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RoofGardener

Gaza Invasion looming ?

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It looks like the Israeli's are gearing up for a land incursion into Gaza.

Last time they did this, there mere threat was enough to force HAMAS to declare a truce in rocket/mortar fire.

Will they do it this time ?

Will Israel even recognise a truce, or suspect that it is all just Kitman to allow HAMAS to re-arm ?

Place 'yer bets, Ladies.

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Not gonna lie, I am a bit shocked there has been so little violence and volatility in Gaza during Bush's West Asian Adventure.

Now that Israel is provoked things are going to get very interesting in the Near East.

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Israel is provoking things like being hit over and over by missiles from Gaza.

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Israel is provoking things like being hit over and over by missiles from Gaza.

Bibi nearly prostrated himself and his country trying to avoid this conflict. How was he answered? The "game" there is all about perceptions and he came across as weak. That is DEADLY in the M.E. and he knows it. My guess is that he will be blamed for instigating it by appearing to be weak. The whole conflict is insane.

If Israel follows the same path of mobilizing and then allows a truce then we'll see this little drama again in a year or two. "Protective Edge" in Hebrew translates "buffer zone". Maybe they have decided to change the facts on the ground a bit.

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Not gonna lie, I am a bit shocked there has been so little violence and volatility in Gaza during Bush's West Asian Adventure.

Now that Israel is provoked things are going to get very interesting in the Near East.

This brushfire at this particular time might lead to an unforeseen escalation. All it will take is for the Sunni Shia maniacs to decide to turn on their common enemy to save their "brotherly" Palestinian friend. God help all the neighbors if the IDF really decides to take off the gloves.
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This brushfire at this particular time might lead to an unforeseen escalation. All it will take is for the Sunni Shia maniacs to decide to turn on their common enemy to save their "brotherly" Palestinian friend. God help all the neighbors if the IDF really decides to take off the gloves.

If they tried it there would be a hellish war in quick order.

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The problem would not be conquering Gaza but ruling it.

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Very true, Frank... very true.

Meanwhile, a BBC report http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28241273 quotes a Palestinian source as saying that HAMAS has offered a ceasefire, but that NetenYahooooo has rejected it.

If true, then it would suggest that seems the Israeli's are tired of the Palestinian tactic of provoking, and then pulling back from the brink at the last minute.

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Israel needs more land and with time, they need to have all of Palestine land. It's a fact. The map is unchanged for too much time i guess..

This latest violence there has been set up professionally, that is what i believe, with Hamas being so stupid to start rocket attacks which can't make them any good ( in terms of making their position at negotiations stronger ) but they just make their own people suffer as a result. Too many people already died and whats even worse many of them are children, and for what?

Because when Hamas use rockets - Israeli administration won't think - they will retaliate in very, very harsh way and will always find a way to justify its actions ( like what they said about 8 people killed in the house - we gave warning shot! ). Its rude to even try and justify murders. Reminds me of the words of Balkans lunatics... ' if you harm one of us we will kill 100 of them '. Barbaric. I feel that we can, almost surely, expect full scale invasion from Israel very soon and all that was happening recently are just steps needed to happen to get there. All of that happened after two Palestinian factions became united under government laws.

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Israel needs more land...

Why?

Palestine (693 ppl/km2) is more densely populated than Israel (358 ppl/km2). So, by your logic Palestine should have more right to take land than Israel.

The ambitions of Israel and the Arabs/Palestinians in the region has little to do with demographics, but a lot to do with a perceived "manifest destiny" - and it is this ideological drive that is facilitating the violence in the region. I prefer to refer to it as idiotology, rather than ideology, however.

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If by this time tomorrow Gaza isn't entirely Israeli by right of conquest (rocket fire into another country is an act of war) I'll be terribly surprised.

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Why?

Palestine (693 ppl/km2) is more densely populated than Israel (358 ppl/km2). So, by your logic Palestine should have more right to take land than Israel.

The ambitions of Israel and the Arabs/Palestinians in the region has little to do with demographics, but a lot to do with a perceived "manifest destiny" - and it is this ideological drive that is facilitating the violence in the region. I prefer to refer to it as idiotology, rather than ideology, however.

Year after year, for many decades, Israel is taking land from Palestine. It is known thing and its not different now, same thing as 50 years ago. It was the way to make settlements at first but with time Israeli appetite has grown, now they need it all because the same people who they evict from their homes are now described as terrorists who deserve to be punished.

No one has a right to take land from anyone, anywhere and maybe you have misunderstood me ( because of that ' needs land ' part, i was alluding that Israel has become too greedy ), Israel doesn't need that land today, not for living or anything so important to justify killings - but with decades of crimes, nationalism - now they feel this land was theirs always and they need it back. As for problems in this region - they started at same time when Israeli settlements started to grow and when old villages started to burn - only with time did the new 'issues' arise.

And, when you mention it, what do you think is the reason that Palestine is so densely populated? Now they ( Israeli ) need to finish what they started and claim everything...

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Israel needs more land and with time, they need to have all of Palestine land. It's a fact. The map is unchanged for too much time i guess..

This latest violence there has been set up professionally, that is what i believe, with Hamas being so stupid to start rocket attacks which can't make them any good ( in terms of making their position at negotiations stronger ) but they just make their own people suffer as a result. Too many people already died and whats even worse many of them are children, and for what?

Because when Hamas use rockets - Israeli administration won't think - they will retaliate in very, very harsh way and will always find a way to justify its actions ( like what they said about 8 people killed in the house - we gave warning shot! ). Its rude to even try and justify murders. Reminds me of the words of Balkans lunatics... ' if you harm one of us we will kill 100 of them '. Barbaric. I feel that we can, almost surely, expect full scale invasion from Israel very soon and all that was happening recently are just steps needed to happen to get there. All of that happened after two Palestinian factions became united under government laws.

I see. So 3 Israeli children are kidnapped and murdered by Hamas, Israel reacts strongly and with anger at such an atrocity, Hamas starts firing rockets and refuses to stop, Israel opens an offensive to stop hundreds of rockets falling on their citizens daily - and that is Israel's fault.... that sum it up for you Sir?
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......

And, when you mention it, what do you think is the reason that Palestine is so densely populated? .

Umm... high birth rates ?

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My predictions: Gaza is going to shrink and the West is going to stand by and justify it. Anyone who voices sympathy for the Palestinians or criticism for the Israelis will be branded an anti-Semite. More civilians will die and it won't make a dent in the blood lust of the hateful fanatics in Israel. And the hateful fanatics in Palestine will use the attacks to justify their own disgusting actions, and recruit more angry and orphaned youths so that the cycle may continue. And in the middle? Israelis and Palestinians who just want to live in peace instead being forced to live in fear.

I support the right of Israel to protect itself, just as I support the right for an oppressed people to resist their oppressors. The problem is proportion. Terrorism is a crime, and those launching rockets at Israel are criminals. What does killing civilians achieve when you're fighting a criminal organisation? How would people feel if the United States started bombing border towns in Mexico in an attempt to hit the cartels and wound up killing Mexican citizens?

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My predictions: Gaza is going to shrink and the West is going to stand by and justify it. Anyone who voices sympathy for the Palestinians or criticism for the Israelis will be branded an anti-Semite. More civilians will die and it won't make a dent in the blood lust of the hateful fanatics in Israel. And the hateful fanatics in Palestine will use the attacks to justify their own disgusting actions, and recruit more angry and orphaned youths so that the cycle may continue. And in the middle? Israelis and Palestinians who just want to live in peace instead being forced to live in fear.

I support the right of Israel to protect itself, just as I support the right for an oppressed people to resist their oppressors. The problem is proportion. Terrorism is a crime, and those launching rockets at Israel are criminals. What does killing civilians achieve when you're fighting a criminal organisation? How would people feel if the United States started bombing border towns in Mexico in an attempt to hit the cartels and wound up killing Mexican citizens?

It is indeed a horrible situation. An emblem of why it will continue, I saw in a picture the other day. Two Palestinian children looking into the camera and holding up 3 fingers. This had become popular before everyone discovered that the 3 teens had been shot dead rather than being held for years as hostages. There cannot be peace when the children are actively being taught to hate. To avoid killing civilians when your enemy hides among them is more than any military is capable of but Israel seem to be minimizing the numbers more and more. In the end though, the only hope Hamas has is to use the pile of dead civilians to force Israel into a truce so they (Hamas) can rearm and try again.

I read that "protective edge" in Hebrew translates to "buffer zone". If Israel took back a strip of a few miles and removed everyone from it then they could at least push back the source of the rocket fire. IMO Israel should use this time and clear out the area of as many weapons as possible. If the world becomes hysterical then so be it. I downloaded an iPhone app 2 days ago that chimes 3 times every time an air raid siren is activated in Israel for incoming rockets. It has gone off 4 times while I was writing this...

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I see. So 3 Israeli children are kidnapped and murdered by Hamas, Israel reacts strongly and with anger at such an atrocity, Hamas starts firing rockets and refuses to stop, Israel opens an offensive to stop hundreds of rockets falling on their citizens daily - and that is Israel's fault.... that sum it up for you Sir?

As you can see i did wrote that Hamas reacted in a stupid way in my first post ( i explained why i think Israel will invade ), hooked as a fish and i blame Hamas first because of their actions ( rockets, which cant do any good ) Israel now is in such position that they can try to justify anything.

Umm... high birth rates ?

:td:

Even if it was a joke - it was disgusting one.

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Bitter seeds bring forth a bitter harvest and the bitter seeds planted when the Zionist cult first took hold in Palestine are in full flower,and the fruit is bitter, indeed. Ignorance animosity, prejudice and hate, are the dynamics that move events, and both sides share the blame. The outside world has no conception of the depths of hatred these people hold for one-another. There will never be any peace or coexistence between them, only an occasional uneasy and oft broken armistice, now and then. Someday the conflict will end, and rather horribly, for one or both sides.

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Posted (edited)

I wish there was an end to this damn conflict. Hamas got two options... to give up their goal of destroying Israel or end up under the boots of their soldiers who will wipe them from the face of the earth. Half ass jobs don't bring peace, only brings an pause between conflicts. Israel should finish the job or Hamas should give up and never look back.

Edited by Uncle Sam
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Bitter seeds bring forth a bitter harvest and the bitter seeds planted when the Zionist cult first took hold in Palestine are in full flower,and the fruit is bitter, indeed. Ignorance animosity, prejudice and hate, are the dynamics that move events, and both sides share the blame. The outside world has no conception of the depths of hatred these people hold for one-another. There will never be any peace or coexistence between them, only an occasional uneasy and oft broken armistice, now and then. Someday the conflict will end, and rather horribly, for one or both sides.

Well said, i just hope that the end of this story will be better, somehow.

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Posted (edited)

Well said, i just hope that the end of this story will be better, somehow.

Two equally fanatical religious societies trying to occupy the same turf at the same time. The end will be something like genocide. It's inevitable. The hatred, especially from the Palestinian side, is pathological. From the Zionist side it's paranoid fear and reactionary violence. I'm not using Zion or Zionist as a slur. The Zionist movement of the nineteenth century is the origin of the State of Israel. The animosity between the two sides began immediately. Edited by John Wesley Boyd

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Posted (edited)

I think that is a very negative viewpoint, JWB. I'm sure that I could give you examples of Muslims and Jews living together in harmony.

the first example is.. of course... Israel itself. It is a multicultural society which includes free religious worship,

But moving beyond Israel's borders, and expanding into the Arabian Peninsula... lets see those examples of tolerant Nations.

<flicks through the pages of history>

<flickflickflick>

Oh :(

****. it appears not ?

Israel is the only example of a pluralist representative democracy, with freedom of worship, within a 1000 mile radius.

Hmmm.......

Edited by RoofGardener
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I think that is a very negative viewpoint, JWB. I'm sure that I could give you examples of Muslims and Jews living together in harmony.

the first example is.. of course... Israel itself. It is a multicultural society which includes free religious worship,

But moving beyond Israel's borders, and expanding into the Arabian Peninsula... lets see those examples of tolerant Nations.

<flicks through the pages of history>

<flickflickflick>

Oh :(

****. it appears not ?

Israel is the only example of a pluralist representative democracy, with freedom of worship, within a 1000 mile radius.

Hmmm.......

They always get a little stumped on that one. Some of his point is well taken but the bit about religious extremism in Israel is a hard sell since the country is primarily secular.
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Very true, Frank... very true.

Meanwhile, a BBC report http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28241273 quotes a Palestinian source as saying that HAMAS has offered a ceasefire, but that NetenYahooooo has rejected it.

If true, then it would suggest that seems the Israeli's are tired of the Palestinian tactic of provoking, and then pulling back from the brink at the last minute.

Not many other countries would tolerate almost weekly missile attacks for so long without invading the region.

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Well said, i just hope that the end of this story will be better, somehow.

Nothing good will come of it. The seeds that Islam plants now will come to fruition as Islam spreads and the indigenous peoples begin to fight back. Israel fights Dhimmitude and the world remains ignorant thinking it is only between Jew and Muslim. When it came for you, you did not care for me to save you but when it came for me, no one was left to save me. The internet is the killer of Taqiya and Kitman as a sharp knife reveals the innermost truth of Islam.

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