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LucidElement

Clovis People

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Posted (edited)

Taken from crystalinks.com.. Never heard of the Clovis people until I just read an article about it. Found it to be pretty interesting, and wanted to share with you guys, let me know if you have any insight or have read about this before.

---------------------------------------------------

LINK::: http://crystalinks.com/clovis.html

The Clovis culture is a prehistoric Native American culture that first appears in the archaeological record of North America around 13,500 years ago, at the end of the last ice age.

The culture is named for artifacts found near Clovis, New Mexico, where the first evidence of this tool complex was excavated in 1932. Earlier evidence included a mammoth skeleton with a spear-point in its ribs, found by a cowboy in 1926 near Folsom, New Mexico. Clovis sites have since been identified throughout all of the contiguous United States, as well as Mexico and Central America.

The Clovis people, also known as Paleo-Indians, are generally regarded as the the first human inhabitants of the New World, and ancestors of all the indigenous cultures of North and South America. However, this view has been recently contested by various archaeological finds which are claimed to be much older.

There are a number of controversial sites vying for the position of the earliest site in the region. The best evidence, however, suggests that a society of hunters and gatherers known as Clovis People were the first to settle in the Southwest, probably sometime before 9,500 B.C. The Clovis People were so named after the New Mexico town, site of the first discovery in 1932, near Clovis, N.M.

Since the mid 20th century, the standard theory among archaeologists has been that the Clovis people were the first inhabitants of the Americas. The primary support of the theory was that no solid evidence of pre-Clovis human inhabitation has been found. According to the standard accepted theory, the Clovis people crossed the Beringia land bridge over the Bering Strait from Siberia to Alaska during the period of lowered sea levels during the ice age, then made their way southward through an ice-free corridor east of the Rocky Mountains in present-day western Canada as the glaciers retreated.

The culture lasted for about a half a millennium, from about 11,200 to 10,900 years ago. People of the Clovis culture were successful, efficient big-game hunters and foragers. Judging from sites on the North American Great Plains, the Clovis people were skilled hunters of huge animals, especially Ice Age mammoths and mastodons.

It is generally accepted that Clovis people hunted mammoth: sites abound where Clovis points are found mixed in with mammoth remains. Whether they drove the mammoth to extinction via overhunting them - the so-called Pleistocene overkill hypothesis - is still an open, and controversial, question, keeping in mind that Archaeology is purely a theoretical endeavor.

ALSO!

And while independent invention could account for these similarities (i.e., finding the same solutions to the same questions), the oldest Clovis tools are not on the Great Plains, or in the Great Basin or Southwest of the U.S. - where they should be if the Clovis people trickled in from Siberia and then fanned out across the continent - but rather they are found in the eastern and southeastern regions of the U.S. It's possible that Ice Age Europeans may have crossed into North America by boats, hugging the edges of the great ice sheets that stretched from Greenland westward to what is now upstate New York.

Around 10,500 years ago, Clovis abruptly vanish from the archaeological record, replaced by a myriad of different local hunter-gatherer cultures. Why this happened no one knows but their disappearance coincides with the mass extinction of Ice Age big-game animals, leading to speculation that Clovis people either hunted these mammals and drove them into extinction or over-hunting eliminated a "keystone species" (usually the mammoths or mastodon) and this led to environmental collapse and a more general extinction.

Another theory about the Clovis people is that these people caused the extinction in North America at the end of the Pleistocene. Researchers who support this view generally favor one of two explanations. The first is that human over-hunting directly caused the extinction. The second is that over-hunting eliminated a "keystone species" (usually the mammoths or mastodon) and this led to environmental collapse and a more general extinction.

Edited by LucidElement
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That article's a bit out of date.

They were at one time considered the "first people" but there's an increasing amount of evidence in Texas, along the eastern coast, and down in South America (Monte Verde) that while they had a distinctive culture with tools well adapted for hunting very large animals, they were not the first people in the Americas.

Clovis doesn't quite "vanish" as much as it changes because of the difference in hunting needs. You can't hunt rabbit with a spearpoint as big as your hand.

Wikipedia has a nice summary of the current thoughts on this culture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clovis_culture

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Did a search engine beat you up as a kid and now you just refuse to use one, ever, out of pure spite, regardless of how many threads there are on any given topic, or do you just think your own contributions to any given subject are so unique and enlightening they can't be sullied by being grouped with other people's thoughts on exactly the same subject?

--Jaylemurph

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Posted (edited)

Um, Jay... Proverbs 15:1?

Edited by PersonFromPorlock
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Um, Jay... Proverbs 15:1?

You mean 12:15, though, right?

--Jaylemurph

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I do think the Clovis and a migration of people from the eastern islands were the first and cause a extinction of animals by killing whole herds, with out the thought to breed them for future food.

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Taken from crystalinks.com.. Never heard of the Clovis people until I just read an article about it. Found it to be pretty interesting, and wanted to share with you guys, let me know if you have any insight or have read about this before.

---------------------------------------------------

LINK::: http://crystalinks.com/clovis.html

The Clovis culture is a prehistoric Native American culture that first appears in the archaeological record of North America around 13,500 years ago, at the end of the last ice age.

The culture is named for artifacts found near Clovis, New Mexico, where the first evidence of this tool complex was excavated in 1932. Earlier evidence included a mammoth skeleton with a spear-point in its ribs, found by a cowboy in 1926 near Folsom, New Mexico. Clovis sites have since been identified throughout all of the contiguous United States, as well as Mexico and Central America.

The Clovis people, also known as Paleo-Indians, are generally regarded as the the first human inhabitants of the New World, and ancestors of all the indigenous cultures of North and South America. However, this view has been recently contested by various archaeological finds which are claimed to be much older.

There are a number of controversial sites vying for the position of the earliest site in the region. The best evidence, however, suggests that a society of hunters and gatherers known as Clovis People were the first to settle in the Southwest, probably sometime before 9,500 B.C. The Clovis People were so named after the New Mexico town, site of the first discovery in 1932, near Clovis, N.M.

Since the mid 20th century, the standard theory among archaeologists has been that the Clovis people were the first inhabitants of the Americas. The primary support of the theory was that no solid evidence of pre-Clovis human inhabitation has been found. According to the standard accepted theory, the Clovis people crossed the Beringia land bridge over the Bering Strait from Siberia to Alaska during the period of lowered sea levels during the ice age, then made their way southward through an ice-free corridor east of the Rocky Mountains in present-day western Canada as the glaciers retreated.

The culture lasted for about a half a millennium, from about 11,200 to 10,900 years ago. People of the Clovis culture were successful, efficient big-game hunters and foragers. Judging from sites on the North American Great Plains, the Clovis people were skilled hunters of huge animals, especially Ice Age mammoths and mastodons.

It is generally accepted that Clovis people hunted mammoth: sites abound where Clovis points are found mixed in with mammoth remains. Whether they drove the mammoth to extinction via overhunting them - the so-called Pleistocene overkill hypothesis - is still an open, and controversial, question, keeping in mind that Archaeology is purely a theoretical endeavor.

ALSO!

And while independent invention could account for these similarities (i.e., finding the same solutions to the same questions), the oldest Clovis tools are not on the Great Plains, or in the Great Basin or Southwest of the U.S. - where they should be if the Clovis people trickled in from Siberia and then fanned out across the continent - but rather they are found in the eastern and southeastern regions of the U.S. It's possible that Ice Age Europeans may have crossed into North America by boats, hugging the edges of the great ice sheets that stretched from Greenland westward to what is now upstate New York.

Around 10,500 years ago, Clovis abruptly vanish from the archaeological record, replaced by a myriad of different local hunter-gatherer cultures. Why this happened no one knows but their disappearance coincides with the mass extinction of Ice Age big-game animals, leading to speculation that Clovis people either hunted these mammals and drove them into extinction or over-hunting eliminated a "keystone species" (usually the mammoths or mastodon) and this led to environmental collapse and a more general extinction.

Another theory about the Clovis people is that these people caused the extinction in North America at the end of the Pleistocene. Researchers who support this view generally favor one of two explanations. The first is that human over-hunting directly caused the extinction. The second is that over-hunting eliminated a "keystone species" (usually the mammoths or mastodon) and this led to environmental collapse and a more general extinction.

As noted by Kenemet, your reference is notably outdated. Relatively recent re-evaluation of firm Clovis dates (Waters et al) indicates that this Paleoindian cultural component lasted from circa 13.2-13.1 to 12.9 kya, a comparatively brief period. Subsequent cultural elements (Folsom, Cumberland, etc.) actually enhanced the length of the fluting often associated with the Clovis Culture, though there are certain lithic reduction strategies that do appear to rather Clovis specific (ie consistent production of outre passe' flakes). While the studies of this period are presently quite intense, with new data becoming available at a rather rapid pace, the following should provide you with a reasonable overview of current understandings:

http://csfa.tamu.edu/who.php

As to the "overkill hypothesis", this was originally proposed by Martin in the early 1970's. This proposal was initially met with some degree of enthusiasm coupled with justified skepticism. The subsequent decades of paleontological/archaeological/climatic research have not well supported this hypothesis and current research would tend to indicate a multiplicity of causations with the climatic transition of the late Pleistocene/early Holocene likely being a primary factor.

As a last note, and as observed by others such as Jayle, you would appear to be rather slothful in regards to research for one who professes to be a student of history.

.

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OK, so the guy's a little out of date, but it's still a topic worthy of discussion.

Compared to a lot of the crap posted on this forum, a bit of science is a breath of fresh air.

There's no need to beat him up.

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Hi Toyomotor,

There are several threads where there are volumes of information and not just opinions available if one chooses to research a subject here.It is understandable when a new member is unfamiliar with how the forum works,however,when members who have been so for several years responses are less diplomatic (depending on where you hail from).Re-posting the same links redundantly frays on some peoples nerves. :yes:

jmccr8

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There's a nice short article on the finding of Clovis points among the remains of two gomphotheres in Northern Mexico. I suspect that they might have decided to tackle these (smaller) animals on the grounds of "it sorta looks like the mammoth, therefore it must be tasty" principle

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2692021/Early-man-hunted-Elephants-ancient-ancestor-Gomphothere-roamed-North-America-13-000-years-ago-hunted-Clovis.html

It's particularly exciting because early data showed these creatures only in South America (the gomphtheres, not the Clovis people.)

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Hominid groups have been hunting large game for well over 100kbp,so if it happened 13kbp I can only assume that they were happy that they weren't coming home with a couple of prairie chickens to feed the clan with. :clap:

jmccr8

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Hi Toyomotor,

There are several threads where there are volumes of information and not just opinions available if one chooses to research a subject here.It is understandable when a new member is unfamiliar with how the forum works,however,when members who have been so for several years responses are less diplomatic (depending on where you hail from).Re-posting the same links redundantly frays on some peoples nerves. :yes:

jmccr8

Thanks for your comments.

I understand what you're saying, but let him who is without sin etc. :yes:

Posting redundant info also irritates me sometimes, but the poster isn't necessarily going to know that it's been posted before.

The whole question of Paleo Ameroindian occupation of the US is one of my special interests, and if something new is posted, I'd be very interested.

Ian

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Thanks for your comments.

I understand what you're saying, but let him who is without sin etc. :yes:

Posting redundant info also irritates me sometimes, but the poster isn't necessarily going to know that it's been posted before.

The whole question of Paleo Ameroindian occupation of the US is one of my special interests, and if something new is posted, I'd be very interested.

Ian

...pretty sure I've never started a new thread on an already-extant topic, so I feel pretty free to let loose with /a/ stone. Maybe not the first one, though. (And of course the poster can know what's been posted before... by using the search engine. I believe that is the point of such technology...)

--Jaylemurph

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...pretty sure I've never started a new thread on an already-extant topic, so I feel pretty free to let loose with /a/ stone. Maybe not the first one, though. (And of course the poster can know what's been posted before... by using the search engine. I believe that is the point of such technology...)

--Jaylemurph

Fair enough.

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Taken from crystalinks.com.. Never heard of the Clovis people until I just read an article about it. Found it to be pretty interesting, and wanted to share with you guys, let me know if you have any insight or have read about this before.

What??! I thought you were a History Major. This is American History 101. :whistle:

And while independent invention could account for these similarities (i.e., finding the same solutions to the same questions), the oldest Clovis tools are not on the Great Plains, or in the Great Basin or Southwest of the U.S. - where they should be if the Clovis people trickled in from Siberia and then fanned out across the continent - but rather they are found in the eastern and southeastern regions of the U.S. It's possible that Ice Age Europeans may have crossed into North America by boats, hugging the edges of the great ice sheets that stretched from Greenland westward to what is now upstate New York.

But if the pre-clovis people came from Europe, then wouldn't we find clovis points all along the East Coast? To me that speaks of a local invention that radiated out, not a migration into the area.

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[/size]

What??! I thought you were a History Major. This is American History 101. :whistle:

[/size]

But if the pre-clovis people came from Europe, then wouldn't we find clovis points all along the East Coast? To me that speaks of a local invention that radiated out, not a migration into the area.

Did anyone say that the Clovis People were European?

Why not read something with a scientific basis about the peopling of the Americas?

The Paleo Amerindians came from Siberia, via Beringia (the land bridge that is now the Bering Sea).

My personal theory is that some Europeans could have joined the migration, but there is no proof for that.

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Did anyone say that the Clovis People were European?

I thought I quoted the relevant post... Yep, I did. It suggests that Clovis came from Europe.... Let me check again... Quote (Check), Europe (Check)...

Why not read something with a scientific basis about the peopling of the Americas?

The Paleo Amerindians came from Siberia, via Beringia (the land bridge that is now the Bering Sea).

My personal theory is that some Europeans could have joined the migration, but there is no proof for that.

Let me check my post again. Humm.... Looks like I was agreeing that it was not Europeans... I guess I should have not just said it was not Europeans, but that it was Asians that populated the Americas? So people wouldn't get confused....

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I r

But if the pre-clovis people came from Europe, then wouldn't we find clovis points all along the East Coast? To me that speaks of a local invention that radiated out, not a migration into the area.

I remember asking why , (If the clovis people crossed the berring straight.. why there have been no Clovis points found in Alaska)

And good old Swede explained to me/us that "clovis" points and tools had developed in North America...

( and if i remember right.. OLDER "clovis" style points have been found in the Southeastern U.S. , than around Clovis New Mexico (which is the area the stuff was first found and named after)

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But if the pre-clovis people came from Europe, then wouldn't we find clovis points all along the East Coast? To me that speaks of a local invention that radiated out, not a migration into the area.

There are Clovis sites in maryland, Delaware, Florida, etc., so we do find them all along the East Coast.

However, the oldest Clovis points found (so far) come from Texas.

More than 10,000 Clovis points have been discovered, scattered in 1,500 locations throughout most of North America; Clovis points, or something similar, have turned up as far south as Venezuela. They seem to have materialized suddenly, by archaeological standards, and spread fast. The oldest securely dated points, discovered in Texas, trace back 13,500 years. In a few centuries they show up everywhere from Florida to Montana, from Pennsylvania to Washington State.

Care must be taken: Dating stone objects is difficult, and the results are subject to controversy (the timeline here is from a widely cited 2007 article in Science by Michael R. Waters of Texas A&M and Thomas W. Stafford Jr., who then operated a private archaeological lab in Colorado). Even when dates are established, they are not easy to interpret. Because artifact styles—forms of pottery, tools, spear points—can change arbitrarily, one can’t say that a particular style necessarily represents a particular society. The near-simultaneous advent of Clovis points might represent the swift adoption of an improved technology by different groups, rather than the spread of one group. Still, most researchers believe that the rapid dissemination of Clovis points is evidence that a single way of life—the Clovis culture—swept across the continent in a flash. No other culture has dominated so much of the Americas.

Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-clovis-point-and-the-discovery-of-americas-first-culture-3825828/#Ig271osuCFyOqhTK.99

Give the gift of Smithsonian magazine for only $12! http://bit.ly/1cGUiGv

Follow us: @SmithsonianMag on Twitter

Harte

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Hi Toyomotor,

There are several threads where there are volumes of information and not just opinions available if one chooses to research a subject here.It is understandable when a new member is unfamiliar with how the forum works,however,when members who have been so for several years responses are less diplomatic (depending on where you hail from).Re-posting the same links redundantly frays on some peoples nerves. :yes:

jmccr8

I guess I don't have much of a problem with this thread. It accomplished one thing - Members are conversing about the subject. :yes: I've also been criticized for rekindling old threads too, so if there are threads on a subject that are a year or 2 old, I would at least consider a new thread.

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[/size]

What??! I thought you were a History Major. This is American History 101. :whistle:

[/size]

But if the pre-clovis people came from Europe, then wouldn't we find clovis points all along the East Coast? To me that speaks of a local invention that radiated out, not a migration into the area.

only took one american history class and it was the old west. The native american history never appealed to me. Just because someones a history major doesnt mean they know everything lol. History major you focus on one subject or even a couple until you graduate. And i can promise you, the clovis people wasnt one of them haha.
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Lightly and Harte: As previously noted, this particular spectrum of North American archaeological research is notably active. The investigations of a number of researchers are becoming more and more focused upon the rather now-accepted pre-Clovis cultural elements. In regards to the earliest firm Clovis documentation, and in light of the more recent research, it would be my position to retract the earlier references on my part in regards to the earliest evidences of Clovis lithic technology being associated with the southeastern United States. As noted in the following quote/citation, the rapid spread, narrow time span, and overlapping 14C dating associated with this technology makes it rather difficult to currently assign a specific regional origination point for this lithic technology. One must also consider the broader cultural implications.

.

Radiocarbon dates obtained over the last 40 years from Clovis sites across North America suggested that the complex ranged in age from 13.6 to 13ka; however, evaluation of the existing dates and new 14C assays reveals that Clovis more precisely dates from 13.2–13.1 to12.9–12.8 ka, a shorter and younger time span for Clovis than earlier thought. The current evidence suggests Clovis flourished during the late Allerød interstadial and quickly disappeared at the start of the Younger Dryas stadial. The apparent simultaneous appearance of Clovis across much of North America suggests that it rapidly expanded across the continent, but the overlap in 14C dates between regions of North America makes it impossible to determine a point of origin or direction of movement. (Goebel, et al 2008: 1499).

Further research and the application of additional rather newly applicable technologies (ie OSL, etc.) may have the potential to further refine the current understandings.

.

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There no mystery of who discover the Americas there are bones found of Asian round faces and long European faces. :)but it doesn't`t mean they came from the Atlantic ocean way.

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Hi Myles,

I think that one approach to opening a new thread about a subject that has been discuss and has worthwhile information given in links.that If a person would familiarize themselves then pose questions that they have in a new thread would likely generate more links to new research available,but I might be the only one that holds that view :yes: .Personally having an older thread where most of the posters who were active in the forum,is fine if it opens new doors. there is plenty of information available in the thread handy for review,resource,rebuttal. :tu:

jmccr8

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