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spartan max2

Are kids today more pressured to succeed

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Posted (edited)

What say you?

I think childhood in todays time is not the same as it use to be. The pressure for schooling in order to succeed is high, you havet o start worrying about college and everything earlier it seems . Its not the carefree time anymore that other generations say it is. Now you have to have a college degree even for manager positions and you know your going to have huge debt and you know this from an early age

Thats my take anyways, what about everyone else? I especially want to hear the opinions of the older members,

edit: to add also in a job market where degrees are not worth as much anymore so more people get masters etc

Edited by spartan max2
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No, not on learning but on passing the test to go to college.

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No, not on learning but on passing the test to go to college.

Even that much depends on where you live, my high school education was a joke. I lived in SoCal where the goal was to have kids graduate with the ability to read English and do basic algebra, many failed at that.

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I just tell children to learn Chinese because they will need it during the next world war.

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Yes they are. With job numbers falling the best options I can think of are either learn foreign languages to better chances of having a good career abroad or learn a trade and work for their self. If I young I would work for myself and do my best not to have to rely on an employer.

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Well, they pretty much demand that kids learn to read in Kindergarten now, whereas you used to be able to get by without learning to read well till 2nd or 3rd grade. Also they need kids to be able to add and subtract by Kindergarten, whereas it again used to be 2nd or 3rd grade, 40 years ago.

Things are more competitive now. You need good grades and lots of extra curricular if you are going to be able to go to the better schools and better colleges.

And then they get a degree in Comparative Coffee Tasting, with a minor in World of Warcraft, and wonder why they can't get a job.

I'd say Yes there is more pressure then there used to be. More homework also.

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Every generation has different kinds of pressures.

We were also pressured to go to college and graduate, and to take advanced courses and lots of science and math courses. We were pressured to sit silently in school and to learn another language or at least music (mine were not unusual schools... this was fairly standard.) Our textbooks were more complex. We had to diagram sentences, too (hated that.)

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Yes, they are; it's a much more complicated world than 40 yrs. ago.

More , and tougher competition. Also more pressure to make even more money...Masters Degree is no guarantee of (quality) employment these days.

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Posted (edited)

I think if you want to get in to a top medical school or top law or top business school it is incredibly difficult and outrageously competitive and EXPENSIVE. You have to be superhuman in high school and college.

And there are a few state schools in the US that are pretty tough to get into.

But their are still plenty of colleges average (normal) students can get into. And depending on the schools help with employment, who you know, and if you stick with your major, when you get out it's a crap shoot. And the debt that follows you is insane as college tuitions have risen how many times higher than cost of living?

Edited by QuiteContrary

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I have a friend who did extremely well in high school and got a full boat scholarship to a great college. But due to some unfortunate circumstances he was never able to attend college. So he managed a chain restaurant.

My H asked him "What do you want to be doing?". He said "computer programming". My H said "Why aren't you?" "Because I never went to college." My H said "So what". Go get your foot in the door. So he visited a local computer programming company, took a test they give and outscored the owner of the company! He was hired immediately and has had a top job at a large computer software company and still no college degree. NO college debt either.

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Yeah I think kids probably are under greater pressure. My 8 year old son is the youngest in his school year and a good 8-9 months younger than some of the other kids. His reading and writing isn't as good as some of the others (his math is excellent) but he gets so much pressure from the teachers.

And I mean pressure, not just encouragement. We spend a lot of time at home reading and writing to try and improve but because of school tables the teachers want children to hit certain markers at certain points. Because of school tables it makes the teachers / school look bad if they don't hit those.

But children are all SO different and will hit different milestones at different points. My son can read very well but because he still sounds out some words so his reading doesn't flow as well this is what he was marked down on. And his writing is generally fine, but they teach kids to write joined up at our school which he isn't great at so because of this he gets marked down.

I actually had to go to school and sort things out because his teacher had kept him in every lunch break (eating his sandwiches at his desk) so that he could practise writing. This was without my knowledge and he was getting really upset on a morning before school and it took a little while to figure it out. On two days he wasn't even allowed a morning break so he basically went from 8.45am to 3.15pm without a break because the teacher wanted him to study more. He just turned 8 yrs old mid July. I wasn't happy with the teacher at all!!!

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Pressuring young children is not a good idea. If anything it will simply serve to turn them off from education.

In order to really be successful in life people have to be (you heard it here first) happy/content with their job. My daughter is 28 and a Kindergarden teacher, she's certainly not rich or in a 'snooty' vocation. However, she loves her job and is happy to go to work each and every day.

Contrast this with a young man she went to high school with. His parents were money conscious and IMO rather snobbish. He was pressured to go to an Ivy league college and then to on to law school. He managed to graduate and eventually pass the bar. The problem was he was horribly unhappy. Unhappy to the point of abusing drugs/alcohol and eventually ODing. His own sister found him, it was positively horrible. Dead at 28 isn't what anyone wants for their child.

Being able to make money and pay ones bills is important. But, being happy with ones life is also important.

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Well, they pretty much demand that kids learn to read in Kindergarten now, whereas you used to be able to get by without learning to read well till 2nd or 3rd grade. Also they need kids to be able to add and subtract by Kindergarten, whereas it again used to be 2nd or 3rd grade, 40 years ago.

Things are more competitive now. You need good grades and lots of extra curricular if you are going to be able to go to the better schools and better colleges.

And then they get a degree in Comparative Coffee Tasting, with a minor in World of Warcraft, and wonder why they can't get a job.

I'd say Yes there is more pressure then there used to be. More homework also.

Not sure where you went to school, but in the public school system in Alabama in the early 70s, were expected to know how to read and be able to do basic arithmetic in the 1st grade.

I don't really think it's a case of putting too much pressure on students, it's more about stressing the wrong things. Kids are being pushed to learn more and more and yet our students continue to lag behind other top nations. It's not unusual in some countries for middle schoolers to know multiple foreign languages, whereas in the US students barely have exposure to one before the end of high school.

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What say you?

I think childhood in todays time is not the same as it use to be. The pressure for schooling in order to succeed is high, you have to start worrying about college and everything earlier it seems . Its not the carefree time anymore that other generations say it is. Now you have to have a college degree even for manager positions and you know your going to have huge debt and you know this from an early age

Thats my take anyways, what about everyone else? I especially want to hear the opinions of the older members,

edit: to add also in a job market where degrees are not worth as much anymore so more people get masters etc

When it comes to being a leader (which a parent is) most get their approach wrong. They try coercive leadership techniques where they attempt to force the child to do well. Applying pressure creates a stressful homelife for the kid resulting in unhappyness, resentment and underachievement.

You get them to do well in life by instead getting them interested in learning. When they want to learn, when they enjoy learning, they become high-flyers.

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Not sure where you went to school, but in the public school system in Alabama in the early 70s, were expected to know how to read and be able to do basic arithmetic in the 1st grade.

I don't really think it's a case of putting too much pressure on students, it's more about stressing the wrong things. Kids are being pushed to learn more and more and yet our students continue to lag behind other top nations. It's not unusual in some countries for middle schoolers to know multiple foreign languages, whereas in the US students barely have exposure to one before the end of high school.

I think school starts a year later in the US and they finish high school at 18. Therefore they're behind for their ages when compared to their British and European counter parts.

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I think they are, yes.

In Australia for example, a young person almost needs a University Degree to get a job at all.

Employers are insisting on higher qualifications because, I think, education standards have fallen drastically over the years.

As a former employer, I was saddened by the lack of basic English and Arithmatic held by most of the young people applying for jobs.

Imho, it's a circular problem, poorly educated, poorly skilled teachers are not teaching what the young people need to know about in order to get a job. These days they seem to be more about teaching the touchy feely stuff, rather that the four R's.

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Posted (edited)

I think school starts a year later in the US and they finish high school at 18. Therefore they're behind for their ages when compared to their British and European counter parts.

Most kids in the US are in some kind of structured kindergarten program at age 5, which I think is the same for the UK. Many are also being introduced to basic reading and math concepts while in formal daycare programs. My oldest girl starts kindergarten next month, but has been doing math and reading workbooks for at least 2 years at her daycare.

I do think that schools need to take a fresh look at the academic calendar and move away from a 2-3 months summer break. Personally I've always felt a quarter or trimester-style system with 2-3 week breaks between each session would work well. Of course that would mean retooling pretty much our entire society so it's probably not going to happen at the public school level at least.

As for the value model of higher education, I think it still makes sense IF you are pursuing the right fields of study and have a good idea of what you want to pursue as a career. Unfortunately very few of us have the luxury to pursue education for education's sake anymore, which is truly sad as I think we're all better off as a society if the fields of business, law, medicine, science, etc. are balanced with philosophy, history, political science, english, etc.

I think one of the big issues is that kids are jumping into college, wracking up huge debt, and have no freaking Earthly idea what they want to do with their lives. Frankly I'm a big proponent of national service for this very reason. Spending a couple of years working in a national park, helping inner city children, or in the military no doubt brings a new level of maturity and understanding the question of "what am I going to do with my life".

Edited by Rafterman
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Posted (edited)

Most kids in the US are in some kind of structured kindergarten program at age 5, which I think is the same for the UK. Many are also being introduced to basic reading and math concepts while in formal daycare programs. My oldest girl starts kindergarten next month, but has been doing math and reading workbooks for at least 2 years at her daycare.

I do think that schools need to take a fresh look at the academic calendar and move away from a 2-3 months summer break. Personally I've always felt a quarter or trimester-style system with 2-3 week breaks between each session would work well. Of course that would mean retooling pretty much our entire society so it's probably not going to happen at the public school level at least.

Its 4 here and we finish high school at 16. I bet if the parents were to encourage the kids, get them interested in learning and teach them stuff at home the kids would be capable of passing their high school exams at 10 years of age. However people would hate the kids for it out of jealousy.

I agree with smaller but more frequent breaks to stop school becoming a drain for the kids.

Edited by RabidMongoose

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Its 4 here and we finish high school at 16. I bet if the parents were to encourage the kids, get them interested in learning and teach them stuff at home the kids would be capable of passing their high school exams at 10 years of age. However people would hate the kids for it out of jealousy.

I agree with smaller but more frequent breaks to stop school becoming a drain for the kids.

I was 19 when I finished High School, because I started first grade when I was 6.

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Not sure where you went to school, but in the public school system in Alabama in the early 70s, were expected to know how to read and be able to do basic arithmetic in the 1st grade.

I don't really think it's a case of putting too much pressure on students, it's more about stressing the wrong things. Kids are being pushed to learn more and more and yet our students continue to lag behind other top nations. It's not unusual in some countries for middle schoolers to know multiple foreign languages, whereas in the US students barely have exposure to one before the end of high school.

What can I say. In Oregon they didn't have that expectation, I guess.

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My sidter-in-law, a teacher, was told it was unfair to teach kids to read and simple math, ie counting, before they started kindergarten. My niece was able to read some and count long before then.

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My wife and I started teaching our children as soon as they could speak. They've been home schooled for 3 years now and two of them are having colleges constantly wanting them, a few are offering scholarships. So start teaching your kids as soon as you can, give them a love for learning. Wish my parents had. I feel like the dumbest person in my household.

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My wife and I started teaching our children as soon as they could speak. They've been home schooled for 3 years now and two of them are having colleges constantly wanting them, a few are offering scholarships. So start teaching your kids as soon as you can, give them a love for learning. Wish my parents had. I feel like the dumbest person in my household.

My like was for teaching your kids and taking responsibility.

Not for you feeling dumb!! :whistle:

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Posted (edited)

Well when you live in a house with a Pharmacist wife, your oldest two are in all honor classes, and your youngest is a certified genus in technology, you feel kind of dumb. lol

Heck all I have is a high school education and a semester in Tech for machine tool. Unfortunately I knew more than the teacher did. I've been around it almost my entire life. I learned how to program a CNC mill on my own.

I think children are more pressured to conform and perform to the same degree as everyone else. Sadly we all learn differently. I was put in the dumb classes most of my childhood because I had "Issues". Those issues were undiagnosed dyslexia. Although it's not sever, it still impedes me to some degree. I've always learnt better by doing than through book work alone.

Edited by XenoFish
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All scoring is still based off of some percentile based system certainly. Al that matters in that regard is what system of education you are competing against and how well you score on a standardized test for whatever subject.

What is sad is that not all modes of learning are utilized in schools. As a result those that do not fit well into the paradigm of modern education tend to fall short of their true potential.

Trying to fit the triangle into the circle hole is bloody stupid. Which is exactly what is happening for some kids with monster potential.

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