB gun in school and saw the boy put it in his car is my guess

That's not supported by the statements from the police nor the school administration.

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Over reach by the cops, and probably illegal ? Wrongful treatment by the school. They were both wrong.

But the kid was sort of 'wrong' too, in that it defies common sense to leave what looks like a GUN in sight of passersby? , if that was the case.

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Posted (edited)

Policing is no longer protecting and serving.. It's business plain and simple. Common sense in not even a factor anymore.

Edit: And as far as the schools go.. When are they not exerting power when ever they get the chance?

Edited by Ogbin

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Policing is no longer protecting and serving

it never was, google what verb "to police" means. but they sure rammed that lie into many heads and anchored it there.

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They'd flip out if they saw the bow and arrows in the back seat of my car.

You know, things that can actually kill people.

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They'd flip out if they saw the bow and arrows in the back seat of my car.

You know, things that can actually kill people.

BB guns can kill people. It's not common, but it has happened.

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Posted (edited)

What SHOULD have happened: (IMO of course)...

School admin gets notified of "weapon in vehicle near school grounds - belonging to a student"

Admin calls student into office, calmly asks if this true and is it his weapon... Finds out it is a BB gun... Admin asks student to please not do this again - allows student

opportunity to remove the 'weapon' and take it back home... otherwise, "you may return to class"... End of drama...

Now, a second offense, would be another matter...

Edited by Taun
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What SHOULD have happened: (IMO of course)...

School admin gets notified of "weapon in vehicle near school grounds - belonging to a student"

Admin calls student into office, calmly asks if this true and is it his weapon... Finds out it is a BB gun... Admin asks student to please not do this again - allows student

opportunity to remove the 'weapon' and take it back home... otherwise, "you may return to class"... End of drama...

Now, a second offense, would be another matter...

But who gets to decide "near" school grounds? Is it .25 miles, .5 miles, 1 mile...?

As far as I know there is no law prohibiting some one from having a BB gun in their car. If no law is broken then no need for police involvement.

The car was not on school grounds. No need for school to be involved.

"Second offense"? What was his first offense?

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What SHOULD have happened: (IMO of course)...

School admin gets notified of "weapon in vehicle near school grounds - belonging to a student"

Admin calls student into office, calmly asks if this true and is it his weapon... Finds out it is a BB gun... Admin asks student to please not do this again - allows student

opportunity to remove the 'weapon' and take it back home... otherwise, "you may return to class"... End of drama...

Now, a second offense, would be another matter...

Forgive me, Taun, but you made the assumption that the student would be 100% honest about the situation. They don't always do that.

I do think that the situation was an overreaction if it was known to be a BB gun. Could someone have witnessed it and not realized that, thinking it was the real thing?

Consider this.

• Every year in my classroom, I have Lego Robotics kits for the students to experiment with. Invariably, several students will create hand-held weapons and start shooting at each other.

• If I let a student use a compressed air can to clean a keyboard (and I usually don't), the next thing they do with it is turn it upside down and spray it in somebody's face (releasing a blast of super-frigid mist).

• If I let the students choose what games they want to play during free time, they choose Quake, Doom, or Halo - all first person shooting games. I don't let them play those.

• Even in Minecraft, they spend more time hacking at each other than building structures.

Every year, I have students who can only express themselves through violence. We've got to stop thinking of students as little adults; most of them don't have the maturity to consider consequences of actions.

Does it bother me that police overreacted about a BB gun? No, not really. Schools have become battlegrounds, and I will not apologize for trying to protect the lives of my students.

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Forgive me, Taun, but you made the assumption that the student would be 100% honest about the situation. They don't always do that.

I do think that the situation was an overreaction if it was known to be a BB gun. Could someone have witnessed it and not realized that, thinking it was the real thing?

Consider this.

• Every year in my classroom, I have Lego Robotics kits for the students to experiment with. Invariably, several students will create hand-held weapons and start shooting at each other.

• If I let a student use a compressed air can to clean a keyboard (and I usually don't), the next thing they do with it is turn it upside down and spray it in somebody's face (releasing a blast of super-frigid mist).

• If I let the students choose what games they want to play during free time, they choose Quake, Doom, or Halo - all first person shooting games. I don't let them play those.

• Even in Minecraft, they spend more time hacking at each other than building structures.

Every year, I have students who can only express themselves through violence. We've got to stop thinking of students as little adults; most of them don't have the maturity to consider consequences of actions.

Does it bother me that police overreacted about a BB gun? No, not really. Schools have become battlegrounds, and I will not apologize for trying to protect the lives of my students.

Yes, but perhaps they should have given the student the chance to be honest first... And during free time perhaps they should be steered toward games like "Settlers of Cataan" ... and not on a computer

but face to face over a board, like chess...

I think part of the problem today is children spend too much time isolated from interacting with other children at play... They spend a lot of time in their own little world and in those cases it's easier to lose

sight of other people as "living" and "real"...

Not slamming you at all, I admire and respect teachers that try to engage the kids - I always thought I would like to be a History teacher in middle or High School (but lack the college alas)... First person

shooter games are lots of fun, but I do think they should not be played by someone under age ...what that exact age is I have no idea... depends on the maturity of the child - I know 40 year olds who are

"too young" for them...

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But who gets to decide "near" school grounds? Is it .25 miles, .5 miles, 1 mile...?

As far as I know there is no law prohibiting some one from having a BB gun in their car. If no law is broken then no need for police involvement.

The car was not on school grounds. No need for school to be involved.

"Second offense"? What was his first offense?

Well apparently it was close enough that he walked from the car to school and someone else made the connection that it was his car and he was at school...

I agree that the police really didn't need to get involved - but to play a bit of devils advocate, when summoned they must appear and take action... Of course the proper action would have been to do nothing...

I should have typed "Second occurance" rather than "offense"... my bad...

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Posted (edited)

Forgive me, Taun, but you made the assumption that the student would be 100% honest about the situation. They don't always do that.

I do think that the situation was an overreaction if it was known to be a BB gun. Could someone have witnessed it and not realized that, thinking it was the real thing?

Consider this.

• Every year in my classroom, I have Lego Robotics kits for the students to experiment with. Invariably, several students will create hand-held weapons and start shooting at each other.

• If I let a student use a compressed air can to clean a keyboard (and I usually don't), the next thing they do with it is turn it upside down and spray it in somebody's face (releasing a blast of super-frigid mist).

• If I let the students choose what games they want to play during free time, they choose Quake, Doom, or Halo - all first person shooting games. I don't let them play those.

• Even in Minecraft, they spend more time hacking at each other than building structures.

Every year, I have students who can only express themselves through violence. We've got to stop thinking of students as little adults; most of them don't have the maturity to consider consequences of actions.

Does it bother me that police overreacted about a BB gun? No, not really. Schools have become battlegrounds, and I will not apologize for trying to protect the lives of my students.

Im just going to be straight forward. I think your a tad bit paranoid. "schools have become battlegrounds". No they haven't lol

Every action you just listed are normal kid things. That does not mean they are violent or make them violent. Halo is fun.

And you really do not thinking kicking a student out of school for having a B.B gun in his own car off school grounds is an overreaction? What school rule did this teenager even break?

And even so I agree with Taun, did the school even try to talk to the kid and give a warning?

Edited by spartan max2

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Im just going to be straight forward. I think your a tad bit paranoid. "schools have become battlegrounds". No they haven't lol

Every action you just listed are normal kid things. That does not mean they are violent or make them violent. Halo is fun.

And you really do not thinking kicking a student out of school for having a B.B gun in his own car off school grounds is an overreaction? What school rule did this teenager even break?

And even so I agree with Taun, did the school even try to talk to the kid and give a warning?

Zero Tolerance needs no logic or warnings. If students are caught doing anything that can be construed as "bad"(even in their own homes) they will be suspended. Did you read the cases where a school lent student laptops, then had the webcam running in the background to monitor their behavior and mete out punishments?

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I do realize that the majority of students are not violent. However, some of the students are, and we have to be aware of that. A student in the room next to mine once picked up a chair and threw it at the teacher. Another student shot and killed his mother and sister because he "wanted to see what it felt like to kill someone."

Am I paranoid? Maybe. Am I watchful? All the time. I've been entrusted with the safety of my students, whether it's defusing a bullying situation, breaking up a fight, or protecting their life. I have to be aware of their potential, whether it's for learning or for violence.

Yes, the school overreacted, but I don't want to see the pendulum swing the other way into total complacency. That's one of the things wrong with our country: people polarize on issues instead of seeking moderation.

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Came across this article...

For the third time in less than a week, a student brought a weapon to a Dubuque school.

Officials say the incidents are unrelated. It’s the 6th time this school year that has happened.

On Friday, May 9 a student discovered an airsoft pistol in another student’s back pack at Marshall Elementary School. On Monday May 12, at Prescott Elementary school a child brought a pocket knife into the school building. On Wednesday May 14, a parent spotted a BB gun inside a student’s car near Senior High School.

The school district is indeed zero tolerance.

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Came across this article...

The school district is indeed zero tolerance.

So basically no weapons were brought to school.

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Zero Tolerance needs no logic or warnings. If students are caught doing anything that can be construed as "bad"(even in their own homes) they will be suspended. Did you read the cases where a school lent student laptops, then had the webcam running in the background to monitor their behavior and mete out punishments?

It should not be that way then. How far should the school rules be allowed to reach?

The rules are for that building and any function that is part of the school. If you are in your home then the school should not be able to punish you.

This teenager had his B.B gun in his car off grounds, if he wanted to bring it in then wouldn't he of done that instead of leaving it in his car...?

Any system that needs no logic should not be a system in the first place

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So basically no weapons were brought to school.

Well yeah, it was established right off the cuff in the OP article that the BB gun was not on the school grounds. I didn't share the article for that reason. I shared it because it cited other examples of their zero tolerance policy. It is interesting in part because the other two examples were cases of weapons on school grounds, and this time it's not.

And just for another article to share.. This one is from last September, when the school year first started. Again, weapons on school grounds. http://www.kwwl.com/...-school-charged

So, they are very zero tolerance as examples show. This time it was for something off school grounds. I completely think the school is over-reacting to this incident. But I figure it does not hurt to have more information out there about the whole school policy general.

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