How Do We Save Ufology?

[Sweetpumper]

All I know is, I'll do a *rolleyes* when someone like Birnes asks a dude if he thinks he's an alien hybrid five minutes after meeting him.

[AbyssWalker]

I guess you're talking about that TV show ufo hunters, but i didn't get to watch too many episodes.

Anyways, if ufology deals only with hard science, that's a good thing, but most people don't or can't seperate ufos from ET,

And there are people who may call themselves ufologists or imply they are in anyway by focusing only on the ridiculous, sensationional stuff are taking ufology's spotlight in my opinion.

Even if something has nothing to do with ufology, doesn't mean it can't harm ufology, and since the topic is, how ufology can be saved ,

I don't think it needs saving, it needs fixing, maybe ufologists can start denouncing the stuff taking its spotlight, and distancing itself from it.

[Sweetpumper]

I agree, it doesn't need saving. What it needs is something they can get their hands on that scientists can study. Then everyone in the science field could become ufologists.

[CuriousRey]

I agree, it doesn't need saving. What it needs is something they can get their hands on that scientists can study. Then everyone in the science field could become ufologists.

Tangible evidence would most certainly be the turning point, until that day we will all continue with our speculation, some more reasonable than others.

[sinewave]

So why then would they be interested in Hessdalen?

edit to add: Ufologist is not a good term as it is ET they are interested in as per your definition.

They have an affinity for mysterious lights in the sky. Kinda fits their MO.

To be fair, they are not interested in ET. They are interested in justifying their outrage with the governments and governmental agencies. It is more about trust issues and problems with authority than about learning and understanding.

[sinewave]

All I know is, I'll do a *rolleyes* when someone like Birnes asks a dude if he thinks he's an alien hybrid five minutes after meeting him.

Absolutely. I feel the same way.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Because it's easy to bash the "Loons" and know you can't be wrong, rather that focus on the subject. If you'll go back and look, right in the middle of the Lazar thread, someone dropped a bomb about their incredible sighting, it was detailed in its description, had official reports (if I remember correctly), multiple witnesses, etc., everything you'd could ever possibly want, other than video.

Guess what the Skunkers reaction was to it? Nothing. Not one reaction to it because they knew they couldn't tell him he was wrong. Not even a question out of curiosity. It's simply not what they're here for.

It's much easier to bash and pile on a guy selling scientific equipment out of a strip mall somewhere in Michigan.

If it's the post I'm thinking of, I asked a few questions and got no answer from the poster who just repeated their claims.

But I'm not going anywhere near that thread, it got how many people banned? Inflamed how much tension here? It's better dead and buried.

[badeskov]

If it's the post I'm thinking of, I asked a few questions and got no answer from the poster who just repeated their claims.

But I'm not going anywhere near that thread, it got how many people banned? Inflamed how much tension here? It's better dead and buried.

I like the way you put it. But then again, to quote the famous Brit Special Air Services: "Who Dares Wins".

That said, I remember said alleged report and questions being asked, yet no replies.

Cheers,

Badeskov

Edited July 31, 2014 by badeskov

[badeskov]

I agree, it doesn't need saving. What it needs is something they can get their hands on that scientists can study. Then everyone in the science field could become ufologists.

No, I respectfully disagree. They would still be scientists. If they actually managed to get something tangible on their hands, they would still be astronomers (who constantly look into the Universe for life and all kinds of other stuff), meteorologist (constantly learning about our atmosphere), atmospheric physicists (constantly learning about what is happening in our atmosphere) and so on. Those would be the people. Not the crackpots who constitute the laughable field of UFOlogy. UFOlogy, in my honest opinion, has become the label for those disregarding science and prostituting themselves to sell anything from books to their own self esteem based on...well, as history show, deceptions and misconstruing facts. And the latter is a fact.

Cheers,

Badeskov

Edited July 31, 2014 by badeskov

[DONTEATUS]

I know a way we can Save all the UFOlogy`s We get with Elon Musk , And build a Mother ship and send -em-all the the New Planet they found a 200 light years out there ! But lets not forget the B-Ship also, ITs going to have all the Lawyers,bean counters,and Phone sanitizers on it ! Douglas Adams will be proud of us indeed !

[stevemagegod]

If people can get paid to actively research UFOlogy then we may discover something. But until then it will only be a Hobby for most people.

[badeskov]

If people can get paid to actively research UFOlogy then we may discover something. But until then it will only be a Hobby for most people.

People are being paid every day. They are called astronomers, physicists, meteorologists, psychologists etc. Every single day they are looking into the unexplained phenomena happening in our atmosphere and for those reading scientific articles, they are learning new stuff every single day. Sadly, those which the term UFOlogy describes best, have no such interest but rather wants to embellish and promote themselves.

Cheers,

Badeskov

[ufoscan]

I think that "ufology" can appear differently depending on one's personal experience of it.

Again speaking from my own experience: Right from the start - when I got my first UFO book at age 8 - I immediately started to question some aspects of it. Even thought I believed in the possibility of UFOs being extraterrestrial and visiting Earth, I looked at the pictures in the book and some of them definitely looked "wrong". So I wondered if people were faking photographs. Then at age 12 I watched a documentary series on UFOs that was taking a very serious investigative approach to the subject and they showed cases of UFO trickery. At 13, I did my own photography tests using models to see how it could be done. When I joined a local UFO group a month later, they also had a very serious approach to the subject and again did not get overly enthusiastic about UFO pictures, believing many to be faked.

So my experience of ufology was quite different from what we see today in that my own approach to it as well as the people I met at the time was to try to understand what was going on while being fully aware that there were many hoaxes as well as rational explanations to some of the genuine cases.

But I also had my own sightings - so I had firsthand experience as to how this unknown aerial phenomenon behaved. And, at that point, I was quite well armed and ready to dismiss what I saw with great efficiency. But I could not.

So whatever happens to ufology today doesn't really change anything in regards what I and others have experienced and will probably continue to experience. I have done my best to try and find rational down-to-earth explanations for what I and others that I have met have seen, but I have not succeeded. And nobody here has ever come up with a logical explanation as to what I may have seen. So, from my personal perspective, it remains a mystery.

[quillius]

They have an affinity for mysterious lights in the sky. Kinda fits their MO.

To be fair, they are not interested in ET. They are interested in justifying their outrage with the governments and governmental agencies. It is more about trust issues and problems with authority than about learning and understanding.

To be honest I wouldn't then class them as Ufologists. I personally would define the term as someone with a keen interest in understanding the phenomenon(s) that have been reported in our skies for quite a while. I just don't see why anyone with outrage at governments would choose 'them hiding ET' as the most effective means of attack.

I guess this is why I thought it prudent to try and define who it was you meant when discussing 'Ufologists'.

[itsnotoutthere]

If people can get paid to actively research UFOlogy then we may discover something. But until then it will only be a Hobby for most people.

Ufology is the modern equivilant of the Cottingley Fairies phenomenon. The idea that humanoid like aliens are jumping into tiny spaceships & traversing the vast distances of the universe to nose around for a few hours then zooming off again is a complete joke. If alien life is to be found, these are the ones who will find it. :-

http://science.nasa....mar_goldilocks/

Edited July 31, 2014 by itsnotoutthere

[lost_shaman]

Too bad you ignored the opportunity to reference any of these scientific efforts.

My goal was not to create a comprehensive list of Scientific efforts, but rather to point out that the people claiming there is no Science involved are either unaware of those efforts or simply ignoring them.

I would like to suspect the former, but if the latter is true its an intellectual dishonesty.

It serves no purpose for me to provide any List if Im curious to see who knows what they are talking about and who doesn't, and who is being intellectually dishonest.

[Harte]

I agree SP, although the people you refer to would seem to be classed as researchers rather than UFologists as per the definition by Sinewave. The people you call Ufologists would accept the outcome of secret Military tech, the Ufologists Sinewave refers to would not as they think its ET and only ET will suffice.

If a group embraces the loons, they have to live with the consequences.

The fact is, there is no ufology without the crazies.

edit: which is why I asked the original question, I don't understand why there is a persistent bashing of people that have no relevance to the subject at hand.

So rather than waste time attacking the so called loons (which seems a pointless task) why not focus on the subject

I can't speak for others, but I do it for no other reason than it's funny. I don't consider it a "task." Nor am I constantly about the business of cracking wise about idiots like Meier. But he is funny. And it's hilarious to me that even a single person can believe him even for an instant.

It's not as if posters on a forum are going to "save" ufology.

Harte

[quillius]

If a group embraces the loons, they have to live with the consequences.

The fact is, there is no ufology without the crazies.

what group Harte? who is embracing who?

I also disagree, I think Ufology is the study of a phenomenon (s) that is seen in our skys.....what the loons think or what people think the answer is, is irrelevant in my opinion. Accepting there are unknowns is the starting point IMO. Although I know Aquatus made some valid points with regards to defining what the phenomenon looks like and I have pondered this since.

I can't speak for others, but I do it for no other reason than it's funny. I don't consider it a "task." Nor am I constantly about the business of cracking wise about idiots like Meier. But he is funny. And it's hilarious to me that even a single person can believe him even for an instant.

It's not as if posters on a forum are going to "save" ufology.

Harte

I dont really understand the 'saving Ufology' part. Basically I see there are loons that believe everything, there are those that have paranoia issues and see conspiracy in everything and there are those that either first hand or through research have concluded there is an unknown phenomenon (s) at play in our skies and they search for an answer as to what this may be. The last named is who I consider as Ufology and I don't see that these people need saving (maybe they need saving from undeserved ridicule....or associations that are unjust)

[quillius]

Ufology is the modern equivilant of the Cottingley Fairies phenomenon. The idea that humanoid like aliens are jumping into tiny spaceships & traversing the vast distances of the universe to nose around for a few hours then zooming off again is a complete joke. If alien life is to be found, these are the ones who will find it. :-

http://science.nasa....mar_goldilocks/

not at all. This is the problem (unjust associations).

Hessdalen itself proves this is an incorrect link. Fairies do not exist. Unknown phenomenons do.

[Harte]

what group Harte? who is embracing who?

I also disagree, I think Ufology is the study of a phenomenon (s) that is seen in our skys.....what the loons think or what people think the answer is, is irrelevant in my opinion. Accepting there are unknowns is the starting point IMO. Although I know Aquatus made some valid points with regards to defining what the phenomenon looks like and I have pondered this since.

My point is there is no field of "ufology."

Phenomena are observed and studied by scientists - there's no "science" of ufology.

If you want an example of a gruop that has embraced loons, you need look no further than MUFON.

I dont really understand the 'saving Ufology' part. Basically I see there are loons that believe everything, there are those that have paranoia issues and see conspiracy in everything and there are those that either first hand or through research have concluded there is an unknown phenomenon (s) at play in our skies and they search for an answer as to what this may be. The last named is who I consider as Ufology and I don't see that these people need saving (maybe they need saving from undeserved ridicule....or associations that are unjust)

The first two, I make fun of for my own amusement.

The third group (assuming they exist) should get themselves a new name. They certainly need saving from the loons.

Harte

[Lysippos]

The problem with ufology is that it is in a state of self denial.

.

Ufology hasn't as a field moved in the last 60 years. Its been "dead" for years.

[quillius]

My point is there is no field of "ufology."

Phenomena are observed and studied by scientists - there's no "science" of ufology.

If you want an example of a gruop that has embraced loons, you need look no further than MUFON.

The first two, I make fun of for my own amusement.

The third group (assuming they exist) should get themselves a new name. They certainly need saving from the loons.

Harte

ok thanks. I am quite confident the third group exists...many people here on UM are in that group IMO.

[aquatus1]

My goal was not to create a comprehensive list of Scientific efforts, but rather to point out that the people claiming there is no Science involved are either unaware of those efforts or simply ignoring them.

And mine was to point out that a claim that evidence exists is nothing more than the same words we hear over and over again. Claiming something exists doesn't get you anywhere. It doesn't even get you any credibility. Heck, say it enough times without providing anything to back it up, such as ufology does, and you end up loosing credibility instead.

I would like to suspect the former, but if the latter is true its an intellectual dishonesty.

Alternatively, if the claim itself is true, we come to the actual point a lot of people have been making: That all we get is insistence that ufology is valid, and nothing much else in regards to support.

It serves no purpose for me to provide any List if Im curious to see who knows what they are talking about and who doesn't, and who is being intellectually dishonest.

Fine with me. I'll just go ahead and put you in the *confident smirk, but no actual contribution* corner.

[lost_shaman]

If a group embraces the loons, they have to live with the consequences.

The fact is, there is no ufology without the crazies.[/Quote]

So you make no distinction between people who are "crazy" and those who give reports of rare events?

It is unfortunate but many schzophrenics believe Aliens control their minds. I agree those people have a serious problem.

Do we all really have to ignore Nature just because some people have a propensity to be "crazy"?

I can't speak for others, but I do it for no other reason than it's funny. I don't consider it a "task." Nor am I constantly about the business of cracking wise about idiots like Meier. But he is funny. And it's hilarious to me that even a single person can believe him even for an instant.

It's not as if posters on a forum are going to "save" ufology.

Harte

Who believes Meier? In 12 years I've only encountered Michael Horn who truely believes and maybe just a handful of posters who read something and mentioned him! Now you are one of them!

[aquatus1]

The third group (assuming they exist) should get themselves a new name. They certainly need saving from the loons.

Harte

Agreed. The very name is self-defeating as a science. Unfortunately, until there is...at least a direction, maybe? I'm trying to to think of the least restrictive that could validly be called a science...