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Still Waters

Creationist claims proof the Bible was right

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A new exhibit of a 9m long fossil skeleton of an Allosaurus, which resembles a Tyrannosaurus rex, is set to open at a Kentucky museum that asserts dinosaurs lived alongside humans a few thousand years ago.

Museum founder, Australian-born Ken Ham, said the new exhibit "will help us defend the book of Genesis and expose the scientific problems with evolution."

http://news.ninemsn....longside-humans

http://www.dailymail...-dinosaurs.html

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When creationists try to "do" science, the results tend to be both irritating and illogical. Even if their hearts are in the right place their methodologies are fatally skewed. Would that believers stick to theology and allow science to continue its own set of processes.

Good theology doesn't pretend to be science, and science doesn't tread on the areas of theology and metaphysics.

A shorter take on this--science explores how, not who; and theology examines who, not how.

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God designed dinosaurs to die at different levels during the flood?

Uh... no.

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Creationism and science are an oxymoron, imo.

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Nothing like a Young Geocentric Universe, Satan fighting, KJV Bible literalist, for a breath of fresh air.

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Oh thank the God's, the founder was born in Australia. I hate it when this stuff comes out and makes Americans look so stupid.

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Posted (edited)

I'm of the opinion that Science and Theology are two sides of the same coin. Though they appear to be at odds, they will eventually be reconciled.

Science doesn't threaten my faith any more than my theology threatens science. Both sides of the debate have a history of making misjudgments and mistakes; the problems occur when either side contends that their mistakes are less important than the other's, and therefore require less scrutiny.

I personally believe that Creation scientists have a greater responsibility to be honest and meticulous in their research, seeing as how their Faith is being scrutinized along with their research. Their faith and their science should be inseparable.

Edited by simplybill
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I'm of the opinion that Science and Theology are two sides of the same coin. Though they appear to be at odds, they will eventually be reconciled.

Science doesn't threaten my faith any more than my theology threatens science. Both sides of the debate have a history of making misjudgments and mistakes; the problems occur when either side contends that their mistakes are less important than the other's, and therefore require less scrutiny.

I personally believe that Creation scientists have a greater responsibility to be honest and meticulous in their research, seeing as how their Faith is being scrutinized along with their research. Their faith and their science should be inseparable.

I don't quite see how you can say science and theology are two sides of the same coin. There is nothing scientific about the Biblical stories, imo.

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I don't quite see how you can say science and theology are two sides of the same coin. There is nothing scientific about the Biblical stories, imo.

The Sodomite cities were destroyed by a major Meteor Shower sent by God.Lot's wife was turned into a pillar of Salt, because take away moisture the body is just chemical salts.

See Science, and Theology are not at odds.

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I don't quite see how you can say science and theology are two sides of the same coin. There is nothing scientific about the Biblical stories, imo.

You caught me unprepared, JJ. I suppose if I'm going to make a statement like that, then I should be prepared to explain it.

I don't want to appear as though I'm taking sides, but the initial reason I began thinking along those lines was the argument that "God made fossils look old to test our faith". Being a believer, I was offended, because that statement requires God to be deceitful. The bible makes it clear that God uses Nature as one way of revealing Himself to us (The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Psalm 19:1). In 2nd Timothy 2:15, Paul admonishes Timothy to be diligent in "rightly dividing the word of truth". It would go against His character to falsify the evidence of creation in order to test our faith.

I believe that Science and Theology are equally legitimate disciplines. When they disagree, I see two choices: one of the disciplines is incorrect, or both disciplines need to be more diligent in "rightly dividing the truth".

Well, anyway, that's my short answer.

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Posted (edited)

You caught me unprepared, JJ. I suppose if I'm going to make a statement like that, then I should be prepared to explain it.

I don't want to appear as though I'm taking sides, but the initial reason I began thinking along those lines was the argument that "God made fossils look old to test our faith". Being a believer, I was offended, because that statement requires God to be deceitful. The bible makes it clear that God uses Nature as one way of revealing Himself to us (The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Psalm 19:1). In 2nd Timothy 2:15, Paul admonishes Timothy to be diligent in "rightly dividing the word of truth". It would go against His character to falsify the evidence of creation in order to test our faith.

I believe that Science and Theology are equally legitimate disciplines. When they disagree, I see two choices: one of the disciplines is incorrect, or both disciplines need to be more diligent in "rightly dividing the truth".

Well, anyway, that's my short answer.

God deceives.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/god_lie.html

God creates evil.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/evil.html

Yet God hates Women that collect healling Herbs, and have knowledge to ease the birthing process.

Exodus 22:18

18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

Edited by davros of skaro
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Posted (edited)

"Daniel Phelps, president of the Kentucky Paleontological Society, said in a release Thursday that the Creation Museum "has decided, without doing research, that the dinosaur fossil is evidence of Noah's flood."

Read more at http://news.ninemsn....6yFORgoT5Vpu.99

nuff said

Edited by JGirl
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Oh thank the God's, the founder was born in Australia. I hate it when this stuff comes out and makes Americans look so stupid.

The fact he had to open his Cretinism Museum in America is telling though (he'd have been laughed at and refused planning permission here I suspect).

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I don't quite see how you can say science and theology are two sides of the same coin. There is nothing scientific about the Biblical stories, imo.

Faith and Reason are like the shoes on your feet, you get further with both rather then just one - J. Michael Strazinksi, noted Atheist and creator of Babylon 5.

They're not two sides of one coin, they're two coins that sit in your pocket waiting to be used for what their meant to be used for.

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In related news: Idiots are breeding faster than non-idiots.

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In related news: Idiots are breeding faster than non-idiots.

Nah, I've found creationism is an ever shrinking group, the internet ha a lot to do with that.

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Posted (edited)

What I find surprising, and a little concerning, is how the media have reported this.

All the news stories are largely identical. Using the same quotes, and all mention his debate with Bill Nye.

But where is the story here? Why have any news organisations actually reported this?

The only "story" here is that a well known creationist has added a dinosaur exhibit to his museum. He claims that this offers proof for his view of creationism. But never actually explains what that proof is.

Was the fossil found in the same strata of rock as human fossils?

Has the rock been dated to being around 4,500 years old?

I can't believe how many news sources have shown this non-story the light of day.

Edited by Arbenol68
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It's probably copying a press release from the Creationist park. Reporters these days tend to not have much time for than regurgitation of press releases with little fact checking.

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If I took, lets say we took a 5ft circumference sphere and for the sake of argument, it's made out of glass. Lets say the sphere is empty- not one single molecule of anything is inside the sphere and the sphere is sealed solid, that prevents anything from coming in or out. Sealed shut, Empty of everything and made out of whatever possible to keep it that way.

So what?

Question... how long would it take for everything we know to replicate itself inside that sphere with no interference whatsoever?

See the problem I have is.. in theory 'what we know of should be re-producible given the time needed according to those who believe in evolution only and no God. So the my question should be answerable because the sphere contains the same conditions as those who believe in what I just said about evolution only.

The conditions of the sphere are of course hypothetical of course, but again in the opinion of evolution it should be possible.

Careful. If you say it's not possible then neither is you're side of the argument.

I guess it does makes sense uh, that "nothingness" can not Create "somethingness" (my new word).

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Except in a true vacuum particles do pop in and out of existence. It's been observed.

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If I took, lets say we took a 5ft circumference sphere and for the sake of argument, it's made out of glass. Lets say the sphere is empty- not one single molecule of anything is inside the sphere and the sphere is sealed solid, that prevents anything from coming in or out. Sealed shut, Empty of everything and made out of whatever possible to keep it that way.

So what?

Question... how long would it take for everything we know to replicate itself inside that sphere with no interference whatsoever?

See the problem I have is.. in theory 'what we know of should be re-producible given the time needed according to those who believe in evolution only and no God. So the my question should be answerable because the sphere contains the same conditions as those who believe in what I just said about evolution only.

The conditions of the sphere are of course hypothetical of course, but again in the opinion of evolution it should be possible.

Careful. If you say it's not possible then neither is you're side of the argument.

I guess it does makes sense uh, that "nothingness" can not Create "somethingness" (my new word).

The Earth is not a closed system, the entire premise of your post is wrong.

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The Earth is not a closed system, the entire premise of your post is wrong.

I think he is speaking to the universe as a whole. If he isn't, then yeah he's totally off mark here.

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I think he is speaking to the universe as a whole. If he isn't, then yeah he's totally off mark here.

Then he should educate himself on the topic that he's debating, so he can at least use the right words. Evolution has nothing to do with the universe, it is simply the change in the inherited characteristics of biological populations over successive generations.

And if you're right, his premise is still wrong.

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Then he should educate himself on the topic that he's debating, so he can at least use the right words. Evolution has nothing to do with the universe, it is simply the change in the inherited characteristics of biological populations over successive generations.

Creationist use the evolution term to generalize to everything in science. If they refuse to acknowledge it, there's not much you can do.

And if you're right, his premise is still wrong.

Didn't say it wasn't.

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When creationists try to "do" science, the results tend to be both irritating and illogical. Even if their hearts are in the right place their methodologies are fatally skewed. Would that believers stick to theology and allow science to continue its own set of processes.

Good theology doesn't pretend to be science, and science doesn't tread on the areas of theology and metaphysics.

A shorter take on this--science explores how, not who; and theology examines who, not how.

I'm going to have to disagree with you. Of course you have to the right education to understand where I'm coming from. Imagine just for the moment that it's possible that all of the current ways that religion are being taught, are all wrong. Probably not to hard to imagine, actually pretty easy to imagine. In order to understand whats really going on, your going to have an extensive knowledge in the background of the Supernatural. FYI, the bible is prefaced Supernatural. You will also have to have had some research into the findings of the Human Genome. The reason is because it's evident from facts in the bible that DNA manipulation or methylation, are used in the bible, and since we have mapped out the Genome, our DNA has obvious proof that it's been altered. These alterations can only be done in a lab.

Grasping at straws, scients are wondering if aliens did this as we sure in the heck haven't had this knowledge. Oddly enough, they don't know it, but they would be correct. In the Ezekiel chapter, God is witnessed flying down from the skys, in whats best determined to be a UFO. Accompanied with a four headed creature of lion, ox, eagle, and man. The theory is confirmed in isaiah 6:8 where God is giving an explanation of removing some of our abilities to make us love him more, and be more dependant on him. As a result of this, we learn from Hebrews 11:1-6 that Earth is not our home. In that same area we also learn that God removed some of our abilities. We are of an intelliget design, and I don't mean we are the smartest thing on Earth. Through out the bible, god has handed down punishments and explained that these will also be passed off to our offspring.

As a result, our DNA tells us that we have six sections that appear to have been removed, inverted, and re-inserted. This was identified easily because the helix pattern common through out DNA is reversed. We have over four thousand defects that are explained to be naturally impossible, through comparison with other life here on Earth that might have four, or seven. We have two chromosomes that are fused together. We have a plethora of junk DNA which is not odd, but the composition of it's patterns are not found in any other life. Aside from the junk DNA, everything else is only possible in a lab.

People like myself that have studied the Supernatual and paranormal for over thirty years of their lives, probably have an edge over others when it comes to understanding these types of dealings. In case your unsure what Supernatural means, it means aliens, or that which is not from earth. Others usually laugh and gawk at people that are in to these subjects, assuming that these things surly don't exist. What they don't understand is that their belief, or rather non belief would be based on the lack of personal experience, truly stemming from a poor sampling supply. It's like someone taking a fifty galon bucket to the ocean and filling it up with ocean water, and realize there is no fish in it. So they convince themselves there surly isn't any fish in the ocean.

I'm so versed in understanding common events in encounters that often times I can realize things about the victim that both the victim and author both miss. Now while I surly can't give you an example of every account in the bible, what I can do is just give you a very small tid bit, to show and prove to you how easy it is to missunderstand what is truly going on.

Looking at the genesis section where Adam and Eve are in the garden and God has explained to them not to eat from the tree of knowledge, and the serpent explains to them they surly will not die eating from the tree. He was right, they didn't die. Whats odd is how Adam and Eve suddenly noticed they were both naked, and felt shame. Knowledge could create shame in the right circumstances, but I assure you that tree was not magic and did not have any educational qualities. While I can't give you a complete breakdown of what all we claim to know about aliens, I assume you know the most common ones. Aliens like to abduct people and they like to erase your memory. I know this might sound far fetched but OUR doctors have been able to erase memory since the 1,700's, which was later perfected in the 1,930's. It's called Electro Convulsive Shock Therapy, and it hurts so bad that you can dislocate a large bone. They even have a pill now to wipe out your memory, not available to the public of course.

So in essence, what actually happened, was Adam and Eve actually got their memory back when they ate from the tree. This is because the tree supplied them with something that was either identical or simular to one that they have had before. When doctors deal with a patient that has amnesia, they explain to family to expose them to things they would remember most, and that is the best way to get their memory back.

Without the knowledge I have shared with you, you would NEVER have figured out that they had been abducted. Of course aliens pilot UFO's so God is an alien, and we all know they like to abduct people, even still today. While this tid bit doesn't explain the WHOLE bible, what I can tell you is it's chocked full of supernatural occurances like the one I shared. So you see, the people preaching and teaching aren't actually qualified to be doing so.

There are many that believe this angle. It's called "Intervention." Erich Von Daniken, Sitchen and others. It's not a belief or faith, realizing your race was abducted and reseeded here on earth. Thats nothing to praise. The other thing I failed to mention is that Newsweek published their addition of Mitochondrial Eve back in January 1988. Religion was destroyed at that point because our mtDNA was able to identify a matrilineal ancestor as far back as 200,000 years. But how can that be if God supposedly put us here just about 6,000 years ago? I'm only missing about 194,000 of my lineage. It's simple, we werent living it here, thats for sure. The bible says it, our DNA says it. There is clearly some confusion about the use of the word creation in the bible, and what it was suppose to mean. However modifying our DNA to make us subservient could be why. From the best I can tell, it's all about a conspiracy against us, God had lots of help from other beings, which is really screwed up. I don't think our ancestors would appreciate the fact that some of their family had been abducted, memories erased, and reprogrammed to serve another on another planet. This is obviously why God hid his face from us, we knew him, or at least his race.

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