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Still Waters

Israel and Hamas agree humanitarian truce

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Israel and Hamas have agreed to an unconditional 72-hour humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza from 08:00 (05:00 GMT) on Friday, the US and UN say.

Since Israel began its offensive in Gaza on 8 July, 1,422 Palestinians have been killed, most of them civilians, according to Gaza's health ministry.

Fifty-six Israeli soldiers and two civilians have also died.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/28596609

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Let's see how long this lasts....

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Bets on Hamas breaking this truce before the 72 hrs are up?

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Bets on Hamas breaking this truce before the 72 hrs are up?

Definitely... either by rocket fire or suicide bomber. Take your pick, that is what is going to happen.

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Posted (edited)

Bets on Hamas breaking this truce before the 72 hrs are up?

Definitely... either by rocket fire or suicide bomber. Take your pick, that is what is going to happen.

You both realise that quite a few fighting the Israeli's are not Hamas-affiliated, don't you?

I mean, I know it's convenient to blame Hamas for all the attack on Israel, and there's no denying that the majority are probably Hamas sanctioned, but it ignores the reality on the ground.

For example, the kidnapping and murder of the 3 Israeli's that kick-started all this was allegedly by a group over which Hamas has no direct control - but Hamas (and all the other Palestinians) are still to blame, right?

Edited by Leonardo
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Posted (edited)

You both realise that quite a few fighting the Israeli's are not Hamas-affiliated, don't you?

I mean, I know it's convenient to blame Hamas for all the attack on Israel, and there's no denying that the majority are probably Hamas sanctioned, but it ignores the reality on the ground.

If Hamas allow other Terrorist organizations to operate out of Gaza, they are responsible for the attacks sent in the directions of Israel. Majority of the time, it is an joint effort between Terrorist organizations to attack an single target with overwhelming numbers, even though it doesn't do much against an much more advance army. In other words, control the organizations in Gaza, it is their duty to make sure they uphold their end of the truce.

Edited by Uncle Sam
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If Hamas allow other Terrorist organizations to operate out of Gaza, they are responsible for the attacks sent in the directions of Israel.

Are Hamas the legitimate govt authority in Gaza then? Because many of those supporting Israel have claimed otherwise.

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Posted (edited)

Are Hamas the legitimate govt authority in Gaza then? Because many of those supporting Israel have claimed otherwise.

They are actually illegitimate government, run by them and their military wing consist of them. Even if they are illegitimate, an truce can be declared between an legitimate government and illegitimate government, they are responsible for any attack that comes out of Gaza even if it is another organization. And Legitimate government is an government recognized by the world. Fatah's that operate the west bank are considered legitimate because they are actually dealing with Israel, denounce their goal of wiping Israel out, and made peace with Israel. West Bank and Israel do trade, grow in prosperity, it is one of those rare moments when an Terrorist organization actually become an legitimate government because they decide hey, we want peace and decided to get along.

Edited by Uncle Sam

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Are Hamas the legitimate govt authority in Gaza then? Because many of those supporting Israel have claimed otherwise.

re underlined...

you will have to back that up with quotes....

because your bias might be making you remember things wrongly...

.

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Posted (edited)

re underlined...

you will have to back that up with quotes....

because your bias might be making you remember things wrongly...

.

RoofGardener...here. According to him, Gaza is under "military occupation by HAMAS". A military occupier is not a legitimate govt.

RavenHawk...here. According to RH, all of non-Israel 'Mandated Palestine' is 'unorganised territory'.

...and you, Bee, here. According to you, by what you quote, Hamas does not represent the people of Palestine, but rules them via terror. Not the actions of a legitimate govt.

I could probably dig up more if needs be, but this will do for starters.

...and be careful when you throw around claims of bias, they might just come back to bite you.

Edited by Leonardo
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Nothing is more humane than putting off the death and misery of another group of human beings for a limited amount of time.

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I'm Palestinian, My Roommate is Jewish:

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You both realise that quite a few fighting the Israeli's are not Hamas-affiliated, don't you?

I mean, I know it's convenient to blame Hamas for all the attack on Israel, and there's no denying that the majority are probably Hamas sanctioned, but it ignores the reality on the ground.

For example, the kidnapping and murder of the 3 Israeli's that kick-started all this was allegedly by a group over which Hamas has no direct control - but Hamas (and all the other Palestinians) are still to blame, right?

Hamas publicly calls for such behaviors as part of the "resistance". If I call for the death or kidnapping of others and then it happens then yeah... I have some culpability. Can't have it both ways Leo. If they feel it's a justified means of resistance then at least own it when it gets used.

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Hamas publicly calls for such behaviors as part of the "resistance". If I call for the death or kidnapping of others and then it happens then yeah... I have some culpability. Can't have it both ways Leo. If they feel it's a justified means of resistance then at least own it when it gets used.

I hope you remember that when you justify Israel's actions, despite their claims of liberality, democracy, freedom, peace, etc.

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I seriously hope that this will hold, but yeah, the odds are that Hamas will do something foolish

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Perhaps we should have a ceasefire in this forum as well ?

Lets see if Yamato can go for a whole 72 hours without using the words "Zionis", "Criminal", "Apartheid" or "Regime". :P

In return, I'll avoid mentioning Llanfair­pwllgwyn­gyllgo­gery­chwyrn­drobwll­llanty­silio­gogo­goch.

Seems like a fair exchange ?

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Perhaps we should have a ceasefire in this forum as well ?

Lets see if Yamato can go for a whole 72 hours without using the words "Zionis", "Criminal", "Apartheid" or "Regime". :P

In return, I'll avoid mentioning Llanfair­pwllgwyn­gyllgo­gery­chwyrn­drobwll­llanty­silio­gogo­goch.

Seems like a fair exchange ?

How about this, every time you want to say Israel you have to say Likud, and every time you want to say Hamas, you have to say Gaza. But using nouns like "Likud" and "Gaza" would give people the wrong impression that the poor Palestinian people are fighting against the Israeli government and we don't want anyone to get that idea.

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Less than 3 hours. And They actually DID use a suicide bomber to capture an Israeli officer. Now the REAL hellishness will begin.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/israel-hamas-agree-to-72-hour-humanitarian-cease-fire/2014/08/01/059f1ff8-194e-11e4-9e3b-7f2f110c6265_story.html

Let's hear some more about these noble freedom fighters, shall we?

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Posted (edited)

Less than 3 hours. And They actually DID use a suicide bomber to capture an Israeli officer. Now the REAL hellishness will begin.

http://www.washingto...6265_story.html

Let's hear some more about these noble freedom fighters, shall we?

From reports I have read, it is indeterminate who broke the truce. Sources sympathetic to Israel will naturally claim it was the Palestinians, while sources sympathetic to the Palestinians will naturally claim it was the Israelis.

Likewise, conflicting reports surround the apparent capture of the Israeli soldier and whether that act was responsible for breaking the truce. Early reports from Israeli sources suggested their resumed shelling of Gaza was in response to rocket attacks - not to a gun-fight between IDF and Hamas ground units.

So, if they are retracting the "rocket attack" story and now using the "captured soldier" story, a question has to be asked whether the shelling by the IDF resumed before or after that capturing occurred?

Edited by Leonardo
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Capturing these butchers alive is a hundred times more valuable than killing them. That's the way to bring the balance back. A few more "kidnapped" Israeli soldiers and it will be the force multiplier Gaza needs to end this madness.

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Posted (edited)

Kidnapped during a cease fire ?

And it wasn't just one kidnapped soldier... two others where also killed.

You DO know what that means, Yamato ?

The Israeli's will disregard any future cease-fire offers. And rightly so.

The Muslim Brotherhood seems to be willing to allow its HAMAS catpaw to be utterly annihilated, just as they did with the PLO. And - of course - the Palestinian civilian population.

Edited by RoofGardener
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Kidnapped during a cease fire ?

You DO know what that means, Yamato ?

The Israeli's will disregard any future cease-fire offers. And rightly so.

Ending the "cease fire" is as meaningless as John Doublespeak Kerry. And soldiers aren't "kidnapped" they're "captured". You can't say over and over again that it's "war" and then use a term like "kidnapped" to explain a capture. Criminals aren't legal on any planet I've ever been on. Only in Israel.

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it's weird because the news I was getting from Facebook pages reported many breaks to the cease fire from the Israeli side, I tend to believe those sources more

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Posted (edited)

Ending the "cease fire" is as meaningless as John Doublespeak Kerry. And soldiers aren't "kidnapped" they're "captured". You can't say over and over again that it's "war" and then use a term like "kidnapped" to explain a capture. Criminals aren't legal on any planet I've ever been on. Only in Israel.

Weeeell..... perhaps I'm quibbling a bit... in the sense that I'm following international law.... BUT......

Soldiers are only "captured" when a state of war exists. No such state has been legally declared in the Gaza Strip. Hence "kidnapped" is the more accurate term.

As for "criminals aren't legal on any planet.. only in Israel... " .. Umm... I hate to break the news to you Yamato, but the Gaza Strip isn't in Israel... and hasn't been for 8 years. Please DO try and keep up.

As for "Ending the "cease fire" is as meaningless as John Doublespeak Kerry." .. well, I have NO idea what you are talking about there. Could you explain that one ?

And I can't help but notice that you ducked the issue of the two soldiers who where NOT kidnapped, but simply killed ?

Warm regards, as ever.

RoofGardener :)

Edited by RoofGardener
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Weeeell..... perhaps I'm quibbling a bit... in the sense that I'm following international law.... BUT......

Soldiers are only "captured" when a state of war exists. No such state has been legally declared in the Gaza Strip. Hence "kidnapped" is the more accurate term.

As for "criminals aren't legal on any planet.. only in Israel... " .. Umm... I hate to break the news to you Yamato, but the Gaza Strip isn't in Israel... and hasn't been for 8 years. Please DO try and keep up.

As for "Ending the "cease fire" is as meaningless as John Doublespeak Kerry." .. well, I have NO idea what you are talking about there. Could you explain that one ?

And I can't help but notice that you ducked the issue of the two soldiers who where NOT kidnapped, but simply killed ?

Warm regards, as ever.

RoofGardener :)

If you support the occupation you're breaking international law. If you support the siege you're breaking international law. If you're violating the rights of Palestinians you're breaking international law. This isn't multiple choice. You don't get to cherry pick which laws you like and ignore the ones you don't.

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