psyche101 Posted July 10, 2014 #101 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Ocean or not the metaphor is powerful. Spaceships are "ships," those who run them captains reporting to admirals, and groups of them are fleets and one sails them. The difference is distances and medium. Indeed, so powerful that people extend it to see space as an Ocean, which is somewhat ridiculous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncbdg Posted July 10, 2014 #102 Share Posted July 10, 2014 I've read recent articles by knowledgeable people who claim that some very early paintings by Leonardo DaVinci contain unexplained shapes that appear to be similar to the popular description of flying saucers. Over many years, there have been unexplained sightings by rational and sane people of lights in the sky, flying saucer shapes and disturbance to electrical supply and/or communications. The sightings etc. I refer to are the ones which have not been explained away. Along with hundreds of other people, many years ago I saw a light in the sky which followed the terrain at an even distance, and then simply disappeared. Never explained. In my view, it would take a very brave person to say, categorically, that there are no aliens or alien visits to earths atmosphere. But, in scientific terms, it must be admitted that there is no proof, for or against. I suppose we must continue wondering. Yes there are Alien life forms,i like this,how about this the Earth is 4 billion years old and if a alien race came by once every 1 billion years then we been visited 4 times.And could this be the way in and out from our earth. ScienceCasts: Hidden Magnetic Portals Around Earth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted July 10, 2014 #103 Share Posted July 10, 2014 So where are these portals? How do we access them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrLzs Posted July 10, 2014 #104 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Follow the chemtrails.. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncbdg Posted July 10, 2014 #105 Share Posted July 10, 2014 So where are these portals? How do we access them? Did you watch the video it tells you where they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncbdg Posted July 10, 2014 #106 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Follow the chemtrails.. Its like going to a new school in here,a lot of silly boys and girls think they run the place and we have to fall in to line,lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NocturnalWatcher Posted July 10, 2014 #107 Share Posted July 10, 2014 There were actually two sets of so called Phoenix lights. One was the flares dropped on the range. Those are the lights shown in most videos of the event. The other was the formation of planes that was said to be silent. They were not actually silent though. People in the Chandler area said they heard jet noise as it passed over. The local media wanted a UFO story and dd not air the comments from witnesses who had better insight as to what it was. That included a 12 year old kid with a telescope who said he could see the wings and strobes of the individual planes. He described the planes as having straight wings (not swept) which is a feature of the A-10s that were using the ANG training range. To counter your point there was an amateur astronomer in Phoenix, an adult, with a telescope who said it was one giant craft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NocturnalWatcher Posted July 10, 2014 #108 Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) With all.due respect psyche you're so entrenched in your beliefs that's there's no point in us even talking. You're one of the.everything is a lie skeptics. I can tell by the way u talk u think there's no possible way u could ever be wrong. I don't really want to bother with people like you again no offense but we see.things very.differently. You seem to think your privy to information I don't know or haven't seen but honestly everything u say I've heard before and it doesn't change my opinion. It's about who you choose to believe and which side of the.story.you think is.real. Some of us like myself I believe are just a little more open minded than people like you. But maybe your right and every ufo aliens story ever.told is a lie. I don't buy that but you can.believe whatever you want And honestly starting off the response with "rednecks having sex with aliens " shows your ignorance on.the whole subject. I wouldn't expect someone like you to ridicule in such a way. I'm wondering how much youve.actually looked into the cases after making such a statement. I don't see how anyone who has researched many cases could say something like that. That is a response you would generally get from ignorant uneducated non believer. I'm not pointing fingers at you but I've noticed some of the.skeptics on this site are a little too forceful in trying to impose their viewd on others and when.that.doesn't work indirectly ridiculing them or.calling them stupid. That needs to.stop. Edited July 10, 2014 by NocturnalWatcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NocturnalWatcher Posted July 10, 2014 #109 Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) Oh one more thing. When you brought up the south Africa sighting you quickly came to the conclusion that it was men in black suits fixing an electrical problem. That's not debunking that's just inventing a version of events.that supports your outlook. You can literally do that with anything. Because the children clearly say.there was a craft in the sky.that came.down and landed. They all give.similar descriptions and mention the large black eyes etc. It's all about what.you believe. Edited July 10, 2014 by NocturnalWatcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetpumper Posted July 10, 2014 #110 Share Posted July 10, 2014 LOL. Welcome to the ET section, Watcher. I see this being closed as your last post will bring a wave of responses being exactly what you'd expect. And they'll have nothing to do with the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scowl Posted July 10, 2014 #111 Share Posted July 10, 2014 With all.due respect psyche you're so entrenched in your beliefs that's there's no point in us even talking. Unless you want to talk to him about evidence. He and most of us are most certainly entrenched in the belief of scientific methods to solve mysteries and understand the universe. When people show up here trying to pass science fiction as fact, they are often shocked when such things as evidence and proof are requested when they really just wanted to fantasize. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinewave Posted July 10, 2014 #112 Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) To counter your point there was an amateur astronomer in Phoenix, an adult, with a telescope who said it was one giant craft. But the facts remain that there is an ANG training range just west of Phoenix where A-10 pilots were practicing that night. A-10s are used for close ground support so flares and chaff are sometimes deployed to ward off SAMs. The flares setup a scattered heat signature that attracts heat-seeking ordinance away from the aircraft. Pilots are trained to drop flares and take evasive action. Those maneuvers are an essential part of the training. In this case, flares were dropped from well above the mountain tops where they could be seen from some locations around Phoenix. Flying in formation is customary when squadrons are ferrying from one place to another. In this case the formation was a V. Military pilots are very skilled at locking on to their wing man making it appear as though the formation is physically connected. There are several military pilots on his forum who can attest to that. In any event, A-10s were present when the sightings were reported making it a far more plausible explanation. Edited July 10, 2014 by sinewave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuriousRey Posted July 10, 2014 #113 Share Posted July 10, 2014 With all.due respect psyche you're so entrenched in your beliefs that's there's no point in us even talking. You're one of the.everything is a lie skeptics. I can tell by the way u talk u think there's no possible way u could ever be wrong. I don't really want to bother with people like you again no offense but we see.things very.differently. You seem to think your privy to information I don't know or haven't seen but honestly everything u say I've heard before and it doesn't change my opinion. It's about who you choose to believe and which side of the.story.you think is.real. Some of us like myself I believe are just a little more open minded than people like you. But maybe your right and every ufo aliens story ever.told is a lie. I don't buy that but you can.believe whatever you want And honestly starting off the response with "rednecks having sex with aliens " shows your ignorance on.the whole subject. I wouldn't expect someone like you to ridicule in such a way. I'm wondering how much youve.actually looked into the cases after making such a statement. I don't see how anyone who has researched many cases could say something like that. That is a response you would generally get from ignorant uneducated non believer. I'm not pointing fingers at you but I've noticed some of the.skeptics on this site are a little too forceful in trying to impose their viewd on others and when.that.doesn't work indirectly ridiculing them or.calling them stupid. That needs to.stop. I have a bit of an issue with some of what you say here, I don't think that psyche acts like he is privy to some sort of information that others may not have, he just looks at the situations and finds the logical explanation for them rather than jumping to wild conclusions. While some of the discussions on the threads can get a bit tense I don't see anyone trying to impose their views, all I see are facts and opinions being thrown back and forth in the form of a discussion, however when certain factual information is completely ignored for the sake of blind belief it can be a bit frustrating. I'm sure if some tangible evidence or truly interesting opinions that were presented in a way that didn't sound far-fetched a lot of us big bad skeptics would be all ears, the problem is that the claims have no physical evidence and are mostly eyewitness accounts. The big difference I notice between the believers and skeptics in these threads is that I've seen quite a few skeptics thrown on an ignore list for engaging in discussion yet the skeptics continue to listen to everyone regardless of how outlandish their claims might be, that is the point of a discussion forum. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinewave Posted July 10, 2014 #114 Share Posted July 10, 2014 I have a bit of an issue with some of what you say here, I don't think that psyche acts like he is privy to some sort of information that others may not have, he just looks at the situations and finds the logical explanation for them rather than jumping to wild conclusions. While some of the discussions on the threads can get a bit tense I don't see anyone trying to impose their views, all I see are facts and opinions being thrown back and forth in the form of a discussion, however when certain factual information is completely ignored for the sake of blind belief it can be a bit frustrating. I'm sure if some tangible evidence or truly interesting opinions that were presented in a way that didn't sound far-fetched a lot of us big bad skeptics would be all ears, the problem is that the claims have no physical evidence and are mostly eyewitness accounts. The big difference I notice between the believers and skeptics in these threads is that I've seen quite a few skeptics thrown on an ignore list for engaging in discussion yet the skeptics continue to listen to everyone regardless of how outlandish their claims might be, that is the point of a discussion forum. Exactly right CR. It is necessary, albeit less entertaining to exhaust the mundane before venturing into the fantastic. If there is no clear reason why a mundane explanation cannot be applied then we look at where the evidence points. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted July 10, 2014 #115 Share Posted July 10, 2014 People who say there is no evidence I guess that depends on your definition of evidence.Well since it's about aliens, I imagine evidence of an alien organism which would be genetic material.There has been physical evidence in the form of implants which have been extracted from victims and analyzed in the lab. These implants often contain unnatural formation of elements which would indicate they wereproduced in a laboratory and are not naturally occurring. <snip> Aliens are real. Woo-woo evidence consists of a bunch of stories and "I don't know.. Aliens did it". It's the same kind of crap that holds up creationism. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted July 10, 2014 #116 Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) Yes there are Alien life forms,i like this,how about this the Earth is 4 billion years old and if a alien race came by once every 1 billion years then we been visited 4 times. And could this be the way in and out from our earth. ScienceCasts: Hidden Magnetic Portals Around Earth So aliens live on the sun?These magnetic "portals" are where the magnetic field of the sun connects to the magnetic field of earth. Perhaps you should've watched the video yourself? Edited July 10, 2014 by Rlyeh 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perceptivum Posted July 10, 2014 #117 Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) Thing is one can never completely eliminate the mundane. There are always unknown third options. To be convincingly extraordinary is not achieved by eliminating all other options. Holmes had that wrong. The extraordinary requires its own evidence, and the more extraordinary it is the more evidence is needed. I can get on board with what you wrote here, surprisingly. Edited July 10, 2014 by Perceptivum 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klambo Posted July 10, 2014 #118 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Because the children clearly say.there was a craft in the sky.that came.down and landed. They all give.similar descriptions and mention the large black eyes etc. It's all about what.you believe. The Ariel School sighting in Ruwa Zimbabwe is certainly an intriguing case. I would dispute that all the children mention the large black eyes.............they did not........in fact in the earliest video recorded interview 3 days after the event the female teacher asks a group of about 3 boys to describe the being they saw, they each describe seeing a small black man. The teacher asks could they see his face, the boys reply no because he was like a shadow. The teacher asks, what the "creature" was wearing............the girl replies he wore something tight & shiny black..........have you seen a diver asks the teacher.......Yes a diver! the girl replies. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww6uzFpKBQo One can only really speculate as to what the children actually saw.........so here goes my speculative hypothesis. The children really did see an aircraft of some sort. that was perhaps some type of prototype amphibious craft that was being tested perhaps by the millitary, and the "aliens" were just people in frogman's diving suit that the children saw from a distance. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted July 10, 2014 #119 Share Posted July 10, 2014 You seem to think your privy to information I don't know or haven't seen No, he's just in possession of a few things the true believers don't have, like a teaspoon and an open mind. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted July 10, 2014 #120 Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) With all.due respect psyche you're so entrenched in your beliefs that's there's no point in us even talking. You're one of the.everything is a lie skeptics. I can tell by the way u talk u think there's no possible way u could ever be wrong. I don't really want to bother with people like you again no offense but we see.things very.differently. I feel that is not the case at all, I think you are so entrenched in wanting to believe that someone like me who can back their argument threatens your view to an extent that you would rather I just go away so you can focus on finding like minded people to validate your views To say I call everyone a Liar is a blatant lie in itself. I try to find the real reason behind sightings and find abductions one of the silliest aspects of UFOlogy. perhaps closely following MIB. I have offered sound explanations backed with links and detailed descriptions of every case I have opposed in debate, and have had to concede on some occasions, when a decent researcher like Quillius actually raises the bar and brings a valid question to the table brilliant discussion is not only had, but high profile people like Ian Ridpath and Dr David Morrison get contacted for input, and the bar just keeps raising higher all the time. Quite frankly, I just see your defeatist response as a proverbial white flag. If there was something substantial to back your claims and promoted belief, this would be a fascinating conversation, but like several others, you thought you had something compelling, but when it was shown not to be compelling at all, you take offence and back out of the conversation. You may feel you did so gracefully, but there is no grace in a pusillanimous retreat. You seem to think your privy to information I don't know or haven't seen but honestly everything u say I've heard before and it doesn't change my opinion. It's about who you choose to believe and which side of the.story.you think is.real. Some of us like myself I believe are just a little more open minded than people like you. But maybe your right and every ufo aliens story ever.told is a lie. I don't buy that but you can.believe whatever you want I bet that very much is the case - that I know more than most posters here. I have been looking at this phenomena for a good 35 years or more, and have seen most of these cases, followed than, and found the sound explanation that removes the extraordinary aspects. I am disgusted and outraged at the lies and damage UFOlogy does to science and historical record. I do not "believe" that is the difference between you and I, nobody is above scrutiny here, that is why I express my views in a discussion forum, and thankfully people at this particular forum are generous and very intelligent, and people like Badeskov, Peri, DP, S2F, Scowl, Lost Shaman, all teach me a great deal about things I do not know about. I do not want to "believe" I want to know. I am not interested in changing your mind, that is a personal journey in case you had not realised, deal with it yourself, I will correct erroneous data posted if I have correcting information. If you continually deny the verified information that demystifies the superstitions you find interesting to ponder and do not want the "mysterious" aspect damaged, that is your own delusion to deal with, and that is not being open minded at all, that is being closed minded. You want aliens and dammit, your going to have them - correct? Any person who might dent that fantasy is closed minded and wants to change you, get over yourself, I do not care if I never speak to you again, I care about the data, nothing more. And honestly starting off the response with "rednecks having sex with aliens " shows your ignorance on.the whole subject. I wouldn't expect someone like you to ridicule in such a way. I'm wondering how much youve.actually looked into the cases after making such a statement. I don't see how anyone who has researched many cases could say something like that. That is a response you would generally get from ignorant uneducated non believer. Are you trying to tell me cases like that do not exist? Go right ahead, pick a case, the one most people hang their hat on the the Cortile/Napolitano case right? A case of sexual misconduct, and abduction by a man with sexual problems? I suggest you have a look at this show, My Mum Speaks to Aliens. Mary Rodwell is an Australian "abductee" investigator, and she takes her skeptical son around the country looking at cases, she even debates a college professor, which shows she has more guts than almost all of the FTB's here! As they run from debate 99% of the time but we know why that is, the people she travels to speak to have obvious problems. One bloke describes his wet dream as an abduction experience - back to rednecks being abducted for sex again - it's unnerving to watch when you see these people in their element, not in an interview or UFO website, when they are at home, speaking out they do not seem half as convincing as the write up that UFOlogy promotes on their behalf. As far as I can tell, you are restricted to less than even half of this picture by being offended at an opposing viewpoint. I'm not pointing fingers at you but I've noticed some of the.skeptics on this site are a little too forceful in trying to impose their viewd on others and when.that.doesn't work indirectly ridiculing them or.calling them stupid. That needs to.stop. Damn straight, and I will ridicule where warranted too - do you feel the sillier claims deserve less? Everything else in the world is subject to ridicule - religion, politics, sex, you name it, why should UFOlogy be exempt? The only reason I can this is because it hits a little too close to home and people do not want to realise that. Ridicule can be an important tool, and it puts things into perspective. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbJ3kH2G0ns Edited July 10, 2014 by psyche101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted July 10, 2014 #121 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Oh one more thing. When you brought up the south Africa sighting you quickly came to the conclusion that it was men in black suits fixing an electrical problem. That's not debunking that's just inventing a version of events.that supports your outlook. You can literally do that with anything. Not quickly at all, you will see I started formulating that hypothesis here at least a year ago or more if you use the search engine. More work to do on it, but no that is not debunking, you just read the overview and did not bother to ask about if there is more to it. Electrical Faults were rife due to high winds and extraordinarily dry conditions at the time, and such faults like "Ball lighting traveling down a power line" were reported in days before and after that every event. The suits long black hair indicate PPE worn to protect electrical workers. But you are so open minded you decided to judge - which you do not do - before asking hey. Or bother to search for the thread on it right here at UM. No you cannot do that with literally anything, you have to try and match up the events. Because the children clearly say.there was a craft in the sky.that came.down and landed. They all give.similar descriptions and mention the large black eyes etc. It's all about what.you believe. No they did not, the drawings do differ, and some look very much like Jupiter 2 from lost in space, which was popular and airing there at the time. All similar huh?? Does not look like that to me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted July 11, 2014 #122 Share Posted July 11, 2014 To counter your point there was an amateur astronomer in Phoenix, an adult, with a telescope who said it was one giant craft. Who? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klambo Posted July 11, 2014 #123 Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) No they did not, the drawings do differ, and some look very much like Jupiter 2 from lost in space, which was popular and airing there at the time. Hi psyche, you have an interesting hypothesis there. I am not sure if was airing in Zimbabwe at the time, but I did note that "The X files" first aired on tv in 1993, just a year before the Ariel school sighting in 1994. In my previous post, I made reference to a female teacher interviewing the children, but in fact she was Cynthia Hind author & UFO researcher. As you rightly point out, the chlidren's depictions do seem to differ, especially when pressed on the specfic details of the "creature" (Cynthia Hind's word not the children's wording........they call him the black man). I love the girl who tells John Mack " At first I thought it was an alien.........then I thought it was the gardener." Edited July 11, 2014 by klambo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NocturnalWatcher Posted July 11, 2014 #124 Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) Who? I don't know I don't have sources saved, though I may have posted it in a phoenix lights thread here I can't remember. But I also realize that there was amateur astronomers who said the opposite that it was separate aircraft. I believe it may have been both. Yes the military claimed it was A_10s dropping flares after originally saying they.don't know. They changed their story, and the military are known liars so it might be a lie. Witnesses claimed.it blocked out the stars indicating 1 object. This Tim and Bobby ley seen the craft 100 ft above their house, no telescope is needed, and.they.said it moved so slow it appeared to be.hovering. Again this is only 100 ft above the ground. Planes do not travel that.slow or low, they.are not that big. It was obviously not flares. The.cluster of lights were seen all over the place. Beyond that the video that is famous for this case may be flares you can't tell. But these lights appeared.well after sighting reports had come in and imo it's possible the military scrambled jets and flares to try and cover up.the legitimacy of the event. To.try and confuse people or make them.believe it.was a military exercise. That could explain the contradicting reports Edited July 11, 2014 by NocturnalWatcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NocturnalWatcher Posted July 11, 2014 #125 Share Posted July 11, 2014 "No they did not, the drawings do differ, and some look very much like Jupiter 2 from lost in space, which was popular and airing there at the time. All similar huh??" Does not look like that to me. Looks pretty similar to me. 5 of the pictures include an alien looking spacecraft. The one is red maybe glowing because it was flying the rest are of the craft landed. They look like your typical ufo. Do you think all these children are disinformation agents or do you think they are drawing what.they.saw? Look at.the one picture if the alien, looks like a gray. The other one with hair, who knows. None of the pictures look normal though. Of course this case is open to interpretation but where u don't see similarities I do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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