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Scientist Fired After Controversial Discovery

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LOS ANGELES (CBSLA.com) — Attorneys for a California State University, Northridge scientist who was terminated from his job after discovering soft tissue on a triceratops fossil have filed a lawsuit against the university.

While at the Hell Creek Formation excavation site in Montana, researcher Mark Armitage discovered what he believed to be the largest triceratops horn ever unearthed at the site, according to attorney Brad Dacus of Pacific Justice Institute.

Upon examination of the horn under a high-powered microscope back at CSUN, Dacus says Armitage was “fascinated” to find soft tissue on the sample – a discovery Bacus said stunned members of the school’s biology department and even some students “because it indicates that dinosaurs roamed the earth only thousands of years in the past rather than going extinct 60 million years ago.”

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2014/07/24/scientist-alleges-csun-fired-him-for-discovery-of-soft-tissue-on-dinosaur-fossil/

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Is this story manufactured?

Because it's NOT unknown for collaginous material to be found in dinosaur bone. Furthermore, from the article, "CSUN spokesperson Carmen Ramos Chandler told CBSLA Armitage was a a temporary hire between 2010-2013 and worked as an electron microscopy technician. She could not comment on the lawsuit as university officials had not yet received the complaint."

The more I see of Armitage's work, the less I think he knows about paleontology.

I suspect he's a Creationist, looking for scandal.

...and a good payday!! :yes:

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Is this story manufactured?

Because it's NOT unknown for collaginous material to be found in dinosaur bone. Furthermore, from the article, "CSUN spokesperson Carmen Ramos Chandler told CBSLA Armitage was a a temporary hire between 2010-2013 and worked as an electron microscopy technician. She could not comment on the lawsuit as university officials had not yet received the complaint."

The more I see of Armitage's work, the less I think he knows about paleontology.

I suspect he's a Creationist, looking for scandal.

Well, to this day we have not found a dino bone, only fossilization of dino bones (which happens not to be exactly the same). So the most likely answer is that it might not be fabricated but the story boolcrappy. Not surprising as Mr. Armitage is one of the "scientists" supporting young age creationism. Which can only have one explanation: He is too dense to have understand the science he studied or he passed exams by bringing hams to the professor.

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Armitrage is a creationist. He recieved his master's degree from the ICR, the Institute for Creation Research.

http://creationwiki.org/Mark_Armitage

The article claims he is a published scientist. He has published in the creationist journals. Those are fake journals. He did publish in Bulletin of the Southern California Academy of Sciences. The dates for those publications overlap the dates for his publications in the fake journals.

The article claims he published his results in a real journal. He did.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0065128113000020

Acta Histochemica

"Soft sheets of fibrillar bone from a fossil of the supraorbital horn of the dinosaur Triceratops horridus"

The coauthor of the paper is Kevin Lee Anderson from the Department of Biology, Arkansas State University Beebe, Beebe, AR, USA.

The coauthor is also identified as a creationist in this blog

http://kgov.com/triceratops

Armitage, a Creation Research Society board member and microscopy expert, along with iDINO microbiologist Dr. Kevin Anderson, excavated a Triceratops horn from the Hell Creek Formation in Montana.

My guess is is just another baloney fairy tale such as those int he movie Expelled where the complainers ever were employees and complained about being fired when in fact short term contracts expired. They wanted exposure for their beliefs so they concocted fairy tales about being persecuted for this religious beliefs.

It's another pathetic attempt by creationists to deceive the public. To make this a religious arguments seems to me that they are deceivers, i.e. agents of the devil.

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Well, to this day we have not found a dino bone, only fossilization of dino bones (which happens not to be exactly the same). So the most likely answer is that it might not be fabricated but the story boolcrappy. Not surprising as Mr. Armitage is one of the "scientists" supporting young age creationism. Which can only have one explanation: He is too dense to have understand the science he studied or he passed exams by bringing hams to the professor.

Wait, it's my understanding that this is a fully sanctioned academic practice. Let us not excoriate those who engage in this fine tradition.

--Jaylemurph

(FULL DISCLOSURE: I bake made-from-scratch chocolate peanut-butter cookies for my students on evaluation day in fairly blatant attempts to secure positive notes.)

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Armitrage is a creationist. He recieved his master's degree from the ICR, the Institute for Creation Research.

http://creationwiki.org/Mark_Armitage

...so he really doesn't have an MA.

--Jaylemurph

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LOS ANGELES (CBSLA.com) — Attorneys for a California State University, Northridge scientist who was terminated from his job after discovering soft tissue on a triceratops fossil have filed a lawsuit against the university.

While at the Hell Creek Formation excavation site in Montana, researcher Mark Armitage discovered what he believed to be the largest triceratops horn ever unearthed at the site, according to attorney Brad Dacus of Pacific Justice Institute.

Upon examination of the horn under a high-powered microscope back at CSUN, Dacus says Armitage was "fascinated" to find soft tissue on the sample – a discovery Bacus said stunned members of the school's biology department and even some students "because it indicates that dinosaurs roamed the earth only thousands of years in the past rather than going extinct 60 million years ago."

http://losangeles.cb...inosaur-fossil/

The first observations of the preservation of dinosaur soft tissue were initially presented by Mary Schweitzer nearly ten years ago. Subsequent research has since determined the nature of this preservation via the effects of iron nanoparticles. The following two lay-oriented articles should provide reasonable understandings. The comments of Schweitzer in regards to the YEC contingent, particularly given her personal background, are worthy of note.

http://www.smithsoni...cker-115306469/

http://www.livescien...oft-tissue.html

.

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Well, It ain't a lie. The scientist was fired after a controversial discovery.

That discovery being that she was attempting to subvert actual science for creationist woo woo.

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Posted (edited)

Though to be fair, did they not find tiny amounts of non-fossilized tissue within the leg bone of a T-Rex several years back? I remember there being an article or two about it, but it's bloody hard to find now (no pun intended) with all the creationist "stuff" online flooding search results.

Edited by Bavarian Raven

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The problem for creationists is the age of the Earth, well besides the fact that genesis has 2 different creation tales with different orders of creation neither of which match the actual order of the evolution of life on Earth. Whenever possible creationists attack dating methods which show them to be wrong.

The case here is rather simple. The end of a contract is not related to the article unless the 2 authors purposely tried to publish their article at the time that the contract was due to end.

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Though to be fair, did they not find tiny amounts of non-fossilized tissue within the leg bone of a T-Rex several years back? I remember there being an article or two about it, but it's bloody hard to find now (no pun intended) with all the creationist "stuff" online flooding search results.

Kindly read the references provided above (Swede #8).

.

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Wait, it's my understanding that this is a fully sanctioned academic practice. Let us not excoriate those who engage in this fine tradition.

--Jaylemurph

I say that giving the Food of the Gods (ham) to humans is blasphemy.

Harte

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The first observations of the preservation of dinosaur soft tissue were initially presented by Mary Schweitzer nearly ten years ago. Subsequent research has since determined the nature of this preservation via the effects of iron nanoparticles. The following two lay-oriented articles should provide reasonable understandings. The comments of Schweitzer in regards to the YEC contingent, particularly given her personal background, are worthy of note.

http://www.smithsoni...cker-115306469/

http://www.livescien...oft-tissue.html

.

Thanks for the references Swede. I learned much.

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Stereologist,

If creationists knew how old I am they would have a problem explaining why I;m still here. :tsu:

jmccr8

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Thanks for the references Swede. I learned much.

Hi Merc. You are quite welcome. Pleased to assist.

.

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Is this true?

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Posted (edited)

Is this true?

Yes and No. He did not discover soft (living) tissue. No he does not have an advanced degree in Scanning Electron Microscopy or any other discipline. Yes, he was a short - term hire technician, whose contract was due to expire when he "published" his findings. Yes, he is an avowed Creationist (the world is only 4400 years old) - so should be absolutely littered with dinosaur fragments, and soft tissues preserved in permafrost. Yes, the entire world should be covered in Dinosaur excrement because 4400 years obviously means that Plate Tectonics do not exist either (even though plate separation, subduction is easily measured) therefore the entire world 4400 years ago is exactly in the same configuration as today - which would be correct. The Mid Atlantic ridge does not exist. Stonehenge cannot possibly exist (unless God said "let there be Stonehenge") etc etc etc

Just IMO of course :unsure2::whistle::innocent:

Edited by keithisco
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LOS ANGELES (CBSLA.com) Attorneys for a California State University, Northridge scientist who was terminated from his job after discovering soft tissue on a triceratops fossil have filed a lawsuit against the university.

While at the Hell Creek Formation excavation site in Montana, researcher Mark Armitage discovered what he believed to be the largest triceratops horn ever unearthed at the site, according to attorney Brad Dacus of Pacific Justice Institute.

Upon examination of the horn under a high-powered microscope back at CSUN, Dacus says Armitage was "fascinated" to find soft tissue on the sample a discovery Bacus said stunned members of the school's biology department and even some students "because it indicates that dinosaurs roamed the earth only thousands of years in the past rather than going extinct 60 million years ago."

http://losangeles.cb...inosaur-fossil/

Theres nothing wrong with finding soft tissue on a carcass millions of years old. It depends what conditions the skeleton existed under as to whether any flesh survives. I think you'll find he's been sacked for jumping to the conclusion the dinosaur must be a few thousand years old. It would conflict with carbon dating, the age of the rocks the skeleton is buried in and evolution.

Arriving at a conclusion of a few thousand years old without significant evidence and resolving the conflicts such as carbon dating means he rightfully should be sacked. He is letting his personal hopes cloud his research and judgement.

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The problem for creationists is the age of the Earth,

The problem for young earth creationists is consilience. The fact that multiple branches of science independently converge on a story of the history of the universe, our solar system, our planet and the evolution of life on that planet that is overall coherent and consistent when you look at the big picture and about as contrary to their claims as it is possible to be.
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The problem for young earth creationists is consilience. The fact that multiple branches of science independently converge on a story of the history of the universe, our solar system, our planet and the evolution of life on that planet that is overall coherent and consistent when you look at the big picture and about as contrary to their claims as it is possible to be.

I guess that is the problem when you let your research be guided by your faith instead of dissociating the two and keeping water tight bulk heads. The agenda becomes embarrassingly obvious.

Cheers,

Badeskov

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Posted (edited)

Is this story manufactured?

Because it's NOT unknown for collaginous material to be found in dinosaur bone. Furthermore, from the article, "CSUN spokesperson Carmen Ramos Chandler told CBSLA Armitage was a a temporary hire between 2010-2013 and worked as an electron microscopy technician. She could not comment on the lawsuit as university officials had not yet received the complaint."

The more I see of Armitage's work, the less I think he knows about paleontology.

I suspect he's a Creationist, looking for scandal.

Agreed. He's not a scientist, he's not a faculty member, he's not a researcher. He's a technician and a temporary one at that.

I'm also curious as to why so much of the story reads like a press release from Answers in Genesis?

Edited by Rafterman
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The problem for young earth creationists is consilience. The fact that multiple branches of science independently converge on a story of the history of the universe, our solar system, our planet and the evolution of life on that planet that is overall coherent and consistent when you look at the big picture and about as contrary to their claims as it is possible to be.

That's a strong point. Ken Ham and his ilk are always taking shots at evolution, but evolution is just one piece of the puzzle that points to the age of the earth. You pretty much have to set aside the entire of scientific discovery in pretty much every field to swallow the young earth creationist poppy c***.

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Though to be fair, did they not find tiny amounts of non-fossilized tissue within the leg bone of a T-Rex several years back? I remember there being an article or two about it, but it's bloody hard to find now (no pun intended) with all the creationist "stuff" online flooding search results.

I found this article on National Geographic:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/04/080424-trex-mastodon.html

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Posted (edited)

That's a strong point. Ken Ham and his ilk are always taking shots at evolution, but evolution is just one piece of the puzzle that points to the age of the earth. You pretty much have to set aside the entire of scientific discovery in pretty much every field to swallow the young earth creationist poppy c***.

Which is what they attempt to do. Creationists are always ragging on about not only is evolution impossible, but that the various dating methods used in science are fundamentally flawed, that the grand canyon could have been carved out very quickly by a strong enough flow of water, that the universe was created with the light from distant stars and galaxies already almost here which is why it only looks like it took the light hundreds of thousands or millions of years to get here. Etc. etc.

They'll have a go at anything in modern science that confirms the fact that the universe is millions of times older than they say it is. I sometimes wonder if genuinely they believe their own BS so ludicrous it is at times.

Edited by JesseCuster
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