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RoofGardener

The Return of the Caliphate ?

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I'm not sure what to make of this. Apparently, ISIS have declared that the territory under their control is now a new, sovereign nation, configured as an Islamic Caliphacy.

They have named a new Caliphate, who I gather is a sort of Islamic King ? He is Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, though he is to be known as "Caliph Ibrahim"

I was under the impression that a Caliph was the ruler of "all muslims" ... not sure what Saudi is going to make of THAT... to say nothing of Pakistan, Indonesia etc.

There is a BBC article on this story ... http://www.bbc.co.uk...e-east-28082962

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They have named a new Caliphate, who I gather is a sort of Islamic King ? He is Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, though he is to be known as "Caliph Ibrahim"

They should call him Big Dadi.

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Well, all terrorists always presume that they're speaking for the Masses, don't they, they always appoint themselves as the leaders of the Global Revolution or as representing the People, and it's just typical grandioseness. The Western media does seem to be doing all they can to give them credibility, and you might almost think that their grandiose declarations are now officially law from the way that the Media are reporting it.

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They should call him Big Dadi.

I would advise him to stay off the highways -- drones.
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The time of the Caliph has come, ohh yes it's the Caliph-Hour.

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The Admiral (Rhubarb) has the right word -- grandioseness. Calling oneself a Caliph is like Mussolini comparing himself to the Dukes of Florence or to the Roman Emperor.

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Hopefully this guys will be stopped as soon as possible. Their plan for new 'county' is nothing more then a plan to start next world war.

Picture of their desired territory, its both scary and funny at same time :

ISIS-MAP.jpg

Picture from mirror.co.uk but same can be found all over internet since yesterday i think. Map like this can be made only in sick mind.

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Hopefully this guys will be stopped as soon as possible. Their plan for new 'county' is nothing more then a plan to start next world war.

Picture of their desired territory, its both scary and funny at same time :

ISIS-MAP.jpg

Picture from mirror.co.uk but same can be found all over internet since yesterday i think. Map like this can be made only in sick mind.

If they strike at Jordan in earnest (I doubt it) they would be met at least partially by the IDF. If the IDF begins routing them on the battlefield - which WOULD happen - then we'd have Arab Muslims being "slaughtered" by Jews and all hell would break loose in the region. If there is anything that would unite these two factions, even temporarily, it would be hatred of Israel. It has the ingredients of a much wider war all right.

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Posted (edited)

Hopefully this guys will be stopped as soon as possible. Their plan for new 'county' is nothing more then a plan to start next world war.

Picture of their desired territory, its both scary and funny at same time :

ISIS-MAP.jpg

Picture from mirror.co.uk but same can be found all over internet since yesterday i think. Map like this can be made only in sick mind.

They definitely see themseves as a Saladin like conqueror but fail to realize their idea of Islam differs greatly than his and the world is a much different place than a dark ages Europe. Obama may be a pushover but I don't think Putin will take kindly to them occupying present day Russia and the IDf, as you said, isn't the Iraqi army.

Edited by Merc14
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So, who is the intended audience? Whom is the new caliphate meant to impress? Is there fertile enough ground around "the world" to be encouraged by this grandiosity? Or is it an unrealistic pipe dream of some marginal fanatics?

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Posted (edited)

So, who is the intended audience? Whom is the new caliphate meant to impress? Is there fertile enough ground around "the world" to be encouraged by this grandiosity? Or is it an unrealistic pipe dream of some marginal fanatics?

I vote for the last one.

Edited by Merc14
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So, who is the intended audience? Whom is the new caliphate meant to impress? Is there fertile enough ground around "the world" to be encouraged by this grandiosity? Or is it an unrealistic pipe dream of some marginal fanatics?

Thanks for showing me "grandiosity" without correcting me.
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If they strike at Jordan in earnest (I doubt it) they would be met at least partially by the IDF. If the IDF begins routing them on the battlefield - which WOULD happen - then we'd have Arab Muslims being "slaughtered" by Jews and all hell would break loose in the region. If there is anything that would unite these two factions, even temporarily, it would be hatred of Israel. It has the ingredients of a much wider war all right.

Yeah, i highly doubt it too because Jordan is one of US allies as i know it, that be reason #1. They just can't fight such battle. But if IDF would stand up for Jordan in such scenario then IDF would be doing just and good thing - stopping terrorists advance and preventing them to occupy even more land. I can't see why would any normal man or government turn on Israel, if things would play out in that way.

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So, who is the intended audience? Whom is the new caliphate meant to impress? Is there fertile enough ground around "the world" to be encouraged by this grandiosity? Or is it an unrealistic pipe dream of some marginal fanatics?

Even if they only draw 1% of the world's Muslim population to their cause, it would be enough to conquer that map. And they could probably do a little better than that 1%.

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They definitely see themseves as a Saladin like conqueror but fail to realize their idea of Islam differs greatly than his and the world is a much different place than a dark ages Europe. Obama may be a pushover but I don't think Putin will take kindly to them occupying present day Russia and the IDf, as you said, isn't the Iraqi army.

True and no one can tell what else could they think of in their crazy minds. Map like this is insulting to everyone in the area. They hide their true intentions behind the so called 'fight for oppressed'. They even call out for Jihad - and present their expansionism plans - those 2 ideas can't stay together :)

Even Jordan army should be able to fight them off, not to mention that the world won't calmly watch anyone ( especially not the terrorist leaders ) taking so much territory.

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Yeah, i highly doubt it too because Jordan is one of US allies as i know it, that be reason #1. They just can't fight such battle. But if IDF would stand up for Jordan in such scenario then IDF would be doing just and good thing - stopping terrorists advance and preventing them to occupy even more land. I can't see why would any normal man or government turn on Israel, if things would play out in that way.

The US (or I should say Obama) would do nothing to defend Jordan if attacked, but If Israel could ally with Jordan, that would send a PR shiver up the Caliphate’s spine that could thwart the movement. Will the Saudis permit it?

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Posted (edited)

Even if they only draw 1% of the world's Muslim population to their cause, it would be enough to conquer that map. And they could probably do a little better than that 1%.

Manpower can't secure anything. We have seen, tru all of history, that numbers are nothing compared to the side which use military tactics.

The US (or I should say Obama) would do nothing to defend Jordan if attacked, but If Israel could ally with Jordan, that would send a PR shiver up the Caliphate's spine that could thwart the movement. Will the Saudis permit it?

Its hard to believe it but its just my personal view. US would help Jordan i believe. As for Saudis, well, when did they do anything by themselves? I cant remember. If they would turn on Israel then Saudis would be marked as the ones who are against the peace in such case. Very complicated situation and i just hope that everyone knows who is enemy here.

Edited by Sir Smoke aLot

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Manpower can't secure anything. We have seen, tru all of history, that numbers are nothing compared to the side which use military tactics.

Manpower is still the key. Without it, you can’t secure anything. That is what history shows. All the technology, the drones, the airstrikes do nothing if you don’t follow it up with boots on the ground. Tactics is how you use the manpower *AND* the technology in conjunction with each other. That is why the US will lose if it tries to get involved with the current Commander-in-Chief.

Its hard to believe it but its just my personal view. US would help Jordan i believe. As for Saudis, well, when did they do anything by themselves? I cant remember. If they would turn on Israel then Saudis would be marked as the ones who are against the peace in such case. Very complicated situation and i just hope that everyone knows who is enemy here.

How’s that? By sending in drones, airstrikes, and advisors? That is the formula for failure. We’re going to get our butts handed to us with that mentality.

The Saudis will only bankroll this. Although, if the Wahhabis, should take control, they would take a more active role. If that were to happen, that would be equivalent to the other shoe dropping. How secure is the Saud family? Do you think that at that point, it would matter if Saudi Arabia was seen as *against* the peace?

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Posted (edited)

I'm not sure that Jordan would need help from the USA or Israel (other than perhaps satelite/drone intel gathering). I was under the impression that the Jordanian military (all branches) where loyal, well equipped, well trained, and high in morale (unlike their Iraqi counterparts).

According to the Wikipedea article, they have made a specific point over the last few years of developing their Special Forces in counter-insurgency operations, which would be ideal for resisting an "organisation" like ISIS.

Edited by RoofGardener

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The US (or I should say Obama) would do nothing to defend Jordan if attacked, but If Israel could ally with Jordan, that would send a PR shiver up the Caliphate's spine that could thwart the movement. Will the Saudis permit it?

The Saudis are no friends of ISIS and are calling up troops at the moment. Really, a loyal, well armed and trained military would make short work of these fanatics but it must be done by the locals. US intel and supplies only IMHO.

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I'm not sure that Jordan would need help from the USA or Israel (other than perhaps satelite/drone intel gathering). I was under the impression that the Jordanian military (all branches) where loyal, well equipped, well trained, and high in morale (unlike their Iraqi counterparts).

According to the Wikipedea article, they have made a specific point over the last few years of developing their Special Forces in counter-insurgency operations, which would be ideal for resisting an "organisation" like ISIS.

Yes, they have a very capable military. They would be a tough nut to crack but the best way to do that would be to take it down from the inside. King Abdullah walks a tightrope among the nobles. Are there any nobles that align with ISIS or Saudi Arabia? There are concerns about assassination attempts directed toward Abdullah.

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The Saudis are no friends of ISIS and are calling up troops at the moment. Really, a loyal, well armed and trained military would make short work of these fanatics but it must be done by the locals. US intel and supplies only IMHO.

Indeed,; but do the Saudis count as that? I've heard tales of how they didn't always approach Gulf War I with... 100% enthusiasm, shall we say. :unsure2:

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The Saudis are no friends of ISIS and are calling up troops at the moment. Really, a loyal, well armed and trained military would make short work of these fanatics but it must be done by the locals. US intel and supplies only IMHO.

The Sauds are bankrolling ISIS. Is the troop call up for show or will they be used to take Jordan? These *fanatics* are very disciplined, well trained, and well equipped. You just don’t start this movement with a few fanatics without a plan and no backing.

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Yeah, i highly doubt it too because Jordan is one of US allies as i know it, that be reason #1. They just can't fight such battle. But if IDF would stand up for Jordan in such scenario then IDF would be doing just and good thing - stopping terrorists advance and preventing them to occupy even more land. I can't see why would any normal man or government turn on Israel, if things would play out in that way.

Really? I can't imagine the majority NOT clamouring for war against Israel. Unless the media lie at every turn and consistently - including staging mass demonstrations - show hatred by all Muslims for Israel, I couldn't imagine any other course for a reaction. We'll see soon enough if Jordan gets attacked. I'm guessing that the build up of forces there and the promises of even more will stop them from considering it a soft target.

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