Jewish University Students In US, Unsafe

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

I did wonder about this myself.

If Jewish students are being stopped in the corridors and asked to justify Israeli national policy, then that is harassment.

If, on the other hand, they are merely having to walk past posters promoting the BDS campaign, then... tough.. that is university life.

Agreed! That is University life. I went to college with all the Vietnam war protesters and bomb threats on a daily basis.

Oh... unless, that is, the posters suggest Boycotting a Muslim country, in which case the posters constitute a Racist Apartheid Baby-Killing Act of Genocidal Racist Violence. The posters must be torn down, and the Bursar of the University stoned to death in the Main Square.

I hear ya. I generally do NOT support leftist LOONS, because I am conservative.

But do not ever consider being "conservative" to mean ALWAYS take the opposite view of leftists.

This is purely a human rights issue, not a left or right issue. We should ALL be on the same side.

It goes without saying that if any posters are put up that are in ANY way critical of the Palestinians (and by critical, I mean anything less than fawningly obsequious, or any attempt to suggest that the Palestinians should have to share ANY responsibility for the situation), then the University Campus must immediately be sealed off, the student body locked in their rooms, and the Campus - and all within it - destroyed with Nuclear Munitions.

Yup, I agree. the leftists students can - and DO go "overboard".

But let's face it, Israel has had the government and PC adults on their side for a long long time.

Now, it is swinging the other way, and of course, Zionists are in a bit of a fix.

I cannot at ALL say I feel sorry for them. What's good for the goose, is good for the gander.

You know, Yin Yang....?

Sorry if some of you self-hating leftists find that I'm being a bit to wishy-washy and easy-going with my punishments.

Self hating leftists,,,, lol. Ok

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

i think it should boil down to:

"I'm a Jew" "Cool".

"I think Israel is right to do X" "Why?"

"You're an idiot and a fool. Israel has a right to ...." "you're a twit"

"Isreal is wrong" "why?"

"Israel are the bullies and ..." "sod off"

You don't criticise someone for what they are (Jew, Muslim, Christian, boring...) but what they SAY is fair game and you don't respond with abuse to a considered statement of fact (or belief), that's just showing you have nothing worthwhile saying or adding to a discussion/debate.

Now, if the other person starts it - fire at will.

So someone saying they "don't feel safe" because they're Jewish means that something needs to be done to get rid of the bullying pronto.

But someone saying they "don't feel safe" because they're pro-Israel means something needs to be done to keep an eye on what's going on to make sure it doesn't (or hasn't) degrade into violence or abuse.

[RoofGardener]

Thanks for the earlier post citing Chris Hedges, EoT; I read it with great interest.

On first reading it, I was (still am) left baffled by the USA University Scene. Or at least, those universities cited by Mr. Hedges. The university Management seemed to be VERY heavy handed, and I'd like to learn more about some of the specific cases. (perhaps I'll try digging more out on t' internet, if time permits).

A couple of sentences sprang out....

Chris cites one law student who said...

To prohibit students from holding leadership roles and student groups simply because they engaged in a peaceful political protest is antithetical to the university’s mission to educate students,”

I think a key term there was "peaceful protest". One of the protests in question involved disrupting a speech by the Israeli Ambassador. Now... is that really a "peacefull" protest ? OK, nobody threw rocks or anything, but it meant that;

1) Nobody could hear what the Ambassador had to say, which is a form of suppression of free speech and the free exchange of ideas

2) It was a political embarrassment to the university authorities. It doesn't matter whether it was the Israeli Ambassador, or the Ambassador from Outer Mongolia⁽¹⁾ ... to shout an accredited Ambassador down after being invited to speak is a gross breach of etiquette and decent manners. It brought the university into disrepute.

In the UK, that would certainly be a matter for disciplinary action, and the students in question could expect to have their 'right' to use University facilities for future political action to be curtailed, or at least put under close supervision.

I was also intrigued by the (uncorroborated) statement that....

..The Israeli government in addition is pushing censorious, anti-democratic bills in the state legislatures of New York, Maryland and Illinois that would impose financial sanctions on academic organizations that boycott Israeli institutions...

The Israeli government is pushing these bills ? What.. personally ? I mean, we all take it for granted that Washington is entirely controlled by the Israeli's, disguised as Illuminati New World Order Aliens... or vica versa... but are we to believe that Netenyahu and his Cabinet have actually rolled their sleeves up, flown over to the East Coast, and got personally campaigning at American STATE level now, as well ?

Can we have photographs ?

OK.. joking apart... the Hedges article was interesting, but it was obvious from the choice of rhetoric adjectives in his prose that he is a follower of the Palestinian Narrative. I would have found the article more credible if he had left the rhetoric on the shelf, and just written a more objective piece.

Notwithstanding that criticism, I WILL make an effort to dig around for parallel examples in UK universities, and also the background to some of the sanctions he mentioned to US students.

Notes

(1) His Excellency Altangerel Bulgaa

Edited May 30, 2014 by RoofGardener

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

Roof_Gardner: "but are we to believe that Netenyahu and his Cabinet have actually rolled their sleeves up, flown over to the East Coast, and got personally campaigning at American STATE level now, as well ?

Can we have photographs ?"

LOL, not likely.

People who are angry - aka, "have an ax to grind", tend to fire from the hip. "Links..? we don't need no stinkin' links" LOL

I do know that Jewish Organizations in America have - for some years now, been concerned about the trend in American Universities and have been instructing students on some key taking points to make them better at deflecting criticisms of Israel. Think of it is a "debate primer". But I think as time goes along, it will only get worse.

And certainly not Netenyahu but I am sure the "usual suspects" are applying as much pressure as they can to the situation ( American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), Christians United for Israel, and many others)

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

Here's a couple of links, first, Anti-semitism in American universities, and secondly, the rise of anti-semitism in europe, which, BTW, makes Americans look like cub scouts LOL, no offense, Euros.

http://www.israelnat...50#.U4tReyiGdfs

A study of Religious Tolerance on Campus published by the Institute for Jewish & Community Research in December of 2011, entitled “ALONE ON THE QUAD: Understanding Jewish Student Isolation on Campus,” surveyed over 1,400 students in the United States. The Institute, which claims its survey to be one of the largest and most comprehensive of its kind, found that “Over 40% of students confirm Anti-Semitism on their campus.”

http://www.israelnat...50#.U4tReyiGdfs

"Results from the 2013 survey show that anti-Semitic attacks are growing in their intensity and cruelty. The number and type of violent attacks against Jews and Jewish institutions is worsening."

.......

The highest number of recorded incidents comes from France: 116, a rise in violent cases has also been noted in the UK, with 95 cases compared to 84 in 2012, and in Canada, 83 compared to 74; in Germany: 36 compared to 23; 23 in the Ukraine, compared to 15; 15 cases in Russia (11 in 2012), and 14 in Hungary (12 in 2012).

That latter quote is most interesting. Here is America with 310 million people being beat out by the likes of Hungary...? wow.

Anyway, I really thought America was getting bad. The reality is, the US is far behind the curve.

[RoofGardener]

You should be safe, EoT.

So far, the European experience has been that the bulk of the anti-jewish attacks come from specific, identified sources, with North African and Arab muslims topping the list.

54% of the attacks in the UK where by people of African or Arab ethnicity, despite this group constituting less than 3% of the population. Islamic slogans where a feature of the attacks.

So unless you are living in Dearborn, the USA should be safe from the increase in antisemetism being experienced elsewhere.

Edited June 2, 2014 by RoofGardener

[+and-then]

Well, there is nothing wrong with the White Supremist group saying they love White people, too.

Just saying!

ROFLMAO!!! "and then", you are a ball of contradictions. You admit you are Pro-Zionist biased but at the same time claim you believe in equal human rights for all people. Uh, huh.

IMPOSSIBLE!

Slipping and sliding, are we...? So, as long as RedNeck MadDog Zionists don't touch University students in anyway, they can toss totally innocent people - *at gunpoint*, out of their homes. Men, women, children, all innocent, and some, most certainly - University students, BTW. The Zionists did it in Palestine, they are doing it too, in another way, in America.

http://mondoweiss.ne...-narrative.html

Israel wages war on universities because it’s lost control of the narrative — Hedges

Annie Robbins on March 19, 2014 25

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Chris Hedges

Chris Hedges’s recent article on Truthdig, Israel’s War on American Universities, documents Israel’s attempts to shut down political discourse on American campuses. He denounces billionaires, politicians, and alums willing to run roughshod over our First Amendment rights and chastises academics who’ve failed to protect students rights.

Yuh, UNLESS.... they are oh, precious Zionists, right? Then they can "vilify" moozie moozie MOOZlums (but not Christians) any time they feel like it. Will you please just STOP, "and then".

I agree, it is pointless for us to see eye to eye, because your views are identical to those of a bigotted supremist.

Tell that to your Zionists buddies.

"and then", I have a hard time recalling, in an internet discussion, leaving my adversary so swinging on his own petard.

My I suggest you pray to God and ask where you went wrong?

Have a nice day.

To be Zionist in outlook simply means to believe that the descendants of Israel (Jacob's 12 sons) have a RIGHT deeded by the Creator to that piece of land. You know, that land where all those funny Jewish artifacts are continuously being uncovered? That is all Zionism IS. You use the term as a pejorative, make it seem racist somehow and then say it's impossible to NOT be for equal human rights for all people. You believe Israel is at fault and should be forcibly removed if they won't strike camp and leave on their own I suspect you realize full well what is coming and would not be overly concerned if a few atrocities were committed against those Zionists for their impudence at reclaiming their own. But that is speculation - based on your attitudes displayed here. Oh, and the term is "hoist" on one's own petard - it's difficult to swing from an explosion

[+and-then]

Here's a couple of links, first, Anti-semitism in American universities, and secondly, the rise of anti-semitism in europe, which, BTW, makes Americans look like cub scouts LOL, no offense, Euros.

http://www.israelnat...50#.U4tReyiGdfs

A study of Religious Tolerance on Campus published by the Institute for Jewish & Community Research in December of 2011, entitled “ALONE ON THE QUAD: Understanding Jewish Student Isolation on Campus,” surveyed over 1,400 students in the United States. The Institute, which claims its survey to be one of the largest and most comprehensive of its kind, found that “Over 40% of students confirm Anti-Semitism on their campus.”

http://www.israelnat...50#.U4tReyiGdfs

"Results from the 2013 survey show that anti-Semitic attacks are growing in their intensity and cruelty. The number and type of violent attacks against Jews and Jewish institutions is worsening."

.......

The highest number of recorded incidents comes from France: 116, a rise in violent cases has also been noted in the UK, with 95 cases compared to 84 in 2012, and in Canada, 83 compared to 74; in Germany: 36 compared to 23; 23 in the Ukraine, compared to 15; 15 cases in Russia (11 in 2012), and 14 in Hungary (12 in 2012).

That latter quote is most interesting. Here is America with 310 million people being beat out by the likes of Hungary...? wow.

Anyway, I really thought America was getting bad. The reality is, the US is far behind the curve.

Not so odd really. Americans are are group of "mutts" working together for the gain of themselves - Europeans have always been more given to looking down on the "other" and especially Jews - always the Jews. God said it would happen of course. In fact it was his own curse on them for their disobedience to himself. BUT he also said he'd forgive and bring them back into their own land - 5/14/1948 btw is when THAT prophecy found fulfillment

Most people these days simply overlook just how AMAZING that particular sign of fulfillment was and is.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

To be Zionist in outlook simply means to believe that the descendants of Israel (Jacob's 12 sons) have a RIGHT deeded by the Creator to that piece of land. You know, that land where all those funny Jewish artifacts are continuously being uncovered? That is all Zionism IS. You use the term as a pejorative, make it seem racist somehow and then say it's impossible to NOT be for equal human rights for all people.

That is all Zionism is, huh....? Sorry, but take Zionism to its logical conclusion. If the descendents of Israel do have a right to that piece of land - so says God almighty, when that means they have the RIGHT to throw non-jewish people out of the land. You know what the people of the land say to that...? "My Allah can beat up your God" - and the religious war begins.

Another point: The zionists from Europe are NOT descendents of Israel. There is nothing at all Sephardic about them and although Christians in the West do not know this, believe me - the peoples of the Middle East DO.

Another point,, the House of Judah had various peoples living there until its defeat around 700 A.D., not just Jews. Some of the houses of the Palestinians went back to the time of Christ and were handed down to descendents ever since. The point...? Just because zionists want to name the land "Israel" does not mean they *have* to throw non jews out of the land and leave them homeless. zionists of Europe think that it is their God given right to do so and I think they SUCK

You believe Israel is at fault and should be forcibly removed if they won't strike camp and leave on their own I suspect you realize full well what is coming and would not be overly concerned if a few atrocities were committed against those Zionists for their impudence at reclaiming their own.

Now let me see,, so if "atrocities" are committed against those zionists, is that all of a sudden a crime....? a sin.....? But it is neither a crime or a sin when "atrocities" are committed against muslims?

Yeah, yeah. I get you. It's your version of "equal rights".

But that is speculation - based on your attitudes displayed here. Oh, and the term is "hoist" on one's own petard - it's difficult to swing from an explosion

You "speculate" correctly.

[Yamato]

Not on a college campus. It's the same as a captive audience and no group has a right to single out any other group for unwanted contact - period. This entire issue is about stepping over a line. If that student wants to discuss her ethnicity, politics or her favorite color then that's HER business. No one should be forced into discussing or defending such things. This isn't really even about Israel, it's about common courtesy.

The IDF come to college campuses to find captive audiences, in fact college campuses are the most fertile grounds for recruiting new Zionists around according to Shalom TV.

[Yamato]

To be Zionist in outlook simply means to believe that the descendants of Israel (Jacob's 12 sons) have a RIGHT deeded by the Creator to that piece of land. You know, that land where all those funny Jewish artifacts are continuously being uncovered? That is all Zionism IS. You use the term as a pejorative, make it seem racist somehow and then say it's impossible to NOT be for equal human rights for all people. You believe Israel is at fault and should be forcibly removed if they won't strike camp and leave on their own I suspect you realize full well what is coming and would not be overly concerned if a few atrocities were committed against those Zionists for their impudence at reclaiming their own. But that is speculation - based on your attitudes displayed here. Oh, and the term is "hoist" on one's own petard - it's difficult to swing from an explosion

Respecting human rights when they're not yours is impossible for folks like you when issues like this run you through so badly. No, you don't have to agree with every crap stain policy the Israeli regime comes up with to be a Zionist. You can defend the Jewish Homeland if that's what's important to you in the world but you can do that without being a chronic violator of rights People like you who are so short-sighted and narrow-minded that you can't even entertain alternatives to the status quo is baffling, frankly. I don't know if you're just evil, but you sure might be. What is there to explain such hypocrisy and ignorance? If this nonsense was happening to you, I wouldn't tolerate that nonsense for a minute. Sound familiar?

What are the principles of people who salute every rights violating turd Israel raises up the flagpole?

I only see four:

Racism

Statism

Terrorism

Tyranny

[Yamato]

So far, the European experience has been that the bulk of the anti-jewish attacks come from specific, identified sources, with North African and Arab muslims topping the list.

The protests against Israel you mean? You're surprised that it's Arabs? They're included among those with an actual reason to protest.

[+and-then]

Respecting human rights when they're not yours is impossible for folks like you when issues like this run you through so badly. No, you don't have to agree with every crap stain policy the Israeli regime comes up with to be a Zionist. You can defend the Jewish Homeland if that's what's important to you in the world but you can do that without being a chronic violator of rights People like you who are so short-sighted and narrow-minded that you can't even entertain alternatives to the status quo is baffling, frankly. I don't know if you're just evil, but you sure might be. What is there to explain such hypocrisy and ignorance? If this nonsense was happening to you, I wouldn't tolerate that nonsense for a minute. Sound familiar?

What are the principles of people who salute every rights violating turd Israel raises up the flagpole?

I only see four:

Racism

Statism

Terrorism

Tyranny

The solution you and others here put forward ends with the annihilation of the Jew in Palestine. Nothing less than that. You support people who openly and proudly make this their ultimate goal. You cannot deny this. All of your empty rhetoric about universal human rights comes to nothing when you support such people. I find most of what EoT says distasteful but at least he says what he means. And again with the "Khazar" silliness? The diaspora sent Jews into EVERY nation. Making a distinction of one group based on their origin of Europe is just another way to hate the Jew and deny it at the same time. All these arguments about them being illegitimate overlooks a pretty fundamental reality. God said they'd be dispersed and they were. He said they'd be regathered and they have been. If that displeases you then have a chat with the one responsible for it Look at it from his pov, YOU are attempting to tell HIM how to accomplish his plan - as if you know better or you are more moral. Can you see how that plan might be a little flawed Yam? Or is it that you do not really believe at all? Because if you do and you ignore the scripture this puts you in direct opposition with the Creator. Shaky ground my man.

[Yamato]

The solution you and others here put forward ends with the annihilation of the Jew in Palestine. Nothing less than that. You support people who openly and proudly make this their ultimate goal. You cannot deny this. All of your empty rhetoric about universal human rights comes to nothing when you support such people. I find most of what EoT says distasteful but at least he says what he means. And again with the "Khazar" silliness? The diaspora sent Jews into EVERY nation. Making a distinction of one group based on their origin of Europe is just another way to hate the Jew and deny it at the same time. All these arguments about them being illegitimate overlooks a pretty fundamental reality. God said they'd be dispersed and they were. He said they'd be regathered and they have been. If that displeases you then have a chat with the one responsible for it Look at it from his pov, YOU are attempting to tell HIM how to accomplish his plan - as if you know better or you are more moral. Can you see how that plan might be a little flawed Yam? Or is it that you do not really believe at all? Because if you do and you ignore the scripture this puts you in direct opposition with the Creator. Shaky ground my man.

Where something puts me in your opinion about the Creator doesn't matter to me. If I were to kowtow to that, I'd have to throw out human rights like you have.

Sorry I've never said a word that would harm a hair on a single Israeli's head. I don't violate the rights of other people, that's the only thing my morality has to do with it. If I had to act at all, it would be towards helping other people with preserving or protecting their rights if their rights were under attack. And hoping that I would find fellow travelers if my rights were under attack as well.

Read my threads about the Amendments in the Bill of Rights. Exercising our Fourth Amendment rights is a good start. If you think that Palestinians are some special case for me you haven't been listening to anything I've been saying on the US board. Which I know you have so, you know better than this.

I think having double standards for foreigners that run counter to your own Constitution and rule of law is far deadlier now and far more dangerous tomorrow than having a single standard good enough for humans not different groups of humans.

[+and-then]

Where something puts me in your opinion about the Creator doesn't matter to me. If I were to kowtow to that, I'd have to throw out human rights like you have.

Sorry I've never said a word that would harm a hair on a single Israeli's head. I don't violate the rights of other people, that's the only thing my morality has to do with it. If I had to act at all, it would be towards helping other people with preserving or protecting their rights if their rights were under attack. And hoping that I would find fellow travelers if my rights were under attack as well.

Read my threads about the Amendments in the Bill of Rights. Exercising our Fourth Amendment rights is a good start. If you think that Palestinians are some special case for me you haven't been listening to anything I've been saying on the US board. Which I know you have so, you know better than this.

I think having double standards for foreigners that run counter to your own Constitution and rule of law is far deadlier now and far more dangerous tomorrow than having a single standard good enough for humans not different groups of humans.

You consistently dodge or just give lip service to the notion that Palestinians should be held accountable for their actions in this conflict. Yam their leaders OPENLY state that they want the annihilation of the Jew - they teach their children as toddlers to think of Jews as less than human. All of your talk of rights means nothing when you support such people. You are not a fool, you surely realize the end result should the Palestinians gain the upper hand. Yet you still support them.

[Yamato]

You consistently dodge or just give lip service to the notion that Palestinians should be held accountable for their actions in this conflict. Yam their leaders OPENLY state that they want the annihilation of the Jew - they teach their children as toddlers to think of Jews as less than human. All of your talk of rights means nothing when you support such people. You are not a fool, you surely realize the end result should the Palestinians gain the upper hand. Yet you still support them.

The leaders can't be held to account when any chance of political reform is obstructed by Israeli policy. The 800,000 children in Gaza aren't responsible, they're children.

[RoofGardener]

The leaders can't be held to account when any chance of political reform is obstructed by Israeli policy. The 800,000 children in Gaza aren't responsible, they're children.

Yes, thats true of course. However, what are we to do when - in the case of Gaza - the "leaders" have sworn to an official policy of destroying Israel.

Israel, for its part, is hardly likely to agree to such a policy. What nation would ?

How do we reconcile a situation like that ?

[Yamato]

Yes, thats true of course. However, what are we to do when - in the case of Gaza - the "leaders" have sworn to an official policy of destroying Israel.

Israel, for its part, is hardly likely to agree to such a policy. What nation would ?

How do we reconcile a situation like that ?

Document a situation like that first, so we're not just flapping our gums about it.

And in your case specifically, learn how to respect others enough to be able to honor even the simplest requests.

[+and-then]

Document a situation like that first, so we're not just flapping our gums about it.

And in your case specifically, learn how to respect others enough to be able to honor even the simplest requests.

http://www.palwatch.org

[RoofGardener]

Document a situation like that first, so we're not just flapping our gums about it.

And in your case specifically, learn how to respect others enough to be able to honor even the simplest requests.

Document ? Document WHAT ?

Hamas is the current occupier of Gaza, and has been for many years. Do you require that documenting ?

The Hamas charter is here The bit about destroying Israel is in the first section of the pre-amble, and continues in Section 7 and onwards.

Would you like more recent statements from HAMAS leaders ?

Now, how do we reconcile THAT against Israel's intention to exist ?

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

You consistently dodge or just give lip service to the notion that Palestinians should be held accountable for their actions in this conflict. Yam their leaders OPENLY state that they want the annihilation of the Jew - they teach their children as toddlers to think of Jews as less than human. All of your talk of rights means nothing when you support such people. You are not a fool, you surely realize the end result should the Palestinians gain the upper hand. Yet you still support them.

Would you care to guess how the Pals arrived at that opinion...?

I couldn't be that Zionists treated them - the Pals, less than human, could it?

Maybe, yah??

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

Yes, thats true of course. However, what are we to do when - in the case of Gaza - the "leaders" have sworn to an official policy of destroying Israel.

Israel, for its part, is hardly likely to agree to such a policy. What nation would ?

How do we reconcile a situation like that ?

Do the same thing we did when Zionists swore totally destroy Mandated Palestine.

Snore away!

Edited June 6, 2014 by Earl.Of.Trumps

[+and-then]

Do the same thing we did when Zionists swore totally destroy Mandated Palestine.

Snore away!

Unfortunately that will not be an option much longer. Either a brushfire will erupt into a regional conflict or Israel may finally feel the necessity to deflate Iran's ambitions and start a global conflict. But when the next large dust up happens then I hope Israel forcibly evicts everyone from Judea and Samaria and tells the world to pound sand if they don't like it.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

You want Israel to start a war and commit war crimes?

Jesus Christ man, I thought you were Pro-Israel. If they ever did that their enemies would have all the ammunition they needed to finally and irrecoverably tar them as the villains on the global stage and tie America's hands preventing them from helping Israel.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

Unfortunately that will not be an option much longer. Either a brushfire will erupt into a regional conflict or Israel may finally feel the necessity to deflate Iran's ambitions and start a global conflict. But when the next large dust up happens then I hope Israel forcibly evicts everyone from Judea and Samaria and tells the world to pound sand if they don't like it.

If Israel waits for the dust to settle in Syria, Egypt and elsewhere, they would be in for a real rough ride.

They should act now or probably forget about it.