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Still Waters

Climate change deniers are ignoring science

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President Barack Obama said denying climate change is like arguing that the moon is made of cheese, as he issued a call for action on global warming to Saturday's graduates of the University of California, Irvine.

Obama told the tens of thousands gathered at Angel Stadium that Congress "is full of folks who stubbornly and automatically reject the scientific evidence" and say climate change is a hoax or fad, while others avoid the question.

http://www.telegraph...ng-science.html

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I think Obama is an idiot and a puppet so he can take his views on climate change and shove where the sun don't shine.

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Oh, mr. president, can we tone the rhetoric down a bit please, it sounds so like a religious doctrine and articles of faith that you have to subscribe to to hold the "correct" views. Is there a creed that you have to recite to prove that you're correctly pure in thought?

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It is interesting to see Australian Prime minister Abbott along with Canada offered us the United Kingdom to them in an alliance against Obama's tax rises and unwise plan to address Global Warming. stupidly the UK said no to joining them. :angry: we should have jumped at the chance, the UK emits 1% of Global C02 why should we put ourselves in economic disadvantage when the USA alone contributes 18%. Yet between ourselves - Australia, Canada and UK. we emit about 4.3%

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Climatgate and other events didn't help my faith in it.... Science is fine but it is ran by humans you know.

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Posted (edited)

Does anyone really doubt that the climate is changing? I don't. I doubt that humans are the driving force behind it.

edit to add obligatory 'Obama is an idiot'.

Edited by OverSword
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It is interesting to see Australian Prime minister Abbott along with Canada offered us the United Kingdom to them in an alliance against Obama's tax rises and unwise plan to address Global Warming. stupidly the UK said no to joining them. :angry: we should have jumped at the chance, the UK emits 1% of Global C02 why should we put ourselves in economic disadvantage when the USA alone contributes 18%. Yet between ourselves - Australia, Canada and UK. we emit about 4.3%

No one ever seems to understand the concept of per capita emissions. Your statement is meaningless unless you grasp what per capita emissions means.

Unfortunately both Canada and Australia have elected right wing administrations who have followed the US Republican lead on science denial. Ideology over evidence its the conservative way :tu:

Br Cornelius

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No one ever seems to understand the concept of per capita emissions. Your statement is meaningless unless you grasp what per capita emissions means.

Unfortunately both Canada and Australia have elected right wing administrations who have followed the US Republican lead on science denial. Ideology over evidence its the conservative way :tu:

Br Cornelius

that's why your on the forum to enlighten us all. everyone's post are meaningless to you except your own. you can do it per capita if you choose. you just burden many of the poor countries. shame on you. but that's the mentality the proponents of climate change. its a good job these fanatics are not in charge they'd bankrupt the country to save a tree.

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that's why your on the forum to enlighten us all. everyone's post are meaningless to you except your own. you can do it per capita if you choose. you just burden many of the poor countries. shame on you. but that's the mentality the proponents of climate change. its a good job these fanatics are not in charge they'd bankrupt the country to save a tree.

per capita comparisons favour poorer countries since they always have lower per capita emissions. This is the point - only by offering equity to every citizen of the world to make a fair and equal contribution to the overall emissions we are allowed can we hope to lower overall emissions whilst simultaneously allowing development in the poorest countries.

Br Cornelius

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Does anyone really doubt that the climate is changing? I don't. I doubt that humans are the driving force behind it.

edit to add obligatory 'Obama is an idiot'.

To be honest, the greenhouse effect is very basic science. To deny the fact that we have been the most recent cause behind it is absurd.

But even if that were not the case, the fact that the climate is noticeably changing should give us enough to pause to consider doing something to mitigate further changes that will damage our civilization.

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per capita comparisons favour poorer countries since they always have lower per capita emissions. This is the point - only by offering equity to every citizen of the world to make a fair and equal contribution to the overall emissions we are allowed can we hope to lower overall emissions whilst simultaneously allowing development in the poorest countries.

Br Cornelius

where does China rank when emissions are calculated by country - compared to per capita. what is the difference, and do the same for Australia. what happens?

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To be honest, the greenhouse effect is very basic science. To deny the fact that we have been the most recent cause behind it is absurd.

But even if that were not the case, the fact that the climate is noticeably changing should give us enough to pause to consider doing something to mitigate further changes that will damage our civilization.

I didn't say we are not contributing, I believe that we do affect the climate. I do not believe that we are the main or even a very large factor and also believe it will happen regardless of what we do. However, I'm always for more environmentally friendly ways of doing things and I witness that we are constantly doing more and more of this at least where I live. People like the president that want to make huge sweeping debilitating changes right fricking now are extremist idiots. But what would ou expect from the puppet in chief?

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I didn't say we are not contributing, I believe that we do affect the climate. I do not believe that we are the main or even a very large factor and also believe it will happen regardless of what we do. However, I'm always for more environmentally friendly ways of doing things and I witness that we are constantly doing more and more of this at least where I live. People like the president that want to make huge sweeping debilitating changes right fricking now are extremist idiots. But what would ou expect from the puppet in chief?

I don't think the problem is the president wanting to make sweeping changes. We should make sweeping changes and we should do it now, but that's not the problem. The problem bis that more than half of the people that are in power and could do something pretend like there is nothing going on. Climate change is going to start having major effects and these people still will just ignore it.

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where does China rank when emissions are calculated by country - compared to per capita. what is the difference, and do the same for Australia. what happens?

China has a per capita emission rate of about 3-4tonnes. Australia has one of the highest at about 20tonnes.

Sustainable emissions levels for the future are about 2tonnes per capita, which allows much of Africa and India to increase emissions along with their standard of living.

Those figures are off the top of my head - but are in the right ball park. More accurate figures are available at Wiki.

Br Cornelius

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Very odd that the first thread I find on this was only posted today, because today I had an interesting experience that prompted me to look for a thread in which to relate it.

Today, I was out hitting some garage sales that I'd missed yesterday. one of which turned out to be held by a guy to used to work on my mother's car. We fell to chatting and in the course of conversation I made the mistake of mentioning global warming, jokingly mind you. Well, this guy immediately responded that global warming wasn't real. Knowing that I can't argue these kind of things face to face, I proceeded to deflect as best I could while he presented his point of view

What does the government do, he said, when they want people to do things? Manipulate the facts . He knew better because he'd talked to this other guy , from NYC I think he said, who was an expert. According to this this expert and his buddies, there was no global warming. What was happening instead was the earth was tilting on it's axis. (for a moment I thought sure he was talking about a pole shift.) It wasn't going to happen overnight or even in our lifetimes probably but it would keep tilting until eventually New York was like Florida and Florida was like New York.

And they should know, my informant assured me in so many words, because they were alchemists...

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where does China rank when emissions are calculated by country - compared to per capita. what is the difference, and do the same for Australia. what happens?

Glad you brought up China. By exporting its manufac6turing to China, the US also exports its pollution and greenhouse emissions. So how do we get China to reduce its pollution? Quit buying products from them. Quite simple, really.

Doug

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President Barack Obama said denying climate change is like arguing that the moon is made of cheese, as he issued a call for action on global warming to Saturday's graduates of the University of California, Irvine.

Obama told the tens of thousands gathered at Angel Stadium that Congress "is full of folks who stubbornly and automatically reject the scientific evidence" and say climate change is a hoax or fad, while others avoid the question.

http://www.telegraph...ng-science.html

Climate change is natural and as nothing to do with global warming or what man is doing, the earth just has its cycles. Global warming was around before man ever existed

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Climate change is natural and as nothing to do with global warming or what man is doing, the earth just has its cycles. Global warming was around before man ever existed

Care to show what natural cycle is causing it, or is it one of those magic cycles that has appeared out of nowhere.

What you just said is easy to say and easy to avoid supplying "any" supporting evidence and that is why it is complete and utter bull****.

Br Cornelius

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Posted (edited)

There are so many unknown factors in the Global Warming debate, that I just leave it alone instead of talk about it. I like knowing everything I can about an subject before I thrust myself head long into the debate, but this is one that will make both parties look stupid. Interestingly there is data to back up that the earth has wild swings in temps, it is called Milankovitch cycles which rely around the shifting of the poles. You would think if the Earth's shift poles, the Ice Caps would melt and relocate to an different part of the world where the new poles are. It would be slow and take thousands of years.

For this to happen, you would think the Earth would have to heat up first before all that ice moves to another location... we are due another ice age which has been stated by Scientists over and over. I just think we are accelerating the melting of the ice and displacement of large bodies of water during this transition period which can have devastating effects to local eco systems on islands. This is an theory, but it isn't something you should take to heart. No one knows for sure if this is really global warming or just some pompous being spouted out by political parties. I find my theory more plausible than humans being the sole contributor of global warming and changing of the landscape. We are not that powerful of species that we can change the whole dynamic of the planet by ourselves.

Edited by Uncle Sam

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, it is called Milankovitch cycles

No. climate scientists are well aware of these and many more that you are not. The climate is still being forced over and above all known factors. By a large margin.

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I don't understand why this subject has become a left or right debate.

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Because the right made it so.

Br Cornelius

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per capita comparisons favour poorer countries since they always have lower per capita emissions. This is the point - only by offering equity to every citizen of the world to make a fair and equal contribution to the overall emissions we are allowed can we hope to lower overall emissions whilst simultaneously allowing development in the poorest countries.

Br Cornelius

I think the emissions per country is more important in this case because laws are made for the country not per capita. I think the higher emitting countries should pass the laws first. But I also think that these laws should not cripple an economy.

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