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Scottish Independence !

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I was just wondering what everyone's views are on scottish independence. should they go independent or not ? would they be better off without England wales and northern Ireland ? or would it be a complete stupid move and totally cripple them for life ? I dont know to much about it myself but from what i hear Scotland would be a very rich country if it was to gain independence and that could only mean good things for scotland ? but again i dont know enough to make a complete decision.

any one have any thoughts on the subject ?

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Better to remain a part of england in this day and age imho.

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Idk. It seems they want to split because of difference of political views. Im normally for this kind of thing because the more localized governments are then the more they actually represent the will of the people.

I also imagine after negotiations are done that trade really wouldn't be much different.

But it dosent matter cause the vote will fail im pretty sure

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What would an independent Scotland do with Balmoral Castle?

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What would an independent Scotland do with Balmoral Castle?

Rent it out at exorbitant prices?

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I was just wondering what everyone's views are on scottish independence. should they go independent or not ? would they be better off without England wales and northern Ireland ? or would it be a complete stupid move and totally cripple them for life ? I dont know to much about it myself but from what i hear Scotland would be a very rich country if it was to gain independence and that could only mean good things for scotland ? but again i dont know enough to make a complete decision.

any one have any thoughts on the subject ?

Scotland would become a backwards nation in Europe if it declared independance:

Operating Costs: When two firms merge they streamline costs by removing duplicated functions like two human resource departments. When they split then departments need creating to replace functions which are now missing. The same applies to countries. The running costs of Scotland from local to national government, from education to policing, would go up.

Oil: BP has stated it would move its head office to London if Scotland declared independance. Firms are not legally obliged to pay corporation tax in any country other than the one in which they have their head office. That means no oil revenues for Scotland going into its coffers.

Currency: The SNPs assumptions that the rest of the UK will do an independant Scotland a favour by sharing its currency with them and footing the bill for doing so are supreme arrogance. I think you'd find public outcry in the rest of the UK would result in Scotland being told to sod off on that one.

The UK would benefit from Scotland declaring its independance as we currently carry them on education and of course the corporation tax from BP would be coming to London. Scotlands GDP would sharply decline and its taxes would have to go up if its to maintain the numbers of people up there going to University.

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Posted (edited)

The enormity of decision being asked of the people of Scotland is not backed up by quality in the debating. both sides are at fault, the SNP Salmonds dont worry about the numbers - just vote YES and we'll worry about it later, and if we cant pay for it, the oil will. - and then you have the 'better together' who should be asking the tough questions, scrutinising the numbers. a perfect example was last week when Alex Salmond said by 2030 Scottish people will be better off by £1,000 'better together instead of asking for the facts and figures they just combated that by announced the Scottish people would be better off by £1,400. in a tit for tat.

If i was making the decision i'd look at the true facts and figures and Salmonds speeches and proposals,both old and new and ask the question do they hold true. an independent Scotland of just 5 million people isn't going to be the same league or standing in the world compared to a Scotland part of the United Kingdom of 58 million. 307 years of togetherness. History, Tradition and Institution.

Countries with roughly the same size population of Scotland. but with different social / industrial and economic situations and dependencies.

20px-Flag_of_Denmark.svg.pngDenmark 5,634,437 April 1, 2014 0.079% Quarterly official estimate 114 23px-Flag_of_Finland.svg.pngFinland 5,456,360 April 30, 2014 0.076% Monthly official estimate 115 23px-Flag_of_Slovakia.svg.pngSlovakia 5,415,949 December 31, 2013 0.076% Official estimate 116 23px-Flag_of_Singapore.svg.pngSingapore 5,399,200 July 1, 2013 0.075% Official estimate 117 23px-Flag_of_Turkmenistan.svg.pngTurkmenistan 5,240,000 July 1, 2013 0.073% UN projection 118 21px-Flag_of_Norway.svg.pngNorway

In terms of GDP. the UK is 6th in the world. member of the G7, G8, G20. NATO, EU, WTO, permanent UN member, singularity of all UN treaties, the ability to go from recession to the fast growing economy in the G7. that is the stability the governance the United Kingdom offers, hard fought for over the centuries, the £ pound sterling one of the worlds oldest tried and tested currencies - the worlds most successful union 307 years and counting. and over the centuries it comes down to this, Alex Salmond is he the person to lead you down a path for which you will never return. he'll happily offer you the land of milk and honey and offer you membership of the club listed below. the question the Scots need to ask themselves is are we prepared for our way of life to change. because guaranteed it will not stay the same as it does today. when the RBS bank needed bailing out it was the Bank Of England. if Scotland was independent at the time unable to bailout would have led to bankruptcy. Scotland with no currency has no control over tax rates and no way of controlling its economy. it would be at the mercy of others. if it needed to borrow it would have to do so on the world markets at 6% not the current 0.5% from the Bank Of England. either way taxes in an independent Scotland would have to rise.

The future Club for Scotland.

GDP compared to countries with similar sized population. +/- 500,000

Norway 23rd.

Denmark 33rd.

Singapore 35th.

Finland 41st.

Slovakia 62nd.

Turkmenistan 90th.

Scotland 112th.

Edited by stevewinn
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Posted (edited)

The thing about this sort of referendum is that those who want independence never finally lose. They can always try again and again and again. You need a vote making independence movements illegal much as is de facto the case now in the States after the Civil War. Further, once the possibility is there, it effects decisions and the Scottish economy will not do as well as if the question were not hanging there -- much as has happened in Quebec.

Another thing -- this splitting effects all of Britain, not just the Scots. It should not pass unless in a favorable vote by the whole nation.

Edited by Frank Merton
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Alex Salmond has painted a picture of Scotland being rich all off the back of North Sea oil. They wont have to pay more taxes and the standard of living will be fantastic. He will also have a good look around the UK's defense facilities and pick out any and all of the items he fancies. Contrary to other members claims they will be able to join the EU immediately and using the pound is their choice not the Bank of Englands.

I do not know, maybe he is telling the truth. If he is then I would say go for it Scotland, seems to be a no brainer.

It all does sound a bit fairy tale perfect to me however, given the state of the world at the moment.

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No, I don't agree with the people in the north of Britain forcing their kin in the south to become a separate country. At the very least we should have a say in the matter.

Remember: it's not north Britain/Albion separating from south Britain/Albion; it's not one ethnic group getting independence from another, it's Britain/Albion, the home for thousands of years of the British/Albions, being divided in two on purely political grounds.

Mind, I blame the Romans - it's no coincidence that the proposed border closely follows the demarcation between the Romanised and non-Romanised parts of thois country, between those who adopted the Roman name, Brittania and those who stuck to our original name, Alba.

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It should be noted however that some Scots have no sense of humour, think that everyone is picking on them all the time, and carry not a chip on their shoulder by a whole hundredweight sack of spuds!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27720606

Maybe they should grow up and get a life! :lol:

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What would an independent Scotland do with Balmoral Castle?

Sell it to the Queen of England
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Sell it to the Queen of England

Or Salmond will claim it His own.

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I am a Scotsman. I know which box I wil lbe crossing!! I will just be glad its over so we can stop having all the propaganda rammed down our throats :)

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I am a Scotsman. I know which box I wil lbe crossing!! I will just be glad its over so we can stop having all the propaganda rammed down our throats :)

can you add a little bit more, which box your exactly crossing and the reasons why.

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Of course, I will be voting yes to an independant Scotland. The main, and probably biggest reason for that is that at the moment, Scotland is governed by a government that we did not vote for. Its been that way since Scotland voted labour in 1997. Thats the last time we were goverened by the party of choice.

The other thing that seems to get lost in everything is that if Scotland vote yes, there will be a general election so that Scotland can choose any party it wants, it doesnt have to be SNP but any other Scottish party. This is not a SNP against Westminister fight, its about the people of Scotland having the freedom to choose.

Thats just me though, I know a few others who will be voting no. Will just have to wait and see what happens :)

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Of course, I will be voting yes to an independant Scotland. The main, and probably biggest reason for that is that at the moment, Scotland is governed by a government that we did not vote for. Its been that way since Scotland voted labour in 1997. Thats the last time we were goverened by the party of choice.

The other thing that seems to get lost in everything is that if Scotland vote yes, there will be a general election so that Scotland can choose any party it wants, it doesnt have to be SNP but any other Scottish party. This is not a SNP against Westminister fight, its about the people of Scotland having the freedom to choose.

Thats just me though, I know a few others who will be voting no. Will just have to wait and see what happens :)

do you know when you say Scotland doesn't get the government it voted for. well join the club, because its only Scotland which enables labour to be elected as a government. we had a labour government twice thanks to the Scottish vote - with Prime minister Tony Blair Born Edinburgh - Scottish, followed by another influenced Scottish vote Labour winning another Election were we got another Scottish Prime Minister Gordon Brown. and you say you dont get the government you vote for. well who does?

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Posted (edited)

And I'll be voting No.

We have our Westminster Parliament, Scottish Parliament, Welsh Assembly, Nothern Irish Assembly, Republic of Ireland Parliament and the Isle of Man and Channel Islands basically govern themselves. How many 'goverments', politicians and civil servants do we need to run this small group of islands, fgs?

If we could all put the past behind us, lose the chips on shoulders and nationalism and unite properly we'd all be better off.

Unity is Strength.

Edited by Eldorado
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And I'll be voting No.

We have our Westminster Parliament, Scottish Parliament, Welsh Assembly, Nothern Irish Assembly, Republic of Ireland Parliament and the Isle of Man and Channel Islands basically govern themselves. How many 'goverments', politicians and civil servants do we need to run this small group of islands, fgs?

If we could all put the past behind us, lose the chips on shoulders and nationalism and unite properly we'd all be better off.

Unity is Strength.

exactly. its Nationalism, somehow like you've said this Island Nation doesn't need separate parliaments its just more waste, how much money does the Scottish parliament and MSP's cost us the tax payer, i bet its hundreds of millions a year, just another layer of bureaucracy. how does the Australian government manage to govern across a country 27 times the size of the UK.

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What I find strange is that the 800,000 Scots resident in the rest of the UK, are not allowed to vote, yet, the 400,000 non-Scots resident in Scotland are allowed to vote. Of these, many will only be temporary residents for work - related reasons - I am trying to determine the Democratic Principle at work in this situation, but am not having any luck...

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do you know when you say Scotland doesn't get the government it voted for. well join the club, because its only Scotland which enables labour to be elected as a government. we had a labour government twice thanks to the Scottish vote - with Prime minister Tony Blair Born Edinburgh - Scottish, followed by another influenced Scottish vote Labour winning another Election were we got another Scottish Prime Minister Gordon Brown. and you say you dont get the government you vote for. well who does?

I certainly didn't get the government I voted for in the USA, trust me.

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Scotland had to make a tactical vote in 97 just to remove the conservatives. I didn't want either of them to be honest but at the time there was little choice.

I have my reasons for voting yes, just as others have for no but I have to ask myself this. If Better together are so much in favour of no split, why the referendum on Europe? Same thing in my opinion.

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Posted (edited)

To be honest I think the largest problem with the independence question is that a vicious romanaticist like Alex Salmond is at the helm.

I can only offer this quote to describe exactly how dangerous independence based on Salmond is:-

"Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first."

Whatever the people decide is their choice, this is a democracy after all. Also this is not the voice of someone totally unaffected by this, I have family born and bred and indeed living in Scotland, and they all loathe the very sight of Salmond.

Good luck Scotland whatever you may decide...

Edited by Silent Trinity
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Scotland had to make a tactical vote in 97 just to remove the conservatives. I didn't want either of them to be honest but at the time there was little choice.

I have my reasons for voting yes, just as others have for no but I have to ask myself this. If Better together are so much in favour of no split, why the referendum on Europe? Same thing in my opinion.

I think the main differences are that the UK is a physical, Political, and Economic Union. The EU is none of these things

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Scotland had to make a tactical vote in 97 just to remove the conservatives. I didn't want either of them to be honest but at the time there was little choice.

I have my reasons for voting yes, just as others have for no but I have to ask myself this. If Better together are so much in favour of no split, why the referendum on Europe? Same thing in my opinion.

We don't have the same customs, habits, beliefs and language as everyone else in Europe. The EEC was fine when it was just a trading partnership.

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