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Still Waters

‘Anti-homeless’ spikes outside London flats

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Metal spikes installed outside a complex of plush London flats, apparently to stop homeless people from sleeping there, have sparked outrage.

The 17-inch long metal studs are embedded in the floor outside a block of luxury flats on Southwark Bridge Road in central London.

http://metro.co.uk/2...utrage-4753547/

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Out of sight out of mind,deter the homeless from sleeping in the view of the public and pretend the problem doesn't exist.

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Posted (edited)

a danger to children, the drunkard, and local animals, and anyone else who are not a homeless person (physically that is)

Edited by ThesillyfunnyguyIDK
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a danger to children, the drunkard, and local animals, and anyone else who are not a homeless person (physically that is)

I like the idea of keeping away undesirable types. No one wants to see them sleeping in their area, leaving dirty needles and empty vodka bottles lying about. To avoid injuries to others maybe the studs should be coated in rubber?

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I like the idea of keeping away undesirable types. No one wants to see them sleeping in their area, leaving dirty needles and empty vodka bottles lying about. To avoid injuries to others maybe the studs should be coated in rubber?

Of course. Because anyone homeless is a drug addict or drunk. Idiot. Tell you what, you spend just one night on the streets and you can comment on where people should and shouldn't sleep.

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Posted (edited)

Of course. Because anyone homeless is a drug addict or drunk. Idiot. Tell you what, you spend just one night on the streets and you can comment on where people should and shouldn't sleep.

Why exactly should we put up with them sleeping on our property? Its not their right.

I agree that not all are alcholics and drug addicts but I think you need to accept that the majority are. WIth no income, or at most Jobseekers, I think you should also realise the amount of crime they commit to feed their habits. Let me ask you if you were a parent would you:

Want your kids finding their dirty needles?

Want the break-ins and thefts from your property?

Want your property prices to decline because no one wants to live in an area litered by tramps?

There are shelters for them, that is where they go, not peoples doorsteps. Studs, rubber coated, save the Police a lot of time having to remove them.

Edited by RabidMongoose
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Why exactly should we put up with them sleeping on our property? Its not their right.

Because you're a human (albeit only technically) and they are fellow humans who need help?

I agree that not all are alcholics and drug addicts but I think you need to accept that the majority are. WIth no income, or at most Jobseekers, I think you should also realise the amount of crime they commit to feed their habits. Let me ask you if you were a parent would you:

Want your kids finding their dirty needles?

Want the break-ins and thefts from your property?

Want your property prices to decline because no one wants to live in an area litered by tramps?

Data? Or is this just your preconceptions? Perhaps if more people like you stopped blaming people and tried helping them, this wouldn't be an issue.

There are shelters for them, that is where they go, not peoples doorsteps. Studs, rubber coated, save the Police a lot of time having to remove them.

Do you have any idea how much of a difference there is between the number of shelter spaces available and the number of people without a home?

Put yourself in their shoes for a moment. It's cold and raining, you've not eaten today but hopefully sleep will give you a short break from the constant ache. Thankfully, you find a covered doorway. The floor's as hard and uncomfortable as anywhere else but at least it's dry. But some b******'s put metal spikes on it simply because they don't want you spoiling the ambience of their exclusive apartments. Oh but it's all fine because these metal spikes are covered in rubber!

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Posted (edited)

Metal spikes installed outside a complex of plush London flats, apparently to stop homeless people from sleeping there, have sparked outrage.

The 17-inch long metal studs are embedded in the floor outside a block of luxury flats on Southwark Bridge Road in central London.

http://metro.co.uk/2...utrage-4753547/

They are nowhere near 17 - inches long! from the photos they are no more than 1,5 inches long and blunt.

I do not want people sleeping on my property, and would take measures to ensure that my environment was safe and secure for my family. There are other options available to the homeless whereby shelter is available, if they are illegal immigrants then they can always hand themselves into the authorities and be housed prior to their eviction from the country.

Any that ARE drug addicts who leave their paraphernalia and needles where children can find them, are no better than vermin

For the indolent I would welcome a return to the Workhouses (modified to be less strict and regimented) whereby food, clothing, education and shelter was given in return for a fair day's work

Edited by keithisco
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Posted (edited)

I can hear injury compensation lawyers rubbing their hands.

Some nice rose bushes would be a better idea.. Those spikes are an eyesore as well as an accident waiting to happen.

Edited by Eldorado
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Posted (edited)

They are nowhere near 17 - inches long! from the photos they are no more than 1,5 inches long and blunt.

Think it's meant to say 17 inch-long. As in 17 spikes, each of which is one inch long.

I do not want people sleeping on my property, and would take measures to ensure that my environment was safe and secure for my family. There are other options available to the homeless whereby shelter is available, if they are illegal immigrants then they can always hand themselves into the authorities and be housed prior to their eviction from the country.

For the indolent I would welcome a return to the Workhouses (modified to be less strict and regimented) whereby food, clothing, education and shelter was given in return for a fair day's work

Read above. Many of these people are not homeless out of choice but because their homes became untenable, often through no fault of their own. If you don't want people sleeping on your property, how about putting the money that you'd spend on spikes or mantraps into a homeless charity to help them get off the streets?

At any rate, I foresee much suing ahead. Could be a pretty good redistribution of wealth actually :)

Edited by Setton
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Because you're a human (albeit only technically) and they are fellow humans who need help?

I can imagine a few people, a few geniune cases, where someone ends up homeless through no fault of their own. However most are down and outs who made poor life choices. I dont care for people like that and find your insults amusing.

Put yourself in their shoes for a moment. It's cold and raining, you've not eaten today but hopefully sleep will give you a short break from the constant ache. Thankfully, you find a covered doorway. The floor's as hard and uncomfortable as anywhere else but at least it's dry. But some b******'s put metal spikes on it simply because they don't want you spoiling the ambience of their exclusive apartments. Oh but it's all fine because these metal spikes are covered in rubber!

Sadly some people learn their lessons the hard way.

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Posted (edited)

They are nowhere near 17 - inches long! from the photos they are no more than 1,5 inches long and blunt.

I do not want people sleeping on my property, and would take measures to ensure that my environment was safe and secure for my family. There are other options available to the homeless whereby shelter is available, if they are illegal immigrants then they can always hand themselves into the authorities and be housed prior to their eviction from the country.

Any that ARE drug addicts who leave their paraphernalia and needles where children can find them, are no better than vermin

For the indolent I would welcome a return to the Workhouses (modified to be less strict and regimented) whereby food, clothing, education and shelter was given in return for a fair day's work

They should be put in workhouses. I suspect that the behavioural and criminal problems a lot of them have would lead to them even ruining that opportunity.

Your reply mirrors my thinking, I agree with you.

Edited by RabidMongoose
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I can imagine a few people, a few geniune cases, where someone ends up homeless through no fault of their own. However most are down and outs who made poor life choices. I dont care for people like that and find your insults amusing.

I repeat: try looking at actual data not your own prejudices.

Sadly some people learn their lessons the hard way.

Quite so. I look forward to the day that applies to you. Assuming you manage to learn anything.

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Think it's meant to say 17 inch-long. As in 17 spikes, each of which is one inch long.

Read above. Many of these people are not homeless out of choice but because their homes became untenable, often through no fault of their own. If you don't want people sleeping on your property, how about putting the money that you'd spend on spikes or mantraps into a homeless charity to help them get off the streets?

At any rate, I foresee much suing ahead. Could be a pretty good redistribution of wealth actually :)

You do not know me so do not assume I do not make charitable donations where I live... I support an orphanage, a charity that rehouses people whose homes have been repossessed by banks, and a charity that provides Vacation Relief to families without the means to do so because their income is so low. These are all in my own area of Spain. It comes to 3 - 5000 euros a month ie more than 15% of my own disposable income, for which I get no Tax Relief.

How about you? Plenty of words, how about your contribution to those in needs as a percentage of your income?

You have now included "Mantraps" in your list of measures against indolents sleeping where they are not welcome, where in the article do I see "Mantraps"?

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I'm not saying the spikes are right or wrong... But I'm a little surprised that if the place were having problems, that they didn't choose to do something more aesthetically pleasing. Like a planter box or a chunky artwork.

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The light of human kindness shines bright on UM, as usual. Get those workhouses up and running!

"800 babies buried in septic tank at Irish home for unmarried mothers"

http://news.msn.com/world/800-babies-buried-in-septic-tank-at-irish-home-for-unmarried-mothers

The Workhouse

http://www.workhouses.org.uk/life/inside.shtml

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I'm not saying the spikes are right or wrong... But I'm a little surprised that if the place were having problems, that they didn't choose to do something more aesthetically pleasing. Like a planter box or a chunky artwork.

I understand what you are saying, but planter boxes or artwork could become targets for vandalism from disaffected youth groups, or just out of spite and envy.

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The light of human kindness shines bright on UM, as usual. Get those workhouses up and running!

"800 babies buried in septic tank at Irish home for unmarried mothers"

http://news.msn.com/...married-mothers

The Workhouse

http://www.workhouse...fe/inside.shtml

Unable to visualise a new system that is run on lines of mutual respect and retraining? Still looking back and Religious Workhouses (often the worst), or Dickensian Workhouse fiction? There has to be a solution, and paying for this should be self - sustaining through the work given by the people housed there. When back on their feet, with saleable skills, then a system of half-way houses could bring the majority back into the mainstream of society. Make it an Holistic experience that addresses the whole person instead of 1 symptom.

Consider them as a "bridge" to re-gaining self respect, and taking their place in a normalised societal framework.

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Here's the Utilitarian argument from Jeremy Bentham;

"Bentham's proposal: To deal with the problem of "proper management", which is the problem of beggars. Create a workhouse in which all these beggars can be employed - a clear illustration of Bentham's logic.

Beggars are bad because it decreases the general social welfare.

Two types of people: a tender person, in whom beggars create a feeling of pain (sympathy); hard- hearted, in whom beggars create a feeling of pain (disgust)

What about beggars' utility? Though many beggars would prefer begging than working in a workhouse, the sum of the pains of other people is greater than the pains of the beggars.

It's a self-financing scheme: Any person/citizen would have the power to apprehend the beggar and take him to the workhouse. The beggar would have a self-liberation account (includes food, clothing, mortgage, etc.) that the beggar would have to work off. Each person/citizen would be paid 20 shillings for their efforts (this would go on the beggar's tab). Bentham thought this would be a humane way to increase the general welfare without diminishing utility (public policy-type solution)."

http://karma-prod.s3...tudy-guide.html

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Unable to visualise a new system that is run on lines of mutual respect and retraining? Still looking back and Religious Workhouses (often the worst), or Dickensian Workhouse fiction? There has to be a solution, and paying for this should be self - sustaining through the work given by the people housed there. When back on their feet, with saleable skills, then a system of half-way houses could bring the majority back into the mainstream of society. Make it an Holistic experience that addresses the whole person instead of 1 symptom.

Consider them as a "bridge" to re-gaining self respect, and taking their place in a normalised societal framework.

Aye.. a new 'modern' workhouse sounds just grand. Would they be run like Mid-Staffs hospital where, in 21st century Britain, desperately ill patients were left to die of thirst while lying in their own faeces? Would a Jimmy Saville or Cyril Smith clone be allowed to visit during the night at his leisure?

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However most are down and outs who made poor life choices. I dont care for people like that and find your insults amusing.

Quite a few ex-military end up homeless in later life, as do those with mental health problems, people who's business's went belly-up, suffered a break down, others turn to drugs through experiences they can't cope with, and others make poor life decisions as you say (the reasons for which are as varied as the people it affects). Having the tools to deal with all the downs life throws at you is not something you are born with, and too many never get taught how to arm themselves with what's needed to get on in life through a mixture of really poor parenting and lack of education.

Those that get on all right in life and then look back at those that haven't with some sort of distain (like the homeless) make me laugh....cause for all you've learnt in life you missed some really basic lessons on not assuming anything about how your life might turn out....any number of things can change things for you - you might even have a break down at some point in life and end up with nothing.

I guess intelligence can bring you success, but it can't buy common sense and simple empathy.

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You do not know me so do not assume I do not make charitable donations where I live... I support an orphanage, a charity that rehouses people whose homes have been repossessed by banks, and a charity that provides Vacation Relief to families without the means to do so because their income is so low. These are all in my own area of Spain. It comes to 3 - 5000 euros a month ie more than 15% of my own disposable income, for which I get no Tax Relief.

How about you? Plenty of words, how about your contribution to those in needs as a percentage of your income?

How about -£9000 total income and £2500 and 4 weeks of my own time dedicated to building accommodation and schooling for those who don't have it. I believe that works out as infinite %.

You have now included "Mantraps" in your list of measures against indolents sleeping where they are not welcome, where in the article do I see "Mantraps"?

It's exaggeration to prove a point. Apparently goes over some heads though.

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Posted (edited)

It's exaggeration to prove a point. Apparently goes over some heads though.

Introducing unconnected issues into a discussion, which we can all see through, doesn't win a debate except maybe in your mind. Neither do insults and neither does getting emotional at people who think differently from you. Would you listen to someone if they were like that with you?

If you think most homeless people are just unlucky (not having made poor life decisions) then please back up your opinion with evidence.

Edited by RabidMongoose
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Aye.. a new 'modern' workhouse sounds just grand. Would they be run like Mid-Staffs hospital where, in 21st century Britain, desperately ill patients were left to die of thirst while lying in their own faeces? Would a Jimmy Saville or Cyril Smith clone be allowed to visit during the night at his leisure?

Incredibly poor response predicated on your own prejudices. Tell you what YOU run them.

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