Any Sorcerers on here? Purpose of Sorcery ?

[+DieChecker]

I hear ya man...

what if... no original sin?

I don't believe we are born to Original Sin. I believe that was invented to keep the masses (Medieval Catholic Church) in their places.

I believe we live in a Fallen World and that it we are predisposed to fall into that world (predisposed to sin), but I don't believe that everyone is born with sin hanging over them.

[quiXilver]

ok fair enough.

what if...

no eternal punishment?

[+DieChecker]

ok fair enough.

what if...

no eternal punishment?

I was thinking about this (sort of) the other day.

If going to Heaven is life everlasting. Then what is eternal punishment? You have to be alive to be punished right? So that too is eternal life. Weird.

Whether there is eternal punishment or not really does not matter. It is the Belief in the punishment that matters. Those that do not believe in afterlife punishment are Free to do what they will. Those who do believe in afterlife punishment, are "encouraged", just as with secular laws, to act "Good". Follow the laws and you have no consequences.

Myself, if no one gets eternally punished, but there is still Heaven, then I'll simply not go hang out with Adolf Hitler and Charlie Manson, I'll circle up with my like minded friends and family.

[Duke Wellington]

I don't believe we are born to Original Sin. I believe that was invented to keep the masses (Medieval Catholic Church) in their places.

I believe we live in a Fallen World and that it we are predisposed to fall into that world (predisposed to sin), but I don't believe that everyone is born with sin hanging over them.

I think it depends on what your interuptation of the fall of man is. The way I read it is we sought knowledge creating reality. Knowledge to satisfy thoughts we had.

In fact, and this may be controversial, I think a lot of stuff in the Bible is correct except its heavily distorted. The biggest one being an external being called God has been introduced.

[quiXilver]

Allegorically some aspects of the bible are functional.

The fall into duality consciousness after knowledge of good and evil for one.

But without having an experience which extends outside the paradigm of duality, nothing but good and evil will exist and all will be defined, or ignored based on the existing perspective within the framework already established.

Hence, the value of spiritual experiences over religious dogma and thinking.

[Duke Wellington]

I was thinking about this (sort of) the other day.

If going to Heaven is life everlasting. Then what is eternal punishment? You have to be alive to be punished right? So that too is eternal life. Weird.

Whether there is eternal punishment or not really does not matter. It is the Belief in the punishment that matters. Those that do not believe in afterlife punishment are Free to do what they will. Those who do believe in afterlife punishment, are "encouraged", just as with secular laws, to act "Good". Follow the laws and you have no consequences.

Myself, if no one gets eternally punished, but there is still Heaven, then I'll simply not go hang out with Adolf Hitler and Charlie Manson, I'll circle up with my like minded friends and family.

Do thoughts cause time?

Well if you think about it you cant seperate the two because the passage of time can only be known with thoughts. A sequence of thoughts is how we know timeflow - one thought relative to another. How would you go about proving it with evidence? I dont know if we currently can but I know when I was in a car crash a few years back I experienced time running in slow motion. I think in that hightened state of mind there was more thinking per second going on.

So if we make time, with time being caused by a sequence of thoughts occuring in our minds, what power would a God have to sentence you to eternal damnation?

[Opus Magnus]

Jesus did come and He did fulfill the Laws. And fulfill means finished. The Laws of Moses were finished and did not apply anymore. A new Law and new Commandments were put forward by Jesus. Jesus showed that the laws no longer applied. As an example, he challenged the Pharisees by healing people on the Sabbath even though the Pharisees warned him that it would be against the law.

http://dictionary.re.../browse/fulfill

I've never heard of a Christian doctrine where Jesus only "minor changes" the Laws of Moses. Though there are plenty of fundamentalist Christians who pick and chose from among the almost thousand laws.

The abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel still has to be completely fulfilled, and Revelations.

[quiXilver]

not only that... I haven't fulfilled the trimming of the verge... so...

[Grandpa Greenman]

I really don't know what all this Bible talk has to do with sorcery? Most people who practice sorcery aren't really worried about what the Bible says about it. If it worries you, then you shouldn't be doing sorcery or witchcraft or dancing round the fire,under the full moon calling down the Gods, Goddesses, earth, Universe or whatever. Stay in the house and read your book.

[quiXilver]

is someone worried?

*looks around*

[Grandpa Greenman]

[XenoFish]

I would say NO, because it depends on what you are seeking. If someone desires to murder children, then it is better that they do nothing.

It's always best to believe in yourself and strive for what you desire, than to doubt and do nothing. So long as it's within the boundaries of legality, sanity, and morality.

How that for a correction? Guess I should complete my thoughts more often when I post. lol

[+DieChecker]

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It's always best to believe in yourself and strive for what you desire, than to doubt and do nothing. So long as it's within the boundaries of legality, sanity, and morality.

How that for a correction? Guess I should complete my thoughts more often when I post. lol

Much more refined.

[+DieChecker]

Do thoughts cause time?

No.

We experience the sensation of time, but each moment leads into the next regardless of if humans are here or not.

If all humans were killed, or all fell asleep at the same time, the world would not stop spinning, the plants would not stop growing and the rain would not stop falling.

[XenoFish]

"I don't always complete my thought before posting, but when I do they make a lot more sense."

[Jeanne dArc]

RabidMongoose, you never responded to my last post, at the bottom of page 4 of this thread I'm sure you have some attempted rebuttal to make, haha Since apparently I can't be right unless I accept your (demonstrably false) premises.

[Duke Wellington]

No.

We experience the sensation of time, but each moment leads into the next regardless of if humans are here or not.

If all humans were killed, or all fell asleep at the same time, the world would not stop spinning, the plants would not stop growing and the rain would not stop falling.

Some people do have the opinion that its wrong. But its important to remember that science has no formal stance on what causes time. They cant even reach agreement over whether the past and future currently exist or not. Its still up for grabs.

Some think its a dimension of space, some think its a mental construct, some think only now exists, there is no concensus. Its important to remember that intellectuals stances are coloured by their own assumptions and biases. Therefore we must remember to be criticial of their stances including ones we might not want to criticise because of our own biases.

RabidMongoose, you never responded to my last post, at the bottom of page 4 of this thread I'm sure you have some attempted rebuttal to make, haha Since apparently I can't be right unless I accept your (demonstrably false) premises.

No, I stopped bothering with you. I'm not here to focus specifically on you and if you dont want to consider other views I'll leave you to your own.

Edited July 31, 2014 by RabidMongoose

[GoldenWolf]

http://youtu.be/esEcwAWi6dk

[Jeanne dArc]

No, I stopped bothering with you. I'm not here to focus specifically on you and if you dont want to consider other views I'll leave you to your own.

But to just drop a conversation without response like that was a bit rude, is all I'm saying

I'm perfectly fine considering other views, and I've considered your views, it's just your justifications for them (or, shall I say, lack of justifications) do not persuade me. That's hardly my fault. It appears I simply have a higher standard of reason than you do. Not meaning to be nasty by that, just telling it as I see it.

[+DieChecker]

Some people do have the opinion that its wrong. But its important to remember that science has no formal stance on what causes time. They cant even reach agreement over whether the past and future currently exist or not. Its still up for grabs.

Some think its a dimension of space, some think its a mental construct, some think only now exists, there is no concensus. Its important to remember that intellectuals stances are coloured by their own assumptions and biases. Therefore we must remember to be criticial of their stances including ones we might not want to criticise because of our own biases.

There is no future. There is only the past and now. The future has so many variables it cannot be known.

The past exists, because we have evidence of it. Fossils for one thing.

I would agree that it is totally possible that there is only Now, and everything we think we know is illusion. We could be a simulation. We could a be part of a multiprocessing dream of a being composed of only energy. There are a lot of possibilities, but most are impossible to prove to any real degree.

[Duke Wellington]

There is no future. There is only the past and now. The future has so many variables it cannot be known.

The past exists, because we have evidence of it. Fossils for one thing.

I would agree that it is totally possible that there is only Now, and everything we think we know is illusion. We could be a simulation. We could a be part of a multiprocessing dream of a being composed of only energy. There are a lot of possibilities, but most are impossible to prove to any real degree.

There is no scientific evidence that yesterday still exists or that tomorrow already exists. The determinists like to believe that they do but the non-determinists can use the way atoms work to make the case that they don't. Atoms don't work off cause and effect relationships but off probabilities. That means the atom has no specific past or future until measured. Instead there is just a probability of each past having occured and each future that could occur.

May I reccommend watching Alive In Wonderland. As a child it appears to just be a cartoon. When you started being exposed to physics and philosophy you realise its full to the brim of deeper meanings.

[Crabby Kitten]

Someone like Derren Brown and David Copperfield are sorcerers, they practice illusions and mind games.

[Blood_Sacrifice]

While I find the idea of "witchcraft" / "sorcery" very interesting, I do think there is just as much evidence in its favor as there are when it comes to any other religions.