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Arkitecht

China Thinks it can Defeat America

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So as im grazing on my raisin bran,i read the following and almost choked on my two scoops of raisin ritual.But before i give you the impression were sitting ducks,China does have at least one foot in reality...

http://m.theweek.com/article/index/264032/china-thinks-it-can-defeat-america-in-battle

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Just a lil snippet from the article linked above...

For years, Chinese military planning assumed that any attack by the People's Liberation Army on Taiwan or a disputed island would have to begin with a Pearl Harbor-style preemptive missile strike by China against U.S. forces in Japan and Guam. The PLA was so afraid of overwhelming American intervention that it genuinely believed it could not win unless the Americans were removed from the battlefield before the main campaign even began.

A preemptive strike was, needless to say, a highly risky proposition. If it worked, the PLA just might secure enough space and time to defeat defending troops, seize territory, and position itself for a favorable post-war settlement.

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More of that peculiar combination of smugness about Overwhelming Military Might and paranoia that any country in the Axis of Evil you care to name might suddenly decide, out of sheer mad and evilness, to attack America, that's so characteristic of much of the mainstream American media there. Every country in the world has these strategic plans for whatever eventuality might arise, but naturally the Media, as excitebale as they always are, automatically sees it as proof that [in this case] China is plotting to attack America at the first opportunity it can get.

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Of course they do. So did the Soviets.

The problem with China, as the article points out, is that its economy is unsustainable and it will eventually crash under its own weight - the strains are already beginning to show. They may end up consolidating some territory and power in their region, but I can't foresee anything more than another Cold War type situation when it comes to the US.

Besides, given what happened to the Chinese economy when the crash hit the US in 2008, they seem much more dependent upon good relations with us than we are with them. If we're not paying back debt and buying $20 DVD players, things go very bad for them very quickly.

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Why why why do countries think they can do a sneak attack on us and think they can get away with it? Man.. our navy and air force is so incredibly powerful we would bring them to their knees relatively quickly. I hope we never have to do that though.

When the second most powerful country on earth begins to think it can overtake the most powerful country on earth, inevitably, war ensues. It has happened over the course of human existence.

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Why why why do countries think they can do a sneak attack on us and think they can get away with it? Man.. our navy and air force is so incredibly powerful we would bring them to their knees relatively quickly. I hope we never have to do that though.

When the second most powerful country on earth begins to think it can overtake the most powerful country on earth, inevitably, war ensues. It has happened over the course of human existence.

you haven't being paying attention over the past few months? your air force is shrinking, its not about how big our military is, its about how to deal with economic implications

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Well with our present "Commander" in Chief, Any military threat from anyone scares the **** out of me.

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meh Im not worried.

We have a history of when needed bulking up the military pretty fast and then beating the crap out of whoever

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meh Im not worried.

We have a history of when needed bulking up the military pretty fast and then beating the crap out of whoever

lol, we had hard time dealing with insergents, that are half in stone age, i do not doubt china's army is a lot more capable.

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Posted (edited)

lol, we had hard time dealing with insergents, that are half in stone age, i do not doubt china's army is a lot more capable.

lol we defeated Saddam's army in a matter of hours the first Gulf War. This time was a bit different because Iraq was just a shell of its former self and we just kicked it in on itself. True, we had to fight insurgents but only because we stayed behind.

I doubt we would even try to attempt to land one marine on China's mainland. Just bomb them until they beg for relief.

Edited by Thelaw1

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Posted (edited)

lol we defeated Saddam's army in a matter of hours the first Gulf War. This time was a bit different because Iraq was just a shell of its former self and we just kicked it in on itself. True, we had to fight insurgents but only because we stayed behind.

I doubt we would even try to attempt to land one marine on China's mainland. Just bomb them until they beg for relief.

we bombed iraqi retreating convoy of vehicles, they never attempted to shoot back, their army did not even fight for the most part, they ran away leaving everything. you can not use that as a argument to us strenght. we never met any resistance from iraq army,. we do however from insergents and they still fighting after all bombing and drones.

and no you we can't bomb china as we did with pak, and a stan and iraq, china will shot back, and i'm not too sure many bombs will be deliverd there, and i'm sure some of their bombs will get here, if they want to. not to mention they are nuclear power

Edited by aztek

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Posted (edited)

China does have the largest standing army ever recorded (to the best of my knowledge). What that means in this new world of button-pressing warfare is anyone's guess but it is a major factor that must be considered. However, Rafter nailed it: they depend on the West having a strong economy. If we fail, they fail.

Also, in regards to our effectiveness (or lack thereof?) in the Mid-East, guerilla warfare is infinitely more difficult to suppress as it does not follow conventional strategies and is by nature very sporadic and unpredictable. Our boys are out there in uniform, following formation, etc. The "insurgents" are wearing plainclothes and walking through crowds on busy streets..

Edit to add--

Here's a quick side-by-side comparison of American vs. Chinese military might. Globalfirepower.com (lol) is a fun, quick way to see who's got what (updated for 2014 stats!)

http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.asp?form=form&country1=united-states-of-america&country2=china&Submit=Compare+Countries

Edited by Dark_Grey

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we bombed iraqi retreating convoy of vehicles, they never attempted to shoot back, their army did not even fight for the most part, they ran away leaving everything. you can not use that as a argument to us strenght. we never met any resistance from iraq army,. we do however from insergents and they still fighting after all bombing and drones.

and no you we can't bomb china as we did with pak, and a stan and iraq, china will shot back, and i'm not too sure many bobs will be deliverd there, and i'm sure some of their bombs will get here, if they want to. not to mention they are nuclear power

The first objective of any war with China would be to destroy their navy, air force, and any locations where they can shoot rockets. After that, its the equivalent of a boxer who has a 2 foot reach on his opponent.

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Lets hope we never find out.

However, economically, they could kick our proverbial behinds.

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The last time America came up against China, it was ,and still is a stalemate, does the 38th parallel ring any bells..Nth Korea and Chinese ,versus Sth Korea and America/U.K/Australia and a few more.

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The first objective of any war with China would be to destroy their navy, air force, and any locations where they can shoot rockets. After that, its the equivalent of a boxer who has a 2 foot reach on his opponent.

and their objectives will be the same, do not overestimate tech, look where it got germans in ww2. or romans before

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Why why why do countries think they can do a sneak attack on us and think they can get away with it? Man.. our navy and air force is so incredibly powerful we would bring them to their knees relatively quickly. I hope we never have to do that though.

When the second most powerful country on earth begins to think it can overtake the most powerful country on earth, inevitably, war ensues. It has happened over the course of human existence.

The article says that they feel confident enough that they no longer need to do a sneak attack to win. They now feel that they can win toe to toe. The scary thing is that the author tends to agree, but for the fact of our nuclear submarine fleet.

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lol, we had hard time dealing with insergents, that are half in stone age, i do not doubt china's army is a lot more capable.

Occupational warfare is different then defense though.

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Posted (edited)

Occupational warfare is different then defense though.

true, however , china has millions more soldiers than usa, and they do not have any problems getting them killed, as much as necessary, we otoh have huge problems with casualties.

Edited by aztek

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I recently told a co-worker this: If China could create a magical suicide machine that would kill one American for every Chinese person that kill themselves, China could kill everyone in the US. China could then feel bad and replace everyone in the US with a Chinese citizen. Furthermore, there would still be 2x as many people living in China as the US. (1.35 billion Chinese vs 313 million Americans)

Given this I think China does have a leg up on occupational warfare.

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I recently told a co-worker this: If China could create a magical suicide machine that would kill one American for every Chinese person that kill themselves, China could kill everyone in the US. China could then feel bad and replace everyone in the US with a Chinese citizen. Furthermore, there would still be 2x as many people living in China as the US. (1.35 billion Chinese vs 313 million Americans)

Given this I think China does have a leg up on occupational warfare.

true, however , china has millions more soldiers than usa, and they do not have any problems getting them killed, as much as nessesary, we otoh have huge problems with casualties.

True, but the logistics for an occupation with an army that size would be a nightmare. Specially for how much land the U.S owns.

If they went for a straight up genocide though that could be a different story...

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Posted (edited)

The last time the US went up against China was in Vietnam, and we lost. Because we couldn't bomb aircraft sitting on airfields or other politically incorrect targets in N Vietnam for fear of angering China and dragging them into the war. We couldn't march up the coast and actually invade North Vietnam like we needed to, to win that war. We couldn't bomb that big ship that docked in the harbor every month or two delivering mass quantities of supplies from the USSR. China was the one political wildcard that guaranteed our defeat. So we let our own children die, year after year, for God knows what, in a "limited war" that didn't accomplish anything but raise the death tolls and drag the war on for much longer than it needed to. We dropped more bombs on Vietnam (and illegally bombed Laos and Cambodia too but who cares) than all world powers dropped in all of WWII and still couldn't win a war against Vietnam. Now we're talking about winning a war with China in 2014? Only if China invaded the US and not the other way around.

Of course there's going to be strains on China's economy today. There were plenty of strains on the US's economy in the 19th and 20th century too and plenty of problems. Everything goes up and down, and economies going up hard are going to come down harder. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with China's economy compared to its contemporaries that make China's uniquely about to crash. When you're in debt and you don't pay, you destroy your economy, not your creditors'. Rafterman's assumption is that if we don't pay China back, they're screwed. And I don't see anything by way of facts to entertain that notion for one moment. Credit is the new money and if you don't handle your credit, you don't know how to handle money. When its perceived the US won't pay its creditors, the dollar is going to be the victim, not the maker of $20 DVD players in China who will be very busy selling them to Chinese consumers.

Edited by Yamato
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you haven't being paying attention over the past few months? your air force is shrinking, its not about how big our military is, its about how to deal with economic implications

America's navy, air-force, and military shrinks or grows depending on the threat assessment of potential threats to our assists around the world. It has nothing to do with the economic, it is political ploy by the president to make it look like he is doing something for the economy when all he is doing is what is already an policy in the pentagon.

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China is a big country that I wouldn't want to mess with.

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Of course they do. So did the Soviets.

The problem with China, as the article points out, is that its economy is unsustainable and it will eventually crash under its own weight - the strains are already beginning to show. They may end up consolidating some territory and power in their region, but I can't foresee anything more than another Cold War type situation when it comes to the US.

Besides, given what happened to the Chinese economy when the crash hit the US in 2008, they seem much more dependent upon good relations with us than we are with them. If we're not paying back debt and buying $20 DVD players, things go very bad for them very quickly.

Exactly. .. it's a catch 22.

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