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Still Waters

'Enigma Man' may be new human species

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Posted (edited)

Fresh light on China's Red Deer Cave People raises big questions.

Has an Australian scientist been instrumental in helping discover a new species of human? And what does this mean for our understanding of human evolutionary history? These are two questions at the heart of a new documentary screening this week on ABC1.

http://www.smh.com.a...0616-zs9dz.html

http://www.cryptozoonews.com/enigma-man/

Edited by Still Waters
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Yeah, I also happen to have a link. I love it when they make one discovery, then they ignore it, and make another, opposing "discovery". It's like when they forget to mention Gobekli Tepe in the history books. Gotta love it. Anyway, my link is:

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/oct/17/skull-homo-erectus-human-evolution

Now work these two out, will ya?

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Well, time to begin the family outing. Hello, cousins from beyond our time! Would you like toNO NO WE USE FORKS NOT OUR HANDS BESIDES JELL-O ISN'T THAT INTERESTING

Woah, this is my 100th comment ever. Eh, that's cool.

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Super cool discovery. I look forward to reading more about these people.

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Posted (edited)

Hi Rolci,

There have been several hominid groups occupying areas of Asia for a long time. some. Differences between skulls does not mean that they belong to different hominid lines.The article that you have posted is from a different location and time frame so it is expected that there would be some morphology given the time difference and possible interbreeding with other groups.There are cranial difference with the skeletal artifacts found in Georgia and it has been determined that these difference fall within accepted variation of a hominid group.

I am adding a couple of links and later when I have a little more time I will add a couple more

http://www.livescience.com/38917-early-humans-lived-in-china.html

http://www.livescience.com/22198-new-human-species-discovered.html

jmccr8

Edited by jmccr8
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Posted (edited)

This has to have some dogmatic science skeptics soiling their britches. However, I have suspected this as a possibility for quite some time.

Edited by regeneratia

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What do you suppose the differences are, the ones only slightly mentioned in the article?

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What I find interesting is that everyone can understand and agree that there are like 5 different Species of snub-nose monkey in Southern Asia, but some people have a real and dramatic problem if you suggest there might have been 2 or 3 species of hominid living there at some point. How would isolated populations of humans not evolve differently into new species just as a monkey does?

Humans have only stopped differentiating due to the ease of travel over the last 2000 years.

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Hi,

I am adding these three links,two of which are about Neandertal but they will serve the purpose of illustrating how/why we find these differences within a hominid group.The third link is about the site and skeletal artifacts found in Georgia.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0005151

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/06/140619142204.htm

http://phys.org/news/2013-10-18m-year-old-skull-glimpse-evolution.html#nRlv

http://www.livescience.com/40505-earliest-humans-one-species.html

I added a forth link to expand on the information.

jmccr8

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I always thought there had to be different species of humans early on. This explains differnt body features better than the "they developed as needed to suit the environment", theory.

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This has to have some dogmatic science skeptics soiling their britches. However, I have suspected this as a possibility for quite some time.

I don't

think that anyone who studies or follows human evolution is the least bit surprised or upset that this may be another hominid.

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Very cool find,I hope they find more of these in other caves

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I always thought there had to be different species of humans early on. This explains differnt body features better than the "they developed as needed to suit the environment", theory.

That's not how evolution works. You are suggesting Lamarckian evolution which was shown to be wrong. It is the idea that the giraffe has a long neck because it was trying to reach the upper branches of the trees.

Modern evolution suggests that those that survived were better adapted. So giraffes have a longer neck because longer necked creatures survived.

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This has to have some dogmatic science skeptics soiling their britches.

Why?

It's not what happened when the existence of Homo floresiensis (the hobbits of Flores) was announced.

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Just Piltdown Man and his family on their annual holidays.

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Posted (edited)

Why?

It's not what happened when the existence of Homo floresiensis (the hobbits of Flores) was announced.

I don't keep track of what is accepted and what is not. I find my own thinking regarding this issue, from my own perspectives. Long ago, I found that science news is serious screened, meaning someone else determines what I can and cannot know. I simply don't allow that to happen anymore. I go to research embargo sites where the news gets their news.

Several different sites like this:

http://www.eurekalert.org/pubnews.php Where I can do my own screening from the knowledge base.

Nice read:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/18/science/fossil-skull-may-rewrite-humans-evolutionary-story.html?_r=0

Edited by regeneratia

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What do you suppose the differences are, the ones only slightly mentioned in the article?

What I wonder about is what decides that these hominids are to be considered species of their own as opposed to races of humans? 11,000 years really isn't that long ago relatively speaking, I wonder what the key differences between them and us were, did they have the power of speech to the degree we do, would they have been able to produce fertile offspring with humans like Neanderthals were, things like that.

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In this particular case, it's likely just reproductive isolation, but being that we have a grand total of five samples of the new guy, and not that many samples of the mainstream hominids, there's definitely nothing...definite.

I suspect it's just scientific conservatism. It's a little presumptuous to claim that is part of a known evolutionary line without having all the data to support it, so they tentatively call a different species.

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Posted (edited)

Eventually they will do DNA sequencing and be able to statistically tell the world if this was a seperate species or just an appearance outlier of a known species.

Maybe they are Denisovan? The identity of the Denisovians as a seperate species was from a toe bone, so we don't know what their skulls would have looked like. And the Denisovans interbreed with some of the Asian peoples, so they were in Asia.

Edited by DieChecker
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This has to have some dogmatic science skeptics soiling their britches. However, I have suspected this as a possibility for quite some time.

You appear to be overly excited. It's not surprising at all that other species of humans existed at the same time we did.

We already knew of several.

Harte

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Posted (edited)

This has to have some dogmatic science skeptics soiling their britches. However, I have suspected this as a possibility for quite some time.

For the purposes of clarification, the reason these five skulls are significant is because they indicated that the multiple African hominids we knew of were not actually separate species. Rather, the African line seems to be a single branch, with neanderthal, florensis, and now possibly Dmanisi (not officially named yet) as separate branches. There's a fourth candidate, but as all we have is a finger bone, we'll wait on that one.

So, yeah, this is a surprise to anthropologist, but it is because they were thinking that rudolfensis, habilis, and ergaster, were separate species, where now the evidence seems to point to all of them being one and the same (I believe habilis has seniority in terms of name). Multiple human species has been the mainstream opinion (or "dogma", if you are of that persuasion) for a bit over 50 years.

Edited by aquatus1
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What do you suppose the differences are, the ones only slightly mentioned in the article?

RDCP.jpg

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That Documentary is on here tomorrow night for any Aussies viewing this. It will be on ABC1 8:30 PM LINK.

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Very interesting. :tu:

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