Isis seizes Saddam's chemical weapons cache

[Socio]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/10910868/Iraq-crisis-Obama-may-launch-air-strikes-without-Congress-amid-calls-for-Maliki-to-go-live.html

17.09 Chemical weapons produced at the Al Muthanna facility, which Isis today seized, are believed to have included mustard gas, Sarin, Tabun, and VX.

Why weren't these WMDs destroyed a long time ago?

[shrooma]

what, those WMD's that didn't exist....?

.

[DeWitz]

The poison gas was bartered to Iraq by Reagan during the '80's Iran-Iraq war as a hedge against Iran. It is a good question why these particular weapons were not destroyed during the US occupation. The alleged WMD touted by Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld referred to purported nukes and bio-weapons which were never uncovered (rumored by some to have been transferred to Syria or elsewhere before the invasion, but this was never proven). Remember "yellowcake!" and "We're not gonna wait until there's a mushroom cloud. . ."

Edited June 20, 2014 by DeWitz

[libstaK]

Um ... the facility is not functioning and full of disused, dismantled and degenerated residuals.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/10913275/Isis-storms-Saddam-era-chemical-weapons-complex-in-Iraq.html

From the article;

“The only people who would likely be harmed by these chemical materials would be the people who tried to use or move them,” the military officer said.

Hush .... nobody tell ISIS that mmmkay?

[Yamato]

what, those WMD's that didn't exist....?

.

Nope, it's the WMDs that "did". You know, lame excuses to start another war over.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

Some people in here are silly enough to believe the invasion of Iraq was to take WoMD away from Saddam.

tee-hee, silly wabbits!

[+OverSword]

Nope, it's the WMDs that "did". You know, lame excuses to start another war over.

this. It's their back door to Syria.

[bubblykiss]

Some people in here are silly enough to believe the invasion of Iraq was to take WoMD away from Saddam.

tee-hee, silly wabbits!

And here I was thinking it was a petty revenege mission designed to be a quick and cheap victory for a president that was destined to be an overwhelming failure.

That is unless he picked a war with a small nation that could be beatene with great ease.

[+and-then]

And here I was thinking it was a petty revenege mission designed to be a quick and cheap victory for a president that was destined to be an overwhelming failure.

That is unless he picked a war with a small nation that could be beatene with great ease.

The nation WAS beaten with ease. The insane ideology will never be defeated because you can't save people from stupid or mean. And cynical barbs about a failed (stupid) policy in Iraq might feel good to beat people over the head with, but the problems over there are REAL and eventually will be dealt with or we will feel their bite here at home again. I have no idea how to deal with them other than to strike where they gather and weaken them as they try to build strength. Invading the country was useless - breaking their stuff can be done cheaper and with less risk.

[jeem]

My my so that WMD story was true after all and so Iraq invasion was right.

lolzzzzzzzzzzzz :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t:

[+and-then]

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRk89PUVBpPQz7ke6iQ9ukryV88avhhkfOzmYecc0Nr7mcoCO1a

Yeah! It's not like a dictator in the region would ever USE chemical weapons...

[RavenHawk]

The poison gas was bartered to Iraq by Reagan during the '80's Iran-Iraq war as a hedge against Iran.

Where it came from doesn’t really matter. Arms are a commodity bought and sold on the market. But we did support Saddam in 1980, looking for a counter to Iran. It was a popular move; I even have a board game called “Oil War” in which Iraq was basically the hero. It didn’t take long to discover Saddam’s character at which point we pulled that support. France continued their relationship eventually leading to building a nuclear power plant which could be used to produce U235. Israel later took this reactor out. Saddam still explored all sorts of WMD, how to acquire them, and how to develop them. Each program was transient so that Israel or any other group couldn’t easily take them out.

It is a good question why these particular weapons were not destroyed during the US occupation.

Because it was determined that the condition of this site is deteriorating and would pose a danger to anyone messing with it. This is from the view point of organizations that spend great expense at maintaining safety procedures for workers and the environment. Plan Work, Evaluate Risk, Implement Controls, Perform Work, and Improve Process which oddly enough is part of “Integrated Safety Information System”. How many other sites are in a state of deterioration?

I’m sure that ISIS has personnel that will enter the site and mine what they can as safely as possible. I hope that people don’t think that ISIS is a mob of ignorant ragheads? These people are highly intelligent and educated and very dedicated and motivated. They are well trained and well lead probably backed by Saudi Arabia. And probably have Pakistani weapon scientists on their payroll.

The alleged WMD touted by Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld referred to purported nukes and bio-weapons which were never uncovered (rumored by some to have been transferred to Syria or elsewhere before the invasion, but this was never proven).

Just as this chem. stockpile was never really revealed, the location of weapon systems that made it to Lebanon are known at the state level but not to the general public. The revised 2005 NIE (you do know what this is?) didn’t deny the existence of WMD, it only cut back on how extensive it was. Saddam’s programs were transient which requires a different way of thinking about them. But most people tend to forget that as long as Saddam was in power, these transient programs would continue and he would have assistance from nations like France. France was heavily into the idea of using Iraq to counter Iran. We really didn’t need another Pakistan/India, do we? And much less stable.

Remember "yellowcake!"

Clearly! 500 tons was found. If I remember correctly, you just need about 10 tons of yellowcake (60kg U235) to make a 20kt yield bomb?? The hard part is weapons grade enrichment. It could take up to a year to enrich enough yellowcake to make a bomb. Since his reactor had been destroyed, Saddam was working on acquiring centrifuges for enrichment. He was trying to find poor man techniques to enrich. Now we say that he was perhaps a decade behind the Iranians. The latest NIE on Iran stated that they did stop their program in 2003 but has since restarted it.

The bottom line here is that I think that ISIS is perhaps the manifestation of Sunni fear against Iran and that the ultimate goal is to attack and take out the theocracy in Tehran. And I think a deal has already been made with Israel to either help or stay out. I think we should do the same. I can’t stand that thought because of the sacrifice we made but that is on Obama. I think he’ll be brought up on charges of treason among others when he is out of office, if he survives. We might find ourselves as the catalyst that kicked started the system (Islam) into self regulation. Hopefully this will also lead to reforms in the faith. If this is so, then we need to take steps to build bridges. But we may never know their final goal is until it’s too late.

[DeWitz]

@RavenHawk--National Intelligence Estimates have not always been so intelligent. I respect your point of view, but if you think Obama should be tried for treason, you might consider whether W. and Cheney (maybe Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz) should be tried in The Hague for war crimes. I have never heard anything about 500 tons of yellowcake; only the vial Colin Powell presented to the UN in his self-admittedly misleading speech.

I can't imagine that any form of war, combat or armed intervention can be a catalyst or "lead to reforms in the (Islamic) faith," as you suggest. That seems like a curious form of international idealism not likely to bear fruit with such fanatical believers.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

And here I was thinking it was a petty revenege mission designed to be a quick and cheap victory for a president that was destined to be an overwhelming failure.

That is unless he picked a war with a small nation that could be beatene with great ease.

Personally, I like the "Profit" motive for the military industrial complex, but I admit to being a biased hippie from the Vietnam war era.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

The nation WAS beaten with ease. The insane ideology will never be defeated because you can't save people from stupid or mean. And cynical barbs about a failed (stupid) policy in Iraq might feel good to beat people over the head with, but the problems over there are REAL and eventually will be dealt with or we will feel their bite here at home again. I have no idea how to deal with them other than to strike where they gather and weaken them as they try to build strength. Invading the country was useless - breaking their stuff can be done cheaper and with less risk.

Well, it is obvious to me - and maybe most, we can crush them militarily but we cannot change their mind.

They want us OUT of their region of the world, because contrary to American popular opinion, we are NOT there to save those people, we are not there to help those people, we are there to secure the safety and betterment of Israel and they know it.

This, of course, means an endless cascading of strife upon innocent Muslims in the region, particularly the Pals

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

My my so that WMD story was true after all and so Iraq invasion was right.

lolzzzzzzzzzzzz :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t:

lol, you know what I get a kick out of...?

When war broke out in Syria 3 years ago, Israel attacked Syrian WoMD caches when they were being transported to safer areas of the country so they would not fall into the wrong hands. Does this not demonstrate that if Hussein had had WoMD Israel would have struck them, too?

Also, George Bush said that Iraq had nuclear facilities, and again - Israel bombed and destroyed an Iraq nuclear power plant back in the '80s, so wouldn't it make sense that Israel would never let Iraq get as close to making a bomb as to what Iran is now? Yet Israel never made a move, never said a word about Iraq's WoMD capability. Hmmm, like the cat that ate the canary.

It was all a canard.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

@RavenHawk--National Intelligence Estimates have not always been so intelligent. I respect your point of view, but if you think Obama should be tried for treason, you might consider whether W. and Cheney (maybe Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz) should be tried in The Hague for war crimes. I have never heard anything about 500 tons of yellowcake; only the vial Colin Powell presented to the UN in his self-admittedly misleading speech.

I can't imagine that any form of war, combat or armed intervention can be a catalyst or "lead to reforms in the (Islamic) faith," as you suggest. That seems like a curious form of international idealism not likely to bear fruit with such fanatical believers.

Well, let's be somewhat fair here. After the first 4 years of W, Powell quit the administration, and later, stopped being a Republican.

Powell did say that when he gave his famed speech at the UN, some of the damaging intel he reported to the UN body, the CIA already knew to be bogus, but Powell was not told that. They really screwed Powell and that is why he got out of it completely.

[regeneratia]

http://www.telegraph...to-go-live.html

Why weren't these WMDs destroyed a long time ago?

Because they are no longer active? Why bother?

[regeneratia]

Some people in here are silly enough to believe the invasion of Iraq was to take WoMD away from Saddam.

tee-hee, silly wabbits!

i honestly believe that we have to question whether this report in the thread is true. We know the media lies, lies without compunction. We KNOW governments lie, and lies without compunction.

Edited June 21, 2014 by regeneratia

[regeneratia]

The nation WAS beaten with ease. The insane ideology will never be defeated because you can't save people from stupid or mean. And cynical barbs about a failed (stupid) policy in Iraq might feel good to beat people over the head with, but the problems over there are REAL and eventually will be dealt with or we will feel their bite here at home again. I have no idea how to deal with them other than to strike where they gather and weaken them as they try to build strength. Invading the country was useless - breaking their stuff can be done cheaper and with less risk.

It failed. totally failed. But all Bush did has been major fail.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

i honestly believe that we have to question whether this report in the thread is true. We know the media lies, lies without compunction. We KNOW governments lie, and lies without compunction.

Absolutely. How many times in here I have tried to correct posters that the famed Iraq genocide of Kurds thru chemical weapons never actually happened. Supposedly, 100,000 civilians were killed in this attack. An American reporter noticed that the story got a lot of play in the West but not ME media outlets, so he went to investigate himself.

Nada! never happened.

Yet many people only remember the robust reports of genocide, not the "dimly lit" rebuttal

Propaganda works.

[regeneratia]

Absolutely. How many times in here I have tried to correct posters that the famed Iraq genocide of Kurds thru chemical weapons never actually happened. Supposedly, 100,000 civilians were killed in this attack. An American reporter noticed that the story got a lot of play in the West but not ME media outlets, so he went to investigate himself.

Nada! never happened.

Yet many people only remember the robust reports of genocide, not the "dimly lit" rebuttal

Propaganda works.

And what if David Perle found out that there were no WMDs in Iraq, which would have been some of the last additions to his knowledge base? Just what if?

I think this is a lie by the governments and the media. I will not take this story seriously and will be calling Congressmen to INSTRUCT them that we are not to send any more troops to the Bush follies of the Iraqi invasion and occupation. What? I called it a folly. Correction: the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq was a drunken joyride Bush took this country on, with copious torture photographs to make him HAPPY at night.

Edited June 21, 2014 by regeneratia

[+OverSword]

we are there to secure the safety and betterment of Israel and they know it.

We're there to secure financial interest of big oil and gas. It's money. It's always money. Every single war was because some extremely wealthy entities financial interests are at stake.

Edited June 21, 2014 by OverSword

[regeneratia]

We're there to secure financial interest of big oil and gas. It's money. It's always money. Every single war was because some extremely wealthy entities financial interests are at stake.

Not to mention rebuilding a new Tower of Babel, the large fiber optic hub that feeds Asia. Remember those "communication contracts"?

Edited June 21, 2014 by regeneratia

[Yamato]

Personally, I like the "Profit" motive for the military industrial complex, but I admit to being a biased hippie from the Vietnam war era.

The profit motive is one aspect. It feels ridiculous when supposed free market people come and try to sell me on these endless govt policies. If half of them even saw a free market they wouldn't even recognize what they were looking at. Free trade involving Cuban cigars (awesome) or Persian rugs (also awesome) aren't in style enough for the right-wing free-market Fashionista. Because they're slaves to their own politics, they support the og nogs over the glip gnobs, and if I don't get in line with it they act like I'm the one with the problem. The capacity of people to just get behind whatever it is their govt tells them to is incredible. Even a foreign govt. Then it's even more incredible.