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cherrylollipop

Bigfoot, nessie sightings -- phantom theory

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I have an alternate theory that I've never heard discussed anywhere, so I felt like this was the perfect place to offer it. People "see" Bigfoot and Nessie... even dinosaurs, apparently... is it possible that these creatures are just phantoms of living creatures that once existed on earth? We already theorize that the ape-like humanoid (or walking ape) is the link to the evolution of our species or, at very least, existed at one time. We know for a fact that dinosaurs existed, and you can probably count the 'Loch Ness monster' as a dinosaur sighting, because descriptions bear a close resemblance to the extinct water-type prehistoric species Elasmosaurus. If ghost phenomena is real, and I'm not implying that as fact because it is still regarded as mystery, couldn't it be possible that perhaps these creatures are apparitions? I mean, just like the point that many people bring up, we never find any bigfoot feces, any dead bodies, we never see any bigfoot children, and despite many sightings nobody ever sees more than one at a time. I've also heard stories of people looking up and seeing suddenly what they believe is a pterodactyl in the sky, which promptly disappears. These claims are less frequent but still happen on occasion.

*I have to note that I am not arguing that Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster, among others, are real, or sightings by people are credible. I am simply imagining for arguments sake that they are credible accounts. I am VERY skeptical when it comes to legendary cryptozoology.

If human energy from another time is (allegedly) able to remain on earth, who are we to say that other living beings aren't capable of the same thing? Especially if those creatures are capable of more complex emotion, which I am inclined to believe plays a part in the potency of energy. Just a thought.

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I have to say, the idea that these cryptids are the ghosts of now dead things, is a new one to me.

I don't hate it. In the sense that it's novel to me and not a theory I had heard before.

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Well now that raises an interesting question....just what is a ghost exactly or even theoretically...

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Posted (edited)

Well now that raises an interesting question....just what is a ghost exactly or even theoretically...

That is the right question.

I think that it is very possible that ghost phenomena is a biological science that we are not currently capable of understanding. I'm not sure if we ever will be capable. There is an equation there and we are missing the main components, let alone the solution. All I know is that energy, emotion, environment, perhaps electromagnetism, and various other elements seem to be key, but that is the only pattern discernable. In that way it seems like ghostly phenomena must have a scientific reason, and I don't understand how people automatically connect ghosts to religious spiritualism. I don't see it that way. Just because something is "unexplainable" it does not mean there is no explanation.

I have found this to be a gap in between the thought "that it must be proof of the 'traditional' sense of the afterlife" and "science is fact, we know all major life science, so ghosts aren't real." Science is fact, but we know very little still. It's so frustrating that there are such limited thoughts on the subject!

Edited by cherrylollipop
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Well there was that movie "Ghost Shark" :w00t:

But that was a very interesting read, i believe that energy from living creatures hangs around after death so for me personally it's plausable.

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Welcome to UM, cherrylollipop! :)

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Posted (edited)

The late John Keel proposed the idea that some cryptids were cross dimensional manifestations, phasing in and out of our reality. His books should be required reading for people who follow these topics. Whether or not you believe what he writes, he had, none-the-less, a lot of intriguing notions.

Edited by John Wesley Boyd

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I would have to say no. Now in this argument we are assuming Bigfoot is real. The phantom theory couldn't be applied as it doesn't account for disturbing or interacting with the environment as it leaves tracks, trails, snapped trees and so on. If it was apparition then it would not be interaction with any matter and don't forget the reports of people seeing Bigfoot eating or finding his stools. But I am sure there be someone arguing on this and would like to remind them this is all speculation till either the cryptid is proven real or not.

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Welcome to UM!

That's an interesting theory. A problem I have with it is that Bigfoot is said to be an actual animal, with people reporting that they breed, eat, produce waste, and build shelters. Nessie is said to eat as well (there only ever seems to be one Nessie in Loch Ness for a very long time). Ghosts usually don't do these kinds of things.

It's still an interesting theory though.

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I would have to say no. Now in this argument we are assuming Bigfoot is real. The phantom theory couldn't be applied as it doesn't account for disturbing or interacting with the environment as it leaves tracks, trails, snapped trees and so on. If it was apparition then it would not be interaction with any matter and don't forget the reports of people seeing Bigfoot eating or finding his stools. But I am sure there be someone arguing on this and would like to remind them this is all speculation till either the cryptid is proven real or not.

Like you said, this is all speculation. There are enough people who so badly want to believe in the living, breathing bigfoot, they will claim to see him in his natural habitat to lend to that theory. I am less likely to consider claims like that than I am to consider a more simple, less dramatic one. I don't know that it really leaves trails, I don't know that it leaves snapped branches... I have no idea what things people are convincing themselves of. It's easy to see a giant pile of poo and say, "well that must be bigfoot's." I don't know about all that... its all questionable.

Besides, you're forgetting that there are just as many claims that ghosts have interacted with people, sometimes even directly. There are stories of items mysteriously being moved which would only be possible if ghosts could move matter. Why can't they? I don't know what they can do, because I don't have the scientific answers. No one does. Just stories. Which can be said for both ghost and bigfoot sightings, but to be very honest, I have heard more credible ghost sighting accounts than I have bigfoot. I've heard logic-driven, skeptical, reputable people say, "even I admit, I do not know how, but this (ghost experience) happened and I saw/felt it, and I cannot offer a reasonable explanation for it." But Bigfoot sightings, I don't know... the only color they seem to come in is "iffy".

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Welcome to UM!

That's an interesting theory. A problem I have with it is that Bigfoot is said to be an actual animal, with people reporting that they breed, eat, produce waste, and build shelters. Nessie is said to eat as well (there only ever seems to be one Nessie in Loch Ness for a very long time). Ghosts usually don't do these kinds of things.

It's still an interesting theory though.

Thank you!

So I know that people say these things, that Bigfoot breeds and eats and makes shelters and whatnot but there is a serious lack of evidence to support it. Where are the shelters? I've never seen one! And Nessie from what I've heard is only caught in glimpses at the top of the water and no evidence is ever found upon further investigation to validate it being there. (Also just to note Nessie is not the only "sea serpent" to be seen, I believe there is another lake area of frequent claimed sightings in Canada... can't recall the name of the lake!)

That said, technically, if a ghost (again assuming they are real) can appear as residual energy, couldn't it very well appear as it looked doing any sort of recurrent activity?

I need to stress that I am not saying this is the theory that I absolutely believe!

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If they are a spirit, entity, ghost or something like that it would explain why all the high quality cameras, video equipment and cell phones only take BLURRY pictures.

Forgive me if I mention Blurry often when I post, it is the reason I like these threads. Blurry pictures are fun to look at and wonder what it actually is, and members replies are so funny at times. :whistle:

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Thank you!

So I know that people say these things, that Bigfoot breeds and eats and makes shelters and whatnot but there is a serious lack of evidence to support it. Where are the shelters? I've never seen one! And Nessie from what I've heard is only caught in glimpses at the top of the water and no evidence is ever found upon further investigation to validate it being there. (Also just to note Nessie is not the only "sea serpent" to be seen, I believe there is another lake area of frequent claimed sightings in Canada... can't recall the name of the lake!)

That said, technically, if a ghost (again assuming they are real) can appear as residual energy, couldn't it very well appear as it looked doing any sort of recurrent activity?

I need to stress that I am not saying this is the theory that I absolutely believe!

Oh yeah I totally agree. For a creature that produces so much waste and eats and breeds and make shelters, it does a pretty good job at leaving nothing behind. I was just saying what eyewitnesses and Bigfootologists report.

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Bigfoot, Nessie I have a hard time believing either of these creatures are real. I think you have a interesting theory but we still need more proof. Nothing shows any one that they exist. Although I wish that they did, what a story that would make..Welcome Cherrylollipop. Please keep posting your thoughts....

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TAPS and Finding Bigfoot will now be joining forces.......

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I have an alternate theory that I've never heard discussed anywhere, so I felt like this was the perfect place to offer it. People "see" Bigfoot and Nessie... even dinosaurs, apparently... is it possible that these creatures are just phantoms of living creatures that once existed on earth? We already theorize that the ape-like humanoid (or walking ape) is the link to the evolution of our species or, at very least, existed at one time. We know for a fact that dinosaurs existed, and you can probably count the 'Loch Ness monster' as a dinosaur sighting, because descriptions bear a close resemblance to the extinct water-type prehistoric species Elasmosaurus. If ghost phenomena is real, and I'm not implying that as fact because it is still regarded as mystery, couldn't it be possible that perhaps these creatures are apparitions? I mean, just like the point that many people bring up, we never find any bigfoot feces, any dead bodies, we never see any bigfoot children, and despite many sightings nobody ever sees more than one at a time. I've also heard stories of people looking up and seeing suddenly what they believe is a pterodactyl in the sky, which promptly disappears. These claims are less frequent but still happen on occasion.

*I have to note that I am not arguing that Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster, among others, are real, or sightings by people are credible. I am simply imagining for arguments sake that they are credible accounts. I am VERY skeptical when it comes to legendary cryptozoology.

If human energy from another time is (allegedly) able to remain on earth, who are we to say that other living beings aren't capable of the same thing? Especially if those creatures are capable of more complex emotion, which I am inclined to believe plays a part in the potency of energy. Just a thought.

Ready.....

Now we are taking at least 3 things, ( ghosts,Bigfoot, Nessie ) that are not even close to being proven to exist......Throwing them in a big pot, stirring it up, and using all of them combined as a reason we have no proof?

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Posted (edited)

Ready.....

Now we are taking at least 3 things, ( ghosts,Bigfoot, Nessie ) that are not even close to being proven to exist......Throwing them in a big pot, stirring it up, and using all of them combined as a reason we have no proof?

I agree with you. There is little proof that any of them exist, but I guess where my thinking is, from a scientific standpoint -- ghosts I can see having a scientific explanation for (if they are in fact real), however, real animals/creatures existing around populated areas but nobody finding them or anything they've left behind? That I have a problem with. To be honest, I have a problem with pretty much every Bigfoot and Nessie claim someone makes. Most of the time I think people have not clearly identified what they were seeing, are lying, or are all hyped up by the local Bigfoot crazies.

But my pattern of thought was this: (in the case of Bigfoot and Nessie) These creatures aren't that alien to the planet. You know what I mean? These are the only two that aren't out of the realm of earthly possibility based on earth history. Both seem oddly reminiscent of creatures that did live on earth at one point. To build onto my initial consideration, if ghosts were to somehow have a scientific explanation and it could at some point be concluded that the energy of past humans do have some sort of place in the present, would it be illogical to think that energies of other animals do as well? That's the only question I'm asking. Just something I wonder, not something I believe to be true.

Edited by cherrylollipop

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Posted (edited)

I agree with you. There is little proof that any of them exist, but I guess where my thinking is, from a scientific standpoint -- ghosts I can see having a scientific explanation for (if they are in fact real), however, real animals/creatures existing around populated areas but nobody finding them or anything they've left behind? That I have a problem with. To be honest, I have a problem with pretty much every Bigfoot and Nessie claim someone makes. Most of the time I think people have not clearly identified what they were seeing, are lying, or are all hyped up by the local Bigfoot crazies.

But my pattern of thought was this: (in the case of Bigfoot and Nessie) These creatures aren't that alien to the planet. You know what I mean? These are the only two that aren't out of the realm of earthly possibility based on earth history. Both seem oddly reminiscent of creatures that did live on earth at one point. To build onto my initial consideration, if ghosts were to somehow have a scientific explanation and it could at some point be concluded that the energy of past humans do have some sort of place in the present, would it be illogical to think that energies of other animals do as well? That's the only question I'm asking. Just something I wonder, not something I believe to be true.

I still can not buy in.

No fossils of Nessie or Bigfoot, so , no history.

You should be saying T-Rex and Brontiasaurus???........Whatever the sea dwelling one was.( yup, I really suck at Dinosaurs )

Even then, I can't see it.

Edited by Sakari

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Posted (edited)

I still can not buy in.

No fossils of Nessie or Bigfoot, so , no history.

You should be saying T-Rex and Brontiasaurus???........Whatever the sea dwelling one was.( yup, I really suck at Dinosaurs )

Even then, I can't see it.

No fossils?

We have discovered skeletons of the Elasmosaurus, which is how we know that it existed. Skeletons are better than fossils, they're the stamp used to make the fossil.

Bigfoot is another story, as we're still searching for the remains of the walking ape linked to the human species that I referred to before.

but that's beside the point.

Literally all I am saying here: If you believe in "ghosts", could you also theorize that these "sighted" (whether genuine or not remains to be seen) animal creatures not recognized as current or recently living species, theoretically be connected to that belief?

Edited by cherrylollipop

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I have an alternate theory that I've never heard discussed anywhere, so I felt like this was the perfect place to offer it. People "see" Bigfoot and Nessie... even dinosaurs, apparently... is it possible that these creatures are just phantoms of living creatures that once existed on earth? We already theorize that the ape-like humanoid (or walking ape) is the link to the evolution of our species or, at very least, existed at one time. We know for a fact that dinosaurs existed, and you can probably count the 'Loch Ness monster' as a dinosaur sighting, because descriptions bear a close resemblance to the extinct water-type prehistoric species Elasmosaurus. If ghost phenomena is real, and I'm not implying that as fact because it is still regarded as mystery, couldn't it be possible that perhaps these creatures are apparitions? I mean, just like the point that many people bring up, we never find any bigfoot feces, any dead bodies, we never see any bigfoot children, and despite many sightings nobody ever sees more than one at a time. I've also heard stories of people looking up and seeing suddenly what they believe is a pterodactyl in the sky, which promptly disappears. These claims are less frequent but still happen on occasion.

*I have to note that I am not arguing that Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster, among others, are real, or sightings by people are credible. I am simply imagining for arguments sake that they are credible accounts. I am VERY skeptical when it comes to legendary cryptozoology.

If human energy from another time is (allegedly) able to remain on earth, who are we to say that other living beings aren't capable of the same thing? Especially if those creatures are capable of more complex emotion, which I am inclined to believe plays a part in the potency of energy. Just a thought.

When one has to resort to woo to explain woo, it's time to give up.

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I actually suggested that Nessie was a ghost of a dinosaur for a joke in a thread a few months ago,now people are considering it seriously :cry:

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TAPS and Finding Bigfoot will now be joining forces.......

TAPping Bigfoot.

sounds like a terrifying porn

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TAPping Bigfoot.

sounds like a terrifying porn

Bow Chicka Bow Wow, Bow Chicka Wow Wow, Wakka Chikka Wakka Chikka

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I have an alternate theory that I've never heard discussed anywhere, so I felt like this was the perfect place to offer it. People "see" Bigfoot and Nessie... even dinosaurs, apparently... is it possible that these creatures are just phantoms of living creatures that once existed on earth?

This is not actually a new idea:

Could it be that certain animals of a strange and fantastic nature seen today are actually the spirits or ghosts of creatures that became extinct thousands of years ago?

...

“Maybe Bigfoot is a phantimal,” said Josh to me, utilizing a term he uses to describe ghostly beasts, “perhaps even the ghost of a prehistoric creature, similar to the enormous extinct possible ape, Gigantopithecus, or maybe even the spirits of primitive humans.”

And, in a similar fashion, Josh told me, he was not at all adverse to the idea that the world’s most famous lake-monster, Nessie, might actually represent some form of “ghostly plesiosaur,” rather than a literal, living animal or colony of animals.

[Quoting Joshua P. Warren - author of Pet Ghosts]

Lair of the Beasts: Creatures of the Spectral Kind by Nick Redfern.

On Art Bell’s Coast To Coast AM radio show Ed Dames claims to have remote-viewed Loch Ness and found the monster to be the ghost of an aquatic dinosaur.

It has even been claimed that Aleister Crowley was responsible for the spate of monster sightings around Loch Ness in the 1930s after summoning serpentine spectres/demons via complex Magick rituals at Boleskine House...

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This is not actually a new idea:

Could it be that certain animals of a strange and fantastic nature seen today are actually the spirits or ghosts of creatures that became extinct thousands of years ago?

...

“Maybe Bigfoot is a phantimal,” said Josh to me, utilizing a term he uses to describe ghostly beasts, “perhaps even the ghost of a prehistoric creature, similar to the enormous extinct possible ape, Gigantopithecus, or maybe even the spirits of primitive humans.”

And, in a similar fashion, Josh told me, he was not at all adverse to the idea that the world’s most famous lake-monster, Nessie, might actually represent some form of “ghostly plesiosaur,” rather than a literal, living animal or colony of animals.

[Quoting Joshua P. Warren - author of Pet Ghosts]

Lair of the Beasts: Creatures of the Spectral Kind by Nick Redfern.

On Art Bell’s Coast To Coast AM radio show Ed Dames claims to have remote-viewed Loch Ness and found the monster to be the ghost of an aquatic dinosaur.

It has even been claimed that Aleister Crowley was responsible for the spate of monster sightings around Loch Ness in the 1930s after summoning serpentine spectres/demons via complex Magick rituals at Boleskine House...

That's very interesting, thank you for sharing! The only reason I posted to this forum is because I'd never heard anyone else bring it up, so this was just what I was looking for, some examples of the idea in other places.

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