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Chris Raj

Slavery DOES exist

33 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Greetings, my good people!

The recent research about Free Will being nothing but background noises in your Brain sparked a question that i lay before you, as you read forth this post.

Before we begin, i would like to kindly request anyone attempting to answer, to just stick to the topic (as much as you can, by avoiding Free Posting). Thank you :)

Ok.

We know that a Brain is different from the Mind. The Body cannot live without the Brain & vice-versa. It's fairly obvious that our Brains tell us what we need to do when we're alive. The Body is just a vessel for the Brain to survive. Time & Visual reality are grand illusions. Ergo, we are born slaves.

Subsequently,

1. If our Brain controls us & we are Slaves to it, can Suicide or Organic Death in any form be justified as means of breaking the shackles of Slavery? Is that ultimate freedom for mankind?

Since time immemorial, we're told that Life is better than Death. What if it's the other way around?

(*** And if you consider Self-Control. By it's very means, we go to war with our own thoughts. Is it right to say that we try to reprogramme our Brain to NOT do something we deem unhealthy? If so, what is making us do that? Is it the Brain? Essentially, does the Brain go against it's own mechanism?)

Your thoughts, please..

And thanks in advance.

Edited by Chris Raj
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No free posting? You a slave driver or summat?

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No free posting? You a slave driver or summat?

Do as your told eld,before he starts with the jedi mind tricks.... :unsure2:

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The human brain is anything but right all the time, It can be tricked, it can mix things up, it can have severe problems. The being a slave to it is in my opinion correct. Although it may be right in telling you what to do in most cases, there are many illnesses that the brain can have that put you in a totally false world.

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...if you consider Self-Control. By it's very means, we go to war with our own thoughts. Is it right to say that we try to reprogramme our Brain to NOT do something we deem unhealthy? If so, what is making us do that? Is it the Brain? Essentially, does the Brain go against it's own mechanism?)

What's causing that wiling reprogramming is memory of negative aspects of whatever action you are trying to control, which are usually unconscious or natural tendencies, which have been allowed to run without conscious direction. I feel that self control is a result of the person learning, as opposed to acting on auto pilot. Unconscious decisions vs. conscious decisions.

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What's causing that wiling reprogramming is memory of negative aspects of whatever action you are trying to control, which are usually unconscious or natural tendencies, which have been allowed to run without conscious direction. I feel that self control is a result of the person learning, as opposed to acting on auto pilot. Unconscious decisions vs. conscious decisions.

Okay. From what I gathered, the Brain realizes the errors made. Conscious Direction still does require the Brain. Hence, it tries to reprogramme itself through Self-Control.

As Humans, we practise self-control almost every day.

Ergo, our Brains are innately flawed. And it is only through acts of self-control that we rectify the errors.

Am I right?!

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No free posting? You a slave driver or summat?

What the heck is "free posting" anyway?

Let's see if I get this hypothesis: Our brains are flawed/don't work right. Only via self control that we can 'fix' the errors of our flawed brains. So, I assume we're not using our 'flawed brains' to exert this self control? Then what are we using? The Force? Power of God?

I guess I don't get this.

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What the heck is "free posting" anyway?

No idea but am guessing it's freedom of speech/typing.

p.s. Apologies, Chris for my off-topic post. I honestly can't help it. It all began when........ *rambles on and on and on*

Good luck with your research. :)

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Okay. From what I gathered, the Brain realizes the errors made. Conscious Direction still does require the Brain. Hence, it tries to reprogramme itself through Self-Control.

As Humans, we practise self-control almost every day.

Ergo, our Brains are innately flawed. And it is only through acts of self-control that we rectify the errors.

Am I right?!

Surely that only works if you regard the brains initial thought patterns as the preferred (therefore flawed) method of working, but the brain allows for thoughts to continue to the point of reaching some form of reasoning (or it does in most people)....the brain therefore rectifies itself if you allow it too, the only time you over-ride that function is when adrenalin kicks in, as adrenalin in most people acts like a fog, it clouds your thoughts, surely?

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Posted (edited)

(...) Time & Visual reality are grand illusions. (...)

This is just a hypothesis and should be marked as such. An illusion is a wrong interpretation of the reality so

the (absolute) reality must be known first to be able to judge about an illusion, so a misinterpretation, in relation

to the reality. As we do not have a model independent point of view to evaluate the absolute reality, we are not

in a position to label our reality as just an illusion of the absolute reality. Our reality about time and visual cognition

do follow models those are comprehensible by the laws of math and physics so it is highly likely that these laws

are also a part of the absolute reality in a 1 to 1 relation and it is highly unlikely that these laws are just a pattern

inside an illusion. Recapitulatory, the claim that our reality is just an illusion is futile and so cannot be used as a

basis, or just as a part, for a serious discussion outside NewAge drivel standards.

Edited by toast

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Okay. From what I gathered, the Brain realizes the errors made. Conscious Direction still does require the Brain. Hence, it tries to reprogramme itself through Self-Control.

As Humans, we practise self-control almost every day.

Ergo, our Brains are innately flawed. And it is only through acts of self-control that we rectify the errors.

Am I right?!

Apologies for the confusion with the words Free Posting. Free Posting insinuates Spamming / Off Topic Discussion.

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Posted (edited)

Let's see if I get this hypothesis: Our brains are flawed/don't work right. Only via self control that we can 'fix' the errors of our flawed brains. So, I assume we're not using our 'flawed brains' to exert this self control? Then what are we using? The Force? Power of God?

I guess I don't get this.

THAT is my question. What are we using?

Edited by Chris Raj

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Posted (edited)

Surely that only works if you regard the brains initial thought patterns as the preferred (therefore flawed) method of working, but the brain allows for thoughts to continue to the point of reaching some form of reasoning (or it does in most people)....the brain therefore rectifies itself if you allow it too, the only time you over-ride that function is when adrenalin kicks in, as adrenalin in most people acts like a fog, it clouds your thoughts, surely?

I understand. However, the Adrenal Glands are only activated in the event of danger / when excited. Adrenaline does lead to Self-Control, in some situations.

Adrenaline does cloud our thoughts in dodgy situations. However, it is simply the Brain going into Hyperdrive. Ofcourse, it is not right to say that the Brain is clueless to it's actions just because it's high off of Adrenaline, just because it is clouded. Correct?!

Unless, the Brain could sense events even before they happened.

Lo.. Premonition (in theory) which could actually still retain the precise calculations of the Brain without having to rectify them.

Edited by Chris Raj
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Posted (edited)

This is just a hypothesis and should be marked as such. An illusion is a wrong interpretation of the reality so

the (absolute) reality must be known first to be able to judge about an illusion, so a misinterpretation, in relation

to the reality. As we do not have a model independent point of view to evaluate the absolute reality, we are not

in a position to label our reality as just an illusion of the absolute reality. Our reality about time and visual cognition

do follow models those are comprehensible by the laws of math and physics so it is highly likely that these laws

are also a part of the absolute reality in a 1 to 1 relation and it is highly unlikely that these laws are just a pattern

inside an illusion. Recapitulatory, the claim that our reality is just an illusion is futile and so cannot be used as a

basis, or just as a part, for a serious discussion outside NewAge drivel standards.

I see your point. However, laws of Physics & the known universe were all put to light by our thinkers using the 5 Human senses.

1. If Tellurians by birth were sense-devoid (I.E., 5 Senses), what is our absolute reality then?

2. Through our Eyes, we see this "Reality". If the world was born Blind, then what is our reality? Is it just darkness?

It is by these questions, that i believe what we see is a veil in front of something that we have not found yet. This however, is then dragged into Spirituality.

Edited by Chris Raj
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1. If our Brain controls us & we are Slaves to it, can Suicide or Organic Death in any form be justified as means of breaking the shackles of Slavery? Is that ultimate freedom for mankind?

Since time immemorial, we're told that Life is better than Death. What if it's the other way around?

Classic - notice how your personality has created a reasonable means of justifying ending life? This is the enslavement of the mind by our Ego - we are not enslaved by our minds, our minds are enslaved by our desires and our desires create our personality.

If you are enslaved to your personality you are literally the walking dead because you do not know what you are doing, you are just following your senses and their attachments. To be alive you have to be conscious of what is motivating you and whether there is fear, anger, hate, envy etc making your choices for you. Would you act differently if there was no anger? We always externalise these things aka: "he made me angry" when the truth is "I am angry, why am I angry?", "what inside me wants to feel this anger?" and "why did I get so angry that I punched that fella and ended up spending the night in jail?" - the answer is anger made us a slave to it's desire to act out and used our pride to make us righteous in having that anger, not the other person, but our anger. Even if we choose to believe however, that it was the other person who made us angry, the problem still remains our anger. Why? Because we acted in accordance with how they made us feel - they owned us, we were enslaved by their words as surely as any hypnotist enslaves another's mind.

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Posted (edited)

I understand. However, the Adrenal Glands are only activated in the event of danger / when excited. Adrenaline does lead to Self-Control, in some situations.

Correct, adrenalin can lead to self-control. It used to be thought that adrenalin junkies had almost mild psychopathic tendencies, i.e an inability to think through the consequences of their actions, that's generally accepted as being false though, it is more the case that they know exactly what the risks are, but unlike most others they choose not to dwell on them, therefore they can concentrate more on the task at hand, that has the knock on effect of their adrenalin levels not peaking to high, and their heart rate not peaking as high as most others when in these situations that others would find stressful. I'm not sure if there is a correlation but it seems reasonable to conclude that adrenalin and self control are connected in situations that the person is aware is about to happen, rather then the shock/fog of fear adrenalin rush that can debilitate most people.

Adrenaline does cloud our thoughts in dodgy situations. However, it is simply the Brain going into Hyperdrive. Ofcourse, it is not right to say that the Brain is clueless to it's actions just because it's high off of Adrenaline, just because it is clouded. Correct?!

I would agree with that.

Unless, the Brain could sense events even before they happened.

Never thought about it like that tbh, but it would work under the scenario I posted above...what would trigger it to sense events is anyone's guess though - and I guess that's really what you're trying to get ideas about in your original question?

Lo.. Premonition (in theory) which could actually still retain the precise calculations of the Brain without having to rectify them.

That would make sense (in theory).

Edited by The Sky Scanner
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^^^ I agree 100% SS

I have trained and fought in Boxing/MMA for over half my life and can say with certainty that one learns to control adrenalin when it comes to a known situation.Even the most skilled,well trained badass will have their adrenalin spike before a fight,if they say otherwise that is a lie.As you mentioned it is knowing and accepting the consequences beforehand and training for any situations that may arise that helps to maintain control.The mind has to be just as conditioned as the body and vice versa

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Posted (edited)

^^^ I agree 100% SS

I have trained and fought in Boxing/MMA for over half my life and can say with certainty that one learns to control adrenalin when it comes to a known situation.Even the most skilled,well trained badass will have their adrenalin spike before a fight,if they say otherwise that is a lie.As you mentioned it is knowing and accepting the consequences beforehand and training for any situations that may arise that helps to maintain control.The mind has to be just as conditioned as the body and vice versa

In last years TT (2013) I got chatting to a rider from Kent, I think it was only his second year there, and we got talking and I asked him how he controlled the fear - first he said he didn't have fear (but felt nervous at the start line, different from fear though). He said if he felt genuine fear he couldn't do it, but he only felt no fear because he had played every scenario through in his head for many months before the racing started, even down to being one of the ones that didn't make it. Because he had played all those scenarios through his head he had 'dealt with them' (his words), then he could put them to the back of his mind and get on with the job at hand.

I assumed it's something you have to learn, but i'm not sure having the ability to prioritise danger to the extent you and him do is something that is taught alone, it must be partly the way the brain works...would you agree? Or did you teach yourself this from the start of your fighting career?

Edited by The Sky Scanner
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Posted (edited)

Speaking for myself i completly agree.

The ability to deal with certain dangers come down to the actual person in my opinion,some things can be taught and when practiced over and over become natural.

I have seen some fighters who excelled in sparring,but after signing their medical waivers and the fight begins everything suddenly becomes very real they panic and lose control.

So yes i tend to agree with what you are saying,one can teach themselves to deal with such things but also i think some of it comes down to how some are wired.

Edited by CrimsonKing
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1. If Tellurians by birth were sense-devoid (I.E., 5 Senses), what is our absolute reality then?

As we do not have a model independent point of view to evaluate the absolute reality there is no need to speculate about

an absolute reality in case of missing or additional senses of beings.

2. Through our Eyes, we see this "Reality". If the world was born Blind, then what is our reality? Is it just darkness?

In that case there are still 5 senses (incl. equilibrium sense) left to get impressions of the world around. And your question

is illogical because a being that has never seen light will not have a word for the the opposite, means the word darkness.

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.

The ability to deal with certain dangers come down to the actual person...

That's the real issue IMO. You can be big/strong/tough and then cave (and I mean badly) when a real life and death situation comes about. Even an MMA fighter is not really in danger of losing his life. I'd say a combat seasoned soldier is probably the only person who really comprehends this type of thing. Personally, I had a minor taste of it just once. I did manage to shoot back but I can't say as I even aimed (and I was crouched behind a tree stump/rock).

I guess being able to control one's thought processes and avoid being somehow "enslaved" probably boils down to something similar.

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Posted (edited)

I agree lilly,i have seen some real "tough" guys completly crumble under immense pressure.

The biggest risk in boxing or MMA is not certain death,it is the fact one "off" night things can and have gone horribly wrong to the point of injury that one would wish they were dead.

I also agree a combat veteran is the best person to explain such things,my little bro is a former

marine and currently a pro fighter that i train.The above comment were his exact words

Edited by CrimsonKing
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Yikes...MMA sounds terrifying!

I'm glad I have dogs and fire power vs brawn.

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Yikes...MMA sounds terrifying!

I'm glad I have dogs and fire power vs brawn.

I detect a bit of sarcasm :P

Never the less this topic wasn't about combat with guns or hand to hand we just were discussing a side note about adrenalin and how some react.

Lets not go all US politics forum section on here :gun:

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choice is what I believe we call the process of rationalizing our reactions to the conditions of life... \which lie outside our conscious control.

we react to things and then describe how we made a choice, when in fact, in the moment, there is only action and then after that, thought about why the action took place...

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