Ebola patient coming to U.S.

[aquatus1]

Thank you, Hollywood, for teaching people how pharmaceutical research works and is implemented during crisis situations. I'm sure no unrealistic expectations will ever be incorporated by the masses, and everyone will understand that in real life, things don't work quite so neatly.

[+susieice]

A zombie apocalypse. Really.

[+OverSword]

And shows how easily people will panic. Next step, please impose measures for our own good, we beg you.

Has this happened yet? As good as had. Threat level one according to the CDC eh? Oh well at least they're alert to the threat, as unlikely or non-existent as it may be.

[+susieice]

The NYC case has tested negative for Ebola.

http://6abc.com/heal...patient/245479/

Another woman who had just returned from West Africa was tested in a hospital in Freehold, NJ. She was also negative. For some reason the vid is crashing. I'll see if I can find one on another station.

http://6abc.com/heal...hold-nj/245453/

Here we go.

http://www.nj.com/mo...a_concerns.html

Apparently Ohio too. Negative for Ebola.

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/ohio-woman-tested-ebola-report-article-1.1892415

Edited August 7, 2014 by susieice

[libstaK]

I get all of that libstack, Do you really believe that out of the more than one thousand infectees there have been since the beginning of this outbreak that they could not find one person capable of giving informed consent? A person would really have to have a low opinion of people in the 3rd world to actually believe they were all superstitious savages that thought ebola was caused by magical curses and demonic possession. It's beyond me that if they had the serum used on the Americans, apparently to good effect, they didn't try it out in Africa or fly an African victim to the USA a couple of months ago when this outbreak started. If you just still refuse to see my point or think my idea is just ridiculous we'll just have to agree to disagree. The fact they've had this serum ready for testing longer than the current outbreak is nothing short of a crime against humanity IMHO.

The truth of the entire matter is that there is no money to be made curing poor people, and that's the important thing. Profit.

In America an experimental vaccine can be administered in extreme circumstances on "compassionate" grounds. In Africa the laws are different.

But of course you would have read about that too by now?

That is just one point, there are many restrictions on using medication that has not been tested on humans. Do you remember Thalidomide? Ask the offspring of mothers who used it how they feel about inproperly tested drugs being put into circulation.

The fact is that the company that had the drug is a private corporation and the terms under which it chooses to make it available are dependent on the regulations within the country it is to be administered and the severity of the circumstances as a whole. The world took longer than it should have to understand the depth and scope of this outbreak and Big Pharma showed no interest at all until the citizens of the country it operates in became a force that drove it to attention. Nobody has to like it but that is how it is.

[+OverSword]

In America an experimental vaccine can be administered in extreme circumstances on "compassionate" grounds. In Africa the laws are different.

But of course you would have read about that too by now?

That is just one point, there are many restrictions on using medication that has not been tested on humans. Do you remember Thalidomide? Ask the offspring of mothers who used it how they feel about inproperly tested drugs being put into circulation.

The fact is that the company that had the drug is a private corporation and the terms under which it chooses to make it available are dependent on the regulations within the country it is to be administered and the severity of the circumstances as a whole. The world took longer than it should have to understand the depth and scope of this outbreak and Big Pharma showed no interest at all until the citizens of the country it operates in became a force that drove it to attention. Nobody has to like it but that is how it is.

So there is laws against trying to cure ebola with new drugs in "Africa"? (Africa is not a country) Sorry Libstack, the whole thing seems a combination of there not being profit curing people who have no money and (dare I say it?) racism.

[libstaK]

So there is laws against trying to cure ebola with new drugs in "Africa"? (Africa is not a country) Sorry Libstack, the whole thing seems a combination of there not being profit curing people who have no money and (dare I say it?) racism.

Nobody is denying private corporations are disposed to not act unless there is a profit - I believe I have mentioned that issue. However, that can be overcome by the power of public opinion. Guess where that is most likely to occur? In America where they are located.

They ARE currently under alot of pressure to proceed with developing said drugs, quite a few stories about that out there in the ether too, if you are still keeping up with the reading. They are getting close to looking like utter prats if they don't act and act now, I believe they will proceed.

I think racism is a step too far, what I see is nationalism - Americans want their own looked after first, every country expects it's government to look after them first.

Edited August 7, 2014 by libstaK

[+OverSword]

I think racism is a step too far, what I see is nationalism - Americans want their own looked after first, every country expects it's government to look after them first.

I think you're mistaken if you think pharmaceutical companies have a sense of nationalism. If the outbreak was happening in Ireland or a bankrupt country like Greece or someplace with a crap economy like Bosnia do you think they might have went there to test the serum or do you think they would have waited until an American was infected?

[toast]

So there is laws against trying to cure ebola with new drugs in "Africa"? (Africa is not a country) Sorry Libstack, the whole thing

seems a combination of there not being profit curing people who have no money and (dare I say it?) racism.

I have a 13 years experience in global clinical trial logistics and based on my experience I can tell you that even simple pickups

in Africa (except SA, there is western standard) of non infectious human samples are subject to various, and often variable from

day to day, permits to be granted by the local authorities.

Another point is that these samples often need to be shipped frozen on dry ice and as dry ice is not available at the most spots in

West Africa so it needs to be shipped from e.g. SA to the pick up location. As dry ice is just solid for a defined period of time, the

samples must be ready to fly out at the day, or the day after, the cooling agent arrived in the pick up city. Such time schedule can

easy be managed in modern countries but not in West Africa. In addition, as the medical standard in West Africa is on a low level,

the most airlines do accept shipments of human samples only if these are packed and documented in compliance to UN2814

(infectious substance) and this requires additional packaging material as per IATA guidlines, additional documentation and permits

and lead to limited flight options as not all passenger aircrafts are open for the transport of infectious substances. These are some

of the reasons why there is no clinical trial with Ebola vaccines in West Africa.

And not to forget to mention that when a clinical trial is planned by, e.g., an US pharma company, the whole study setup/design

needs to get reviewed and approved by the FDA (and even for studies outside the US if the US pharma company want to sell the

vaccine on US soil later on) first. The study design setup also contains the number of samples to be taken and analyzed. Lets

say, 100 samples to be taken from 10 different patients over a time period of 10 month. So thats the defined target of the study

and based on that value, the FDA gave to ok to run the trial. If, at the end of the trail (phase), the number of analyzed samples is

below 100 the study target has not neen reached. Of course, there is always a failure rate included and 20% aberrance will

not endanger the study but if there are only 60 samples analyzed, the study target has not been reached and so the FDA will

not appove the study results. Means, game over and millions of USD wasted.

So why not to anyalize the samples in local labs? The answer is quite simple, quality. All sample analysis within clinicla trials

are conducted in big central labs like QUEST Diagnostics and COVANCE Labs onyl. The reason therefor is to guarantee that

all samples collected within a global multicenter study are analyzed at the same (high) standard. Central labs who wanna join

that club, need to get approved by the FDA. So even central labs outside the US, who want to work for Pharma companys

who want to sell meds on US soil, need that approval and are audited by the FDA on a regular basis. These audits are

performed by FDA members, visiting the labs for examination.

Edited August 7, 2014 by toast

[libstaK]

I think you're mistaken if you think pharmaceutical companies have a sense of nationalism. If the outbreak was happening in Ireland or a bankrupt country like Greece or someplace with a crap economy like Bosnia do you think they might have went there to test the serum or do you think they would have waited until an American was infected?

There isn't a means to answer that question because we don't know what petitions the E.U. or U.N. would make in those circumstances nor what allowances would be made to use experimental medication outside normal standards for those regions. I don't believe the company is nationalist, I believe those that have petitioned for the drug's use despite it's experimental status are - and that would include actual people within the company.

[+susieice]

I think you're mistaken if you think pharmaceutical companies have a sense of nationalism. If the outbreak was happening in Ireland or a bankrupt country like Greece or someplace with a crap economy like Bosnia do you think they might have went there to test the serum or do you think they would have waited until an American was infected?

American doctors have been going to Africa to assist in Ebola outbreaks for 40 years. Many...many have gotten the disease and died. Doctors Without Borders...etc. There's just no telling you that this serum may not be as old as you think it is. Remember the monkeys they were testing on? It's possible that funding for their research could have been stopped years ago. Or the testing kept failing. You can't go around using people as test subjects. Remember the 30's when testing was done on convicts? The legality of all this is confounding. This doctor and nurse asked for the serum. Now they need to do intense study of the effects before it will be approved.

Edited August 7, 2014 by susieice

[+OverSword]

American doctors have been going to Africa to assist in Ebola outbreaks for 40 years. Many...many have gotten the disease and died. Doctors Without Borders...etc. There's just no telling you that this serum may not be as old as you think it is. Remember the monkeys they were testing on? It's possible that funding for their research could have been stopped years ago. Or the testing kept failing. You can't go around using people as test subjects. Remember the 30's when testing was done on convicts? The legality of all this is confounding. This doctor and nurse asked for the serum. Now they need to do intense study of the effects before it will be approved.

Please inform me of the legality of human testing just because they requested to be human guinea pigs? It doesn't work like that does it susieice? Or does it? Hmmmm.....Do you see the point yet? How much did they bypass just to give these two Americans the serum? To me this entire thing screams corruption and racism. You don't have to agree with me. I bloody well guarantee you if there was an ebola outbreak in Ireland they would not wait until there were 1,000 dead before trying this serum out, deny it if you wish but you would be stupid to do so.

[+susieice]

Please inform me of the legality of human testing just because they requested to be human guinea pigs? It doesn't work like that does it susieice? Or does it? Hmmmm.....Do you see the point yet? How much did they bypass just to give these two Americans the serum? To me this entire thing screams corruption and racism. You don't have to agree with me. I bloody well guarantee you if there was an ebola outbreak in Ireland they would not wait until there were 1,000 dead before trying this serum out, deny it if you wish but you would be stupid to do so.

libstaK did a good job explaining that in post #80. You can't just give people untested serum and you can't give it without their consent. Maybe the doctor and nurse are the first one's to give that. I also don't think this serum has been around for as long as you seem to think.

http://www.latimes.c...0806-story.html

The outbreak that's occurring isn't the fault of the US either. This is going to be a tough disease to beat. It's all going on the fast track now. That takes funding and it's actually the military who began the search. Please read the link.

Edited August 9, 2014 by susieice

[Stellar]

Please inform me of the legality of human testing just because they requested to be human guinea pigs? It doesn't work like that does it susieice? Or does it? Hmmmm.....Do you see the point yet? How much did they bypass just to give these two Americans the serum? To me this entire thing screams corruption and racism. You don't have to agree with me. I bloody well guarantee you if there was an ebola outbreak in Ireland they would not wait until there were 1,000 dead before trying this serum out, deny it if you wish but you would be stupid to do so.

You sure talk as if you really care about the lives of others. Does that care extend to doing what's necessary to protect people being murdered in the middle east, or is this just the Ebola situation just the latest fashion for you to claim the moral high ground in your anti-US crusade?

[White Crane Feather]

Mehhhh. It's not as communicable as people think but it is highly infectious ( 2 different things) , the problems in Africa are cultural and lak of knowledge.

It will do nothing to the US. Even if it got out a bit we don't wash our dead thn sit next to the body to have a last dinner.

We need to understand it incase it does go air born someday, the day WILL come when we have to face something like it that is airborne. Consider it a practice run.

You should be worried about the guys creating flu viruses that circumvent the human immune system. If that junk gets out we will have our plague.

My wory is that some mad scientist or terrorist lab can get this virus fairly easy now put it in a spray bottle and reek havoc. No better way to disrupt the American way of life then to pray down a few Vegas buffets with Ebola water. Scary.

Edited August 9, 2014 by White Crane Feather

[libstaK]

Mehhhh. It's not as communicable as people think but it is highly infectious ( 2 different things) , the problems in Africa are cultural and lak of knowledge.

It will do nothing to the US. Even if it got out a bit we don't wash our dead thn sit next to the body to have a last dinner.

We need to understand it incase it does go air born someday, the day WILL come when we have to face something like it that is airborne. Consider it a practice run.

You should be worried about the guys creating flu viruses that circumvent the human immune system. If that junk gets out we will have our plague.

My wory is that some mad scientist or terrorist lab can get this virus fairly easy now put it in a spray bottle and reek havoc. No better way to disrupt the American way of life then to pray down a few Vegas buffets with Ebola water. Scary.

Oh dear, you really shouldn't give them ideas - collecting the Ebola virus in samples is not gonna be that hard especially right now.

[+susieice]

Oh dear, you really shouldn't give them ideas - collecting the Ebola virus in samples is not gonna be that hard especially right now.

I have a few theories of how it might be able to take hold in certain areas of the US if it got here in a high enough amount, but I like your reasoning libstaK. Let's not give anyone any ideas.

[+susieice]

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/08/08/ebola-outbreak-declared-public-health-emergency-by-world-health-organization/

[Mr Supertypo]

A zombie apocalypse. Really.

I prefer a zombie apocalypse than a ebola apoc..

[toast]

My wory is that some mad scientist or terrorist lab can get this virus fairly easy now put it in a spray bottle and reek havoc.

No better way to disrupt the American way of life then to pray down a few Vegas buffets with Ebola water. Scary.

indeed, that is the key threat but the most ppl didn`t realized this fact yet. We can shut down or limit the "normal" ways of

distribution of the virus but we cannot prohibit a deliberate distribution. And thats the reason for that we need an effective

vaccine as soon as possible.

[+susieice]

I prefer a zombie apocalypse than a ebola apoc..

Me too. I want my million.

[White Crane Feather]

indeed, that is the key threat but the most ppl didn`t realized this fact yet. We can shut down or limit the "normal" ways of

distribution of the virus but we cannot prohibit a deliberate distribution. And thats the reason for that we need an effective

vaccine as soon as possible.

I'm sure someone has already done it. Look for outbreaks in the Middle East. These will be the people that miss handled it.

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/08/10/suspected-ebola-victim-did-not-have-virus-saudi-arabia-health-ministry-says/

They would lie about it wouldn't they?

Edited August 11, 2014 by White Crane Feather

[White Crane Feather]

Oh dear, you really shouldn't give them ideas - collecting the Ebola virus in samples is not gonna be that hard especially right now.

Nope. But I'm sure they already thought of it. Luckily it takes some sophistication to not kill yourself while collecting it. It will show up first in a highly developed country first. Probably from an "aid" worker or "doctor" who sacrificed himself to be the host.

The case above has my spidy senses tingling. I'm not convinced he wasn't infected.

Edited August 11, 2014 by White Crane Feather

[libstaK]

Nope. But I'm sure they already thought of it. Luckily it takes some sophistication to not kill yourself while collecting it. It will show up first in a highly developed country first. Probably from an "aid" worker or "doctor" who sacrificed himself to be the host.

The case above has my spidy senses tingling. I'm not convinced he wasn't infected.

I'm not sure that is a fair assessment, why lie about it? The fact that there is dissension and a criminal element in the ME doesn't make every move made in that region suspect, especially where health professionals are concerned.

[White Crane Feather]

I'm not sure that is a fair assessment, why lie about it? The fact that there is dissension and a criminal element in the ME doesn't make every move made in that region suspect, especially where health professionals are concerned.

Yeah your right of course, to much television for me I guess. I must admit I have a little bit of a CT in me that I risk entertaining now and then.

Edited August 11, 2014 by White Crane Feather