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danielost

American Families.

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I have been paying attention to what is going in this country financially. In order to pay all of the taxes, obamacare, and take care of the family, we may need to increase a family with kids to three or four parents.

Right now it takes two working parents to pay taxes and take care of the family. But, with Obamacare and its twenty seven new taxes, the family will get hit hard. That is those in the middle and lower class, even with subsidies.

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Maybe instead of eating Lobsters stuffed with Welsh Razor Clams boiled glacier ice that has been filtered through the gallbladders of cloned dwarf elephants and that has been infused with Rosemary grown in Holland by hunchbacks all named Jaas Kees in a cave blessed by 37 different priests every 2 months.....you should....hyperbole....taxes....taxes are high so we should get some polygamy?

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Middle and lower class families don't eat lobster, they eat hamburger and that is getting to expensive for lower class. But let's raise taxesand invite central and south aAmerica to move here too.

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One thing I have noticed about American families compared to South American families is that American families tend to just take care of the immediate family members, whereas in South America the family unit tends to include the grand parents and uncles/aunts and what not. Here in the states we seem to love to ship our grandparents into nursing homes. Heck, I don't even live in the same state as my relations.

As for the children aspect, I think the worst thing a kid out of high school could do is have kids right at the get go. Live a little, establish a career, get a house or apartment and then have the kids. Having a kid too soon is pretty much dooming a large portion of people into poverty. I can't recall a single girl in my old high school class that finished a 4 year college after having a kid.

However, show me a family that needs four parents to raise children and I will show you a family that has four people who can't manage their lives well enough to merit raising a child.

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Posted (edited)

come in the shoes of a middle class UK citizens for the X mount of years

Edited by ThesillyfunnyguyIDK

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Here in the states we seem to love to ship our grandparents into nursing homes. H

To be fair, Central American nations are shipping their kids here wholesale (not even retail) hence the Immigration bomb.

But sure, they do take care of the extended families....and ship the kids away. It is almost like poor little Scourge from the classic story......

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Maybe instead of eating Lobsters stuffed with Welsh Razor Clams boiled glacier ice that has been filtered through the gallbladders of cloned dwarf elephants and that has been infused with Rosemary grown in Holland by hunchbacks all named Jaas Kees in a cave blessed by 37 different priests every 2 months.....you should....hyperbole....taxes....taxes are high so we should get some polygamy?

I am not sure what middle class to lower class families you know, but most of the ones *I* know, live around, are freinds with, work with and AM (i would be considered on the high end poverty level).. we eat a LOt of beans, rice, greens and 10 pound bags of chicken thigh/leg quarters. Most stores compete on the price of those from 49 cents a pound to 69 cents a pound. sometimes they go as high as 79 cents. We actually pass recipes along on different ways to cook these or make salads from them.

We eat a lot of corn bread too. During hunting season, those who can, hunt and then share some of what they hunt. I love deer season

So at least here in missouri, we poor people eat lke poor people.

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Well, just going on what I observe around me....

I've got one neighbor that pays for her food with food stamps, yet she is always driving nice cars, has the latest Iphones, jeans, manicures...

I know a guy who's been 'disabled' and has collected social security for years. Yet he can chop wood, ride snowmobiles, and do plenty of other activities.

I've been inside houses in the worst neighboorhoods in my area. Inside there are 60 inch flat screen tvs, the heat or air is on full blast, the adults are home during the day playing video games..

For every truly poor person in America, there seems to be 10 that are either liars, scamming the system, or just lazy dead beats.

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Well, just going on what I observe around me....

I've got one neighbor that pays for her food with food stamps, yet she is always driving nice cars, has the latest Iphones, jeans, manicures...

I know a guy who's been 'disabled' and has collected social security for years. Yet he can chop wood, ride snowmobiles, and do plenty of other activities.

I've been inside houses in the worst neighboorhoods in my area. Inside there are 60 inch flat screen tvs, the heat or air is on full blast, the adults are home during the day playing video games..

For every truly poor person in America, there seems to be 10 that are either liars, scamming the system, or just lazy dead beats.

I don't doubt your observations, but you're evidence for a ratio of 10 scammers to 1 poor person is anecdotal. They had this same thought in Florida, so they drug tested anyone who applied for state assistance. The result; they wasted more money drug testing than money saved from denying all those scammers.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/drug-test-policies-end-failure

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Well, just going on what I observe around me....

I've got one neighbor that pays for her food with food stamps, yet she is always driving nice cars, has the latest Iphones, jeans, manicures...

I know a guy who's been 'disabled' and has collected social security for years. Yet he can chop wood, ride snowmobiles, and do plenty of other activities.

I've been inside houses in the worst neighboorhoods in my area. Inside there are 60 inch flat screen tvs, the heat or air is on full blast, the adults are home during the day playing video games..

For every truly poor person in America, there seems to be 10 that are either liars, scamming the system, or just lazy dead beats.

I know where you are coming from, but it just 'seems' that way. I have some major health issues due to something that I had zero control over, and because of that one time, my heart was damaged. I will not have the same quality of life that I once had. I accept this, I work full time. I live with my two adult children in order to help make ends meet and they help me keep track of all my medications and doctor apnts plus, they just take care of me.

You would think we had it all. But we drive a 1998 car... we pay only 285 in rent for a one bed apart. we have two cell phones between ourselves, one tv.. and one lap top. we 'splurge' with cable tv. We pay for cable tv bundled with internet access.

But living as cheap as we do, we barely survive, even with ins, with the copay for meds, hospital and doctor, I am paying about 50% of my salary on medical care. I have nothing to put away for emergencies, neither do they.

We are one paycheck away from being homeless, like MANY people world wide.

We get under $200 in foodstamps, soon as they come in, we restock our hall closet with beans and rice and any canned foods on sale, we try to make sure we get 31 cans of vegies, that is one month in supply, and sugar and flours and yes, we spurge and buy tea, coffee and cocoa.

The $200 stretches so far because thankfully we pass about 4 grocery stores on the way home from any of our jobs, one of them being Aldis which is super cheap on a LOT of things, and we have another store like htem, where you bag/box your own groceries.

I have a friend on food stamps, she is suffering from cancer, her stamps barely provide two weeks of special foods for her. I have another friend who lost a leg in the military and suffered brain injuries. He can barely hold a job now, with benefits from military and food stamps he could not pay copay on all his medication. he had a choice, pay meds, or pay rent.

He is living at salvation army now.

I admit some pple getting help seem to not deserve it, i see pple here who get stamps and have like 6 kids by 3 or more different fathers, and i want to choke them.

But i am pretty darn sure the abusers of the system do not out weight the ones who really need the help.

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Polygamy is not nessacery in this, you could have two families.

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I hate when people generalize about food stamps. I receive food stamps and if you didn't shop with me, you wouldn't know why I buy what I do. I've bought soda (ginger ale and 7-Up), when I couldn't afford to buy Prilosec for my acid reflux and I started throwing up again, and was given a snootful from the person behind me. I've seen hamburger lately for $3.99, so when London Broil was $2.99, that's what I bought instead - and got called out for buying steak on food stamps. I ration my food and my food stamps very carefully and right now I'm only eating two meals a day of just one thing. Say, for instance, I get a package of chicken breasts. One chicken breast is one meal. And that's it. So at the end of the month, when I have scrimped through the weeks and actually have $10 left on the 31st, I buy myself a treat, like chips or Cheetos. And someone always has to make a remark about how they can't afford to do that but here I'm buying chips on foodstamps. I've even had people complain about the bread I buy, saying I should be making it and I wouldn't have to spend so much. Seriously? By the time you buy the flour, the bread pans, and the yeast, you could just buy the bread. As a matter of fact, I do make bread on occasion - I am on a bread making forum. All I can say is, MYOB, people. Honestly, we complain about the nanny state, but have we ever considered that the nanny state was brought about by all the nanny people?

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I hate to say this, but I'm gonna anyway. When we state that everything in this life is about the choices we make that cause us to be poor or homeless or on welfare, then we have to say that having children is also a choice we make. We've had birth control in this country for over 50 years now. If people are complaining about how hard and how expensive it is to raise a child today, and they are into the choice thing, they have to admit that having kids when you don't already have a million dollars in the bank is a choice that people make to be poor. If someone wants to say children shouldn't be considered that way, well, then, the people needing help in this country shouldn't be considered that way either. It's either about the choices we make or it isn't. We can't have it both ways. If we want to run down the people on welfare and food stamps for making bad choices, then we have to run down the people who have kids when they knew they couldn't afford them, married or not, working or not, white or not. If we say the poor make bad choices to keep them poor, then having kids is one of those choices that keep people poor as well. If we're going to talk about families, maybe it's time to step up to the plate and make it a requirement that any family wanting to have kids needs to have a cash reserve of about $100,000 and can show proof of income before they're allowed to procreate.

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Children are supposed to take care of parents, when the parents get too old or sick to take care of themselves.

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Posted (edited)

Children are supposed to take care of parents, when the parents get too old or sick to take care of themselves.

Why? I'm not being obtuse, but why does it fall to the kids? The parents should plan for a time when they wont be able to work, save, etc etc. So that specifically the kids aren't burdened with them later.

Edited by Scheming B
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Well it is the moral thing to do. Also I think that attitude is a throwback from a time where wealth enough to care for oneself in the future was not able to be stored. Though I can see current people who resign themselves to being poor having children because they see no other way to take care of themselves in the future.

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Posted (edited)

Despite some exceptions, It is all about choices. That sounds harsh and unfair, but it's the truth. If you can't afford to live where you do, you have to move. If one job isn't enough to make ends meet, you either need to cut your budget, or find another job. It sucks, but that's the way it works. Somehow, there are millions of single moms that do it everyday. Somehow there millions of disabled folks that still can do it. It's not all luck.

There is aid there for people who need it. There are tons of programs for lower income people. So many that is boggles the mind. The problem really stems that when a person tries to go to work and do the right thing, they become ineligible for many of those. It makes good financial sense to stay unemployed...thus we have generational poverty.

I'm sorry, but we are a bit spoiled in the way we think about being 'poor'. American poor is not the same as 3rd World Country poor. Having someone get snooty over your food stamp steak purchase isn't the same as not having clean drinking water.

Choices. If you make bad ones, don't expect that the society owes you something.

Edited by supervike

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Posted (edited)

I'd agree with you, Supervike, but when poor people DO take advantage of those programs, they're called names and treated like dirt. And of course, the "choices" that you make are all pretty much subjective. What's a good choice for you may seem like a terrible choice to someone else. We don't have a choice god.

For instance, I worked full time and completely supported myself from 1974 to 2008. In that time, I did move to another state to pay cheaper rent. I'm not working now and all of a sudden, according to my brother, I am a leech to society and one of those terrible people who milk the system. The fact that I am on disability for my back problems and have had a stroke means nothing to him. One of the things he told me was that one of my bad choices I made to bring this upon myself was that I bought a dog. That was in 1977. The dog died in 1989. Silly, yes, but my question is, how far back in life do you want to go to accuse someone of making the bad choices that got them where they are today? In ten years I went from homeless to owning a house. At that time, people thought I was a success story. Now that I'm disabled and living on $200 a month, people think buying the house was a bad life choice. Honestly, which was it? And can we blame people for not haveing 20/20 foresight?

*edited for the fifty million errors I make when typing

Edited by rodentraiser

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I'd agree with you, Supervike, but when poor people DO take advantage of those programs, they're called names and treated like dirt. And of course, the "choices" that you make are all pretty much subjective. What's a good choice for you may seem like a terrible choice to someone else. We don't have a choice god.

For instance, I worked full time and completely supported myself from 1974 to 2008. In that time, I did move to another state to pay cheaper rent. I'm not working now and all of a sudden, according to my brother, I am a leech to society and one of those terrible people who milk the system. The fact that I am on disability for my back problems and have had a stroke means nothing to him. One of the things he told me was that one of my bad choices I made to bring this upon myself was that I bought a dog. That was in 1977. The dog died in 1989. Silly, yes, but my question is, how far back in life do you want to go to accuse someone of making the bad choices that got them where they are today? In ten years I went from homeless to owning a house. At that time, people thought I was a success story. Now that I'm disabled and living on $200 a month, people think buying the house was a bad life choice. Honestly, which was it? And can we blame people for not haveing 20/20 foresight?

*edited for the fifty million errors I make when typing

bad choices? I was homeless from october till feb.. i now have a cheap one bed aprt.. and cats.. why? because even my cardiologist said 'if you can do it, get a pet or pets you feel good about, your blood pressure should not be a norm of 180 over 90 even while on meds, pets can help you calm down and lower blood pressure'.. i live with my children now.. to help make ends meet

To be honest.. i dont see why you get accused of making a bad choice, did you choose to have health problems? Do you revel in it.. ?

You cannot have foresight though it would be nice if we could.

i do know pple make bad choices. I see it every day, but no one is all about bad choices. you can make bad choices and not be homeless and good choices and be homeless anyway.

It is NOT all about bad choices.

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That is why my very first sentence reads DESPITE SOME EXCEPTIONS.

Health reasons are certainly tops on that list. That is why programs to help lower income folks SHOULD exist.

But, be honest with me, do you know anyone on Food Stamps that still can afford cigarettes? That can scrape up the money for a tattoo, yet can't seem to pay their fair share?

Again, for every one person that seems to be actually eligible, there are sooo many more that just pull the whole system down.

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The democrats want as many people on these programs possible. The more on them the better the government is doing its job.

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Supervike, I know what you said and I agree there are exceptions. But you may be the exception for saying that. Virtually everybody I encounter from the "It's all about bad choices" group thinks that everyone, with no exceptions, who is on welfare, food stamps, or getting help from the government, made bad choices that led them to that point. I understand why, of course. If people admit that bad things can happen to anyone, even good people, then they are faced with the fact that it might happen to them, too. So if people make what happens to poor people their own fault, they can relax and say, "It will never happen to me because I'm so perfect.". It's like I always say, the higher you are, the faster the fall and the harder it is when you land. And some of those people just have to land before they can understand it's not always about bad choices.

Willowdreams, my brother's an idiot. I ignore him because my self worth doesn't depend on his opinions, especially after he took out a huge mortgage on his condo to buy a $40,000 car seven years ago. His condo is now underwater. If he loses his job, he loses his condo, his car, and everything else. I'd throw it in his face, but I promised my mom I wouldn't let him know she told me. By the way, if he knew about my stroke (which was an aneurysm), I'm sure he'd find a way of making it my fault. LOL

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If anyone gets a chance to see a documentary called run away slave, do it. It digs right to the heart of of this matter. Black folks have been targeted with social experiments, into a new form of slavery.

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This thread isn't about good or bad choices. It is about paying half your paycheck( two thirds after Obacare kicks in) in taxes. The only bad choice in this case is who got elected into office.

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This thread isn't about good or bad choices. It is about paying half your paycheck( two thirds after Obacare kicks in) in taxes. The only bad choice in this case is who got elected into office.

What do you do for a living Daniel?

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