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OverSword

Obama reflects on gun control's failure

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The president has given up on gun control, now the rest of the liberals just need to step in line.

From the article:

WASHINGTON (AP) — A year ago, on the day a gun control push in the Senate went down in flames, President Barack Obama stood with former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and parents of Newtown victims in the Rose Garden and declared, "This effort is not over."

On Tuesday, a mournful president conceded he was ashamed as an American and terrified as a parent that the United States can't find it in its soul to put a stop to rampant shooting sprees. Barring a fundamental shift in public opinion, Obama said, "it will not change."

"My biggest frustration so far is the fact that this society has not been willing to take some basic steps to keep guns out of the hands of people who can do just unbelievable damage," Obama said.

No developed nation on earth would put up with mass shootings that happen now once a week and disappear from the news within a day, Obama said — no nation except America.

It was a moment of bleak reflection and weary resignation for Obama, who thought universal background checks were the least the country could do after a 20-year-old with a semi-automatic rifle shot his way into a Connecticut elementary school in 2012 and massacred 20 children.

"We should be ashamed of that," Obama said, hours after yet another deadly school shooting, this time in Oregon. "There's no place else like this."

Sounds like he's ashamed to be an American. Oh well, I'm ashamed he's an American too.

Read it here

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He's got ALOT more to be ashamed of! :yes:

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On Tuesday, a mournful president conceded he was ashamed as an American and terrified as a parent that the United States can't find it in its soul to put a stop to rampant shooting sprees.

"My biggest frustration so far is the fact that this society has not been willing to take some basic steps to keep guns out of the hands of people who can do just unbelievable damage," Obama said.

No developed nation on earth would put up with mass shootings that happen now once a week and disappear from the news within a day, Obama said — no nation except America..

"We should be ashamed of that," Obama said, hours after yet another deadly school shooting, this time in Oregon. "There's no place else like this."

Truer words have never been spoken. Maybe the gun nuts will kill themselves.

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Posted (edited)

Truer words have never been spoken. Maybe the gun nuts will kill themselves.

I can see how some would believe that. Not the part about the gun nuts but the section you quoted from the top. Edited by OverSword

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Posted (edited)

We should all be ashamed and appalled at these shootings. What is happening in our country that people think a solution is to pick up a gun and shoot a child? And when we see posts that reflect no grief for the victims and their families, but just another opportunity to attack our President, as if a child's death is besides the point unless it presents another opportunity to be scornful of a politician, as if contempt and scorn is the most pertinent thing? And no suggestions about possible solutions, no, of course not, because apparently that's besides the point, too.

Edited by Beany
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You do bring a good point Beany...and we can also blame our do-nothing Congress for not doing anything.

But so many ppl own guns here, it may be too late for any realistic gun controls. :unsure2:

There are responsible and irresponsible gun owners.

What about the story just out: 2 Men grab a 16 yr old girl in front of her house, hold her a gun-point to make her go back into her house!!! BUT, Her Dad and Mom had seen what was going down, so they grabbed their guns. The Father shot them both, killed one on the spot, the other scrambled away, but was later arrested while in Hospital.

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Posted (edited)

Interesting to note that the forum was hosted via Tumblr and involved its CEO - you know Tumblr one of the largest disseminators of sexual and violent images targeted at children and young teens on the internet. Just for fun I just did a search for "school shootings" on Tumblr and could barely get off the first page before I started seeing posts from people who wanted to m********e to the images of the shooters/victims and just generally glorifying the shooters.

But yeah, guns.

Edited by Rafterman

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seems in line with his cabinet tactic. first he wanted to punish all for crimes of few, not that we did not let him, he blames us all for things few do.

yet not a word on mental health problem we see getting bigger and bigger.

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Also funny how he didn't mention that the rate of shootings and especially mass shootings continues to decrease.

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Posted (edited)

Also funny how he didn't mention that the rate of shootings and especially mass shootings continues to decrease.

Where'd you get that information? I'd like to see the stats. If it's true it's decreasing, I wonder why? Could it be the aging male population, us baby boomers, who have decreased levels of testosterone that often drive violent behavior? Is it declining across all age groups, or just some? All ethnic groups, socio-economic groups, etc? You statement is simple & straightforward, but it leaves a lot of questions unanswered.

That shootings continue to decrease is of little comfort to the families of victims. And we need to figure out how to stop attacks on our school children, the most vulnerable segment of our population, who rely on adults to keep them safe. In this regard, as a nation, we are failing our children.

Edited by Beany

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I don't own any guns and yet despite the truth of beany's 2nd paragraph, am adamant in my wish that the government in no way impede the ability of any qualified American to own a gun or to narrow the description of who is qualified.

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Also funny how he didn't mention that the rate of shootings and especially mass shootings continues to decrease.

I don't really think anything involving mass shootings is funny...but ok...

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First thing I support from this man. Good move. Walk away defeated.

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An interesting series of statements from Barack.

Pardon the cynical view, but I cannot help but wonder if he actually believes the fable of Newtown, or does he actually know that it was a training exercise, a staged event?

Working toward the end of his administrations, I wonder if other moments of candor like this will be forthcoming?

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I don't own any guns and yet despite the truth of beany's 2nd paragraph, am adamant in my wish that the government in no way impede the ability of any qualified American to own a gun or to narrow the description of who is qualified.

What are your views on concepts like background checks or restrictions on gun ownership for people who've been diagnosed with mental illnesses which predispose them to violence?

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Posted (edited)

What are your views on concepts like background checks or restrictions on gun ownership for people who've been diagnosed with mental illnesses which predispose them to violence?

As I stated above

I don't own any guns and yet despite the truth of beany's 2nd paragraph, am adamant in my wish that the government in no way impede the ability of any qualified American to own a gun or to narrow the description of who is qualified.

We have over 20,000 laws concerning fire arms on the books as it is. If this type of thing isn't covered under one or two of them I don't know what to tell you. Edited by OverSword
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As I stated above: I don't own any guns and yet...am adamant in my wish that the government in no way impede the ability of any qualified American to own a gun or to narrow the description of who is qualified.

With the greatest of respect, what do you mean when you say "qualified American"? Does that mean someone who has had a background check or has been diagnosed with a mental illness which predisposes them to violence?

We have over 20,000 laws concerning fire arms on the books as it is.

Can you give me a source for that number, please.

If this type of thing isn't covered under one or two of them I don't know what to tell you.

That even if these issues are covered under current gun laws that doesn't guarantee they're being enforced?

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With the greatest of respect, what do you mean when you say "qualified American"? Does that mean someone who has had a background check or has been diagnosed with a mental illness which predisposes them to violence?

Can you legally buy a gun? Then your qualified. The rest of your question I don't know any specifics about.

Can you give me a source for that number, please.

Sure google is a good source. Go there and type your question

That even if these issues are covered under current gun laws that doesn't guarantee they're being enforced?

I'm not a cop

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Fair enough. It's just that when I google it, I find articles saying the "20000 laws" thing is a myth.

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Fair enough. It's just that when I google it, I find articles saying the "20000 laws" thing is a myth.

They claim it's a myth and then give you no other number though. The truth about the number of laws is that some are federal and some are state to state so no body is going to be regulated by every one of them. So 20,000 may not be entirely accurate but even 10,000 is way too many IMO. When there are 10,000 or 20,000 laws on the books how can anyone know they aren't breaking one? It's pretty stupid. They (legislators) have stupided it up to the point where I don't care what they say as long as they don't pass yet more laws. You will never get rid of guns in the USA and frankly I don't want them to. And judging by the people I know and reading what other Americans type on forums like this one either do most Americans. Sure media or politicians try to tell us that we want stricter gun control but I don't see a lot of evidence indicating that it's true.
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What are your views on concepts like background checks or restrictions on gun ownership for people who've been diagnosed with mental illnesses which predispose them to violence?

The laws are there. The problem is record keeping and cross-referencing between agencies and state to fed exchanging of records. One's mental illness history must be within a federal database to come up in a federal background check. Here's a decent article explaining the intricacies of that statement. http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/30/health/mental-illness-guns/

The biggest and most impossible to curb situation is those who have no record at all or have yet to act or become crazy. There's just nothing anyone can do about that short of Minority Report technology.

Fair enough. It's just that when I google it, I find articles saying the "20000 laws" thing is a myth.

Read within those articles. There is no hard number although several hundred laws seem to be the amount the Feds have on the books but when individual state, county and local laws are combined the number is probably a lot. The origins of the 20,000 laws myth go back to the sixties. It's parroted constantly but is probably more a figure of speech and an exaggerated illustration than a fact.

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The laws are there. The problem is record keeping and cross-referencing between agencies and state to fed exchanging of records. One's mental illness history must be within a federal database to come up in a federal background check. Here's a decent article explaining the intricacies of that statement. http://www.cnn.com/2...l-illness-guns/

The biggest and most impossible to curb situation is those who have no record at all or have yet to act or become crazy. There's just nothing anyone can do about that short of Minority Report technology.

Read within those articles. There is no hard number although several hundred laws seem to be the amount the Feds have on the books but when individual state, county and local laws are combined the number is probably a lot. The origins of the 20,000 laws myth go back to the sixties. It's parroted constantly but is probably more a figure of speech and an exaggerated illustration than a fact.

As for the number of laws, which ones are effective, if any? Which ones are actually being enforced? What's the age range of the laws? Unless these questions, and others, can be answered, the 20,000 is pretty meaningless.

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Posted (edited)

As I stated above We have over 20,000 laws concerning fire arms on the books as it is. If this type of thing isn't covered under one or two of them I don't know what to tell you.

So you would include the mentally ill, physically & mentally, and emotionally disabled folks, those with low IQs, those without the ability to discern hallucinations from reality, those without the capability of understanding the consequences of firearm discharge, let alone the possibility of killing or permanently injuring someone. Those folks, who are less capable in almost every way, we just let them hang in the wind, do whatever they want, and when something goes wrong, throw them in jail? That doesn't strike me as the right thing to do, or even a wise thing to do.

FYI, I myself was almost a victim of a mentally ill person who trained a loaded rifle on me for at least an hour, threatening to kill me, until someone else came home and managed to talk them into handing over the weapon. One of my mother's friends was shot & killed by her husband, another friend, an attorney, was murdered by the angry husband of the women she was representing in a divorce case. For me, this is the real world, and it has nothing to do with idealogy.

Edited by Beany

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Posted (edited)

We should all be ashamed and appalled at these shootings. What is happening in our country that people think a solution is to pick up a gun and shoot a child? And when we see posts that reflect no grief for the victims and their families, but just another opportunity to attack our President, as if a child's death is besides the point unless it presents another opportunity to be scornful of a politician, as if contempt and scorn is the most pertinent thing? And no suggestions about possible solutions, no, of course not, because apparently that's besides the point, too.

Maybe because when a politician starts to speak about sympathy and tragedies it means they want to use it as a weapon to push their agenda. What makes me more appalled then shootings is when politicians try to profit off it, That is why you see the post you do

Obama took a school shooting and tried to use it to push an array of laws and agenda. His "sympathy" is disgusting

Edited by spartan max2
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I'm more ashamed of deaths by motor vehicles than I am of guns. Only around 4-10% of gun deaths are from non gang-related murders. The rest are mostly suicides and the gang members no one cares about.

There's roughly 2000 guns murders per year from non-gang homicide compared to 30-40 thousand car accident deaths. Tell me which is a bigger problem.

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