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Obama reflects on gun control's failure


OverSword

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District of Columbia:

Gun Ownership: 3.6%

Gun Murders (per-capita 100,000): 16.5

Wyoming:

Gun Ownership: 59.7%

Gun Murders (per 100,000): 0.9

And lest you think these two states are outliers, you'd be wrong. Gun ownership has as perfect an inverse correlation to gun murders as any values in any data set I've ever seen.

http://en.wikipedia....States_by_state

Probably doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out, but it does take an honest person to admit it.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list

How about that dataset?

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It's not a US data set. Let's use American data to solve American problems.

Ahh, as expected.

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Ahh, as expected.

Yeah you want to hide from the data broken down by state. You want to hide from a lot of information which couldn't be clearer, so you can play games with a little bit of information (national) and therefore make up whatever reasons for the numbers that you want.

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So crime was low, and then you went shooting.

Yep, in the middle of nowhere, miles from any houses. I did it for fun, not to prepare for a "how I would act in the event of a house invasion" thing.

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Yep, in the middle of nowhere, miles from any houses. I did it for fun, not to prepare for a "how I would act in the event of a house invasion" thing.

That's a different thread, so no worries.

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Yeah you want to hide from the data broken down by state. You want to hide from a lot of information which couldn't be clearer, so you can play games with a little bit of information (national) and therefore make up whatever reasons for the numbers that you want.

And you want to hide from the data broken down my country then. Just seems logical to me that when a country has a problem that other similar countries don't seem to have, you see what the differences are between the two that may be responsible for why they don't suffer the same problems. Perhaps they found a solution you didn't...

Of course, your response is a perfect example of the reason your country will never fix your problem. Instead of having a rational conversation with those of other opinions, you immediately jump to accusations of essentially cowardice... hiding from information...

You're damn right guns aren't the problem in the US. The people seem to be the problem --- people like you. Now go ahead, go cry about my post and act like the victim like I fully expect you to do, despite you instigating this in the first place.

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And you want to hide from the data broken down my country then. Just seems logical to me that when a country has a problem that other similar countries don't seem to have, you see what the differences are between the two that may be responsible for why they don't suffer the same problems. Perhaps they found a solution you didn't...

Of course, your response is a perfect example of the reason your country will never fix your problem. Instead of having a rational conversation with those of other opinions, you immediately jump to accusations of essentially cowardice... hiding from information...

You're damn right guns aren't the problem in the US. The people seem to be the problem --- people like you. Now go ahead, go cry about my post and act like the victim like I fully expect you to do, despite you instigating this in the first place.

Yes I do, because the differences between countries cannot explain the problem in the US like the data from inside the US does. That should matter to you too. But you allow your cursory analysis of national numbers to convince you that what you think the problem is, is the problem. I'm not going to roll dice on your opinions. If you were honest enough to even LOOK at the state data, you'd know better. You can't explain yourself out of that. I don't know if its honesty or intelligence; I think its political or personal obstinance in your case judging by this snippy personal attack you just debased yourself with.

I didn't instigate anything did I? What are you talking about? No, I'm not the problem. I just brought data here and you wipe out on it like it's a freshly mopped floor.

Edited by Yamato
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So, by this "answer" it can be assumed that you wouldn't do what it took to protect yourself and your loved ones. Great to know, you can't be relied on.

I don't live in the wild west fantasy world of paranoia that you do.

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Yes I do, because the differences between countries can't explain the problem in the US like the data from inside the US does.

I didn't instigate anything did I? What are you talking about? No, I'm not the problem. I just brought data here and you wipe out on it like it's a freshly mopped floor.

Data between countries certainly could explain why one country has a problem others don't... I don't see how anyone can argue against that.

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Data between countries certainly could explain why one country has a problem others don't... I don't see how anyone can argue against that.

No it shows that one country has a problem that others don't. It doesn't explain what the problem is. Nice try though.

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District of Columbia:

Gun Ownership: 3.6%

Gun Murders (per-capita 100,000): 16.5

Wyoming:

Gun Ownership: 59.7%

Gun Murders (per 100,000): 0.9

No one lives in Wyoming.

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It's per capita, ninjadude. I would Wiki what it means if I were you.

I realize that but per capita doesn't mean squat when your average gun nut can mow down a target rich environment easier.

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Maybe there's not a lot going on in Wyoming but I'm sure there are still plenty of places where dozens to hundreds of 'targets' conglomerate every single day.

Edited by F3SS
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I realize that but per capita doesn't mean squat when your average gun nut can mow down a target rich environment easier.

So guns in crowded cities are a problem. Better prohibit guns there. Whoops, that doesn't work. Might I suggest moving, then?

Maybe there's not a lot going on in Wyoming but I'm sure there are still plenty of places where dozens to hundreds of 'targets' conglomerate every single day.

It's the entire list of states in the union. Keeping it at Wyoming was a desperate attempt at excusing a perfect inverse correlation across the board.

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You're damn right guns aren't the problem in the US. The people seem to be the problem --- people like you. Now go ahead, go cry about my post and act like the victim like I fully expect you to do, despite you instigating this in the first place.

Wait, what's the problem you're referring to? Us wanting our gun right despite your view point that we pay a price that's too high? So stay in Canada. Who cares what you think. I don't have a problem with you allowing them to strip you of your rights why do you care if I want to do whatever I can to keep mine?

Edited by OverSword
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less than nothing. I'm not suggesting. I'm stating a fact.

No you are stating your CNN ignorance.

Violent Crimes Drop In Texas Under "Concealed Carry" Gun Law

October 13, 2000

In 1995, Texans got the right to carry concealed weapons if they obtained permits to do so. Since then, violent crime rates in the state have fallen.

Here are some of the statistics compiled by the Texas Department of Public Safety comparing crimes in 1995 to those in 1999.

  • Per 100,000 population, rates for aggravated assault fell from 429.3 to 370.
  • Robberies declined from a rate of 179.8 to 146.8.
  • The rape rate was down to 38.1 per 100,000 from 45.5.
  • And murders fell from 9 per 100,000 to 6.1.

Since carrying a concealed weapon in the Lone Star State was legalized, overall violent crimes have declined from 644.2 per 100,000 to 561.

As a group, Texans with concealed-weapon permits are far less likely to commit crimes than other Texans, says Sterling Burnett of the National Center for Policy Analysis. "You don't get a concealed carry permit because you want to commit a crime," he points out. You get one "because you fear crimes against you."

Burnett reports that permit-holders in 1999 were 5.7 times less likely to be arrested for violent crimes than those without permits. They were 14 times less likely to be arrested for nonviolent offenses. And they were 28 percent less likely to be arrested for murder.

Source: Benjamin Kepple, "Texas' Gun-Totin' Ways Hit by Gore, But Data Show Violent Crime Falling," Investor's Business Daily, October 13, 2000.

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=9367

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"Since 1995 when Conceal Carry passed in this state, violent crime has gone down almost 30 percent," Hilton said.

. According to statistics kept by the N.C. Attorney General's Office the raw number of violent crimes – murders, rapes, robberies and aggravated assaults – has dropped. In 1995, there were 45,016 such crimes throughout the state. In 2010, the last year for which state level data is available, there were 34,033 such crimes.

When those numbers are converted into rates that take into account population growth, the violent crime rate dropped from 649 per 100,000 people in 1995 to 374.4 per 100,000 people in 2010. That's a drop of 24.4 percent in terms of the raw number of crimes or a drop of 42.3 percent drop in the violent crime rate.

Read more at http://www.wral.com/news/state/nccapitol/story/11204311/#tQoX8Ur0xelZXfm9.99

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I don't live in the wild west fantasy world of paranoia that you do.

So then you agree that there isn't a problem with "guns".

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No one lives in Wyoming.

Really? Prove it. Not one single human being lives in Wyoming.

Or, is it just because this simple piece of evidence damns your argument, you pretend that it doesn't exist?

You're becoming the zoser of this thread, you know that?

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Wait, what's the problem you're referring to?

The amount of people being killed by guns in your country. You do not see it as a problem?

Us wanting our gun right despite your view point that we pay a price that's too high? So stay in Canada. Who cares what you think. I don't have a problem with you allowing them to strip you of your rights why do you care if I want to do whatever I can to keep mine?

Ahh, yes, the other reason nothing will ever get fixed in your country: Everyone jumps to conclusions regarding what the other believes.

I will stay in my country... but I will continue to discuss the issue as well --- because this is a discussion forum. If you don't like hearing people with opinions other than yours, perhaps you shouldn't be on this forum...

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The amount of people being killed by guns in your country. You do not see it as a problem?

This is where gun control folks just cant seem to get it. People kill people. There is no getting around that. Yes here in the US, people kill people with guns. What you cant seem to grasp is, if we didnt have guns, more people would be murdered simply by other means, knowing people have less means to protect themselfs. Violent crime and murder sky rocketed in not only places in the US that implemented strict gun control, but also in other countries where guns were confiscated. You dont see that as a bigger problem?

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This is where gun control folks just cant seem to get it. People kill people. There is no getting around that. Yes here in the US, people kill people with guns. What you cant seem to grasp is, if we didnt have guns, more people would be murdered simply by other means, knowing people have less means to protect themselfs. Violent crime and murder sky rocketed in not only places in the US that implemented strict gun control, but also in other countries where guns were confiscated. You dont see that as a bigger problem?

No. Maybe because I don't believe in gun confiscation. But keep those assumptions rolling... What else are you going to assume I think?

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That we care what you think. :D Just kidding stellar.

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