Jor-el Posted July 9, 2014 #26 Share Posted July 9, 2014 There are a great many million who are not going to experience the Great Tribulation - they have all already passed over. If there is trouble in the world but we are not where the trouble is, then we escape being a part of that trouble - being spared or escaping the Great Tribulation would not require us to be anything or anywhere else than we are. Considering death of the human body as an end of existence would negate the possibility of escape, but we know it is not the end. The idea of the bodily rapture is recent - it has not been viewed this way throughout history within the churches. Escape can happen in a great many different ways is what I am saying. Is Jesus dead? Yet he died on the cross. Did any of his disciples escape dying on this earth? Yet they are seated with him in Heaven. Therein lies the problem doesn't it? What the author meant is open to interpretation. Why do we have to have an alternative to an unresolved mystery? The point is that the current theory is being bandied about as fact, and it is not. That does not mean that alternate theories have to be presented, it only means that the correct interpretation remains a mystery. Regardless, my alternative is that those souls who are not to suffer the tribulation will not be on earth when the tribulation begins. They will be in heaven, like so many before them and like the 100,000 martyrs who are given "new robes" and told to wait until their number is complete in Revelation before the tribulation begins. Alternatively, they will be imune to the effects of the tribulation going on around them - that is also possible. How did they know? Did no one explain it to them? If it was explained to them why did they not explain it to others? The same way the 100,000 martyrs in the new white robes got there and every one already there ...... Jesus never spoke of death - even in an "oblique" way either. Yet he did die ..... and he knew he was going to, even on the cross he advised the thief who had repented that he would be with him "this day" in heaven, yet physically on that day of his death occurred on the cross. In revelation also, it does speak to death the 100,000 martyrs in the white robes, awaiting the fulness of their number and the church joining them. This matter of "new robes" seems to be quite repetative - in fact the entire church is going to be provided with white robes. There is no such thing as a mystery that cannot be resolved, the bible is not a book of mysteries. As such ignoring the fact that your approach raises a glaring contradiction in the bible should then give you pause to consider that you may not have the correct approach. Also, if one does not give an alternative that is cohorent to the text, one cannot simply dismiss the only explanation around that does make sense... So if the rapture is wrong, please by all means give us the church a suitable alternative... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libstaK Posted July 9, 2014 Author #27 Share Posted July 9, 2014 There is no such thing as a mystery that cannot be resolved, the bible is not a book of mysteries. As such ignoring the fact that your approach raises a glaring contradiction in the bible should then give you pause to consider that you may not have the correct approach. Also, if one does not give an alternative that is cohorent to the text, one cannot simply dismiss the only explanation around that does make sense... So if the rapture is wrong, please by all means give us the church a suitable alternative... I already provided alternatives, you don't like them. One of us is right, one of us is wrong - in the end God will do as he wills and as he always intended, I don't claim to know enough about God to answer all of his mysteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jor-el Posted July 9, 2014 #28 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I already provided alternatives, you don't like them. One of us is right, one of us is wrong - in the end God will do as he wills and as he always intended, I don't claim to know enough about God to answer all of his mysteries. libstak, you did indeed provide an alternative, all Christians need to be killed off to avoid the great tribulation.... The problem with that consideration is simple... it ain't biblical.... you can invent the most varied reasons that you are certainly free to imagine.... abduction by aliens, mass murder of all Christians, and so on... the simple thing is if it isn't based on scripture, all you are giving me is a neat little theme for a science fiction novel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libstaK Posted July 9, 2014 Author #29 Share Posted July 9, 2014 libstak, you did indeed provide an alternative, all Christians need to be killed off to avoid the great tribulation.... The problem with that consideration is simple... it ain't biblical.... you can invent the most varied reasons that you are certainly free to imagine.... abduction by aliens, mass murder of all Christians, and so on... the simple thing is if it isn't based on scripture, all you are giving me is a neat little theme for a science fiction novel. No I didn't see they need to be "killed off" I was referring to the fact that once they are all passed over into heaven then the tribulation will begin. That doesn't mean they need to be "killed off" only the 100,000 martyrs fall into that category, the remainder will reach there in God's time not at the hands of man, just as every man who lives passes over at their appointed time now. The "science fiction" novels I see bandied about the world today are all based on the theories of the Rapture funnily enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jor-el Posted July 9, 2014 #30 Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) No I didn't see they need to be "killed off" I was referring to the fact that once they are all passed over into heaven then the tribulation will begin. That doesn't mean they need to be "killed off" only the 100,000 martyrs fall into that category, the remainder will reach there in God's time not at the hands of man, just as every man who lives passes over at their appointed time now. The "science fiction" novels I see bandied about the world today are all based on the theories of the Rapture funnily enough. A number of points need to be addressed in your post. So what you are saying is that every single Christian on earth must die 1st before the tribulation can begin... you do not consider that an outrageous statement especially since it is not backed by scripture anywhere, whereas the opposite is clearly evident.... 1 Thessalonians 4:17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. It seems that many of us won't be dead when he comes again for us (the church) alone, explain that away however you want, but it doesn't erase the words. So are we all dead or are we not all dead when the Great Tribulation starts? If so what are Christians still doing here when apparently Jesus returns? As you know that only happens at the end of the Great Tribulation. 2nd, point, there is no mention ANYWHERE of the 100.000 martyrs you mention. Since apparently you are not using the bible as the basis for your position, I can give you no credit when you claim that the rapture is not biblical. Edited July 9, 2014 by Jor-el Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted July 9, 2014 #31 Share Posted July 9, 2014 The only Rapture that I care about. LOL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karmakazi Posted July 9, 2014 #32 Share Posted July 9, 2014 The only Rapture that I care about. LOL I wish there was a "super like" button Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted July 10, 2014 #33 Share Posted July 10, 2014 My view on all this religious fear running rampant around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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