Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 2
Riaan

The Palestinian / Israeli conflict

98 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

In view of the current Israeli / Palestinian conflict, I could not help but wonder who was there first. As claimed by Manetho, the ancient Hebrews were none other than the Hyksos who were driven from Egypt by Ahmose I and settled in Palestine, where they built Jerusalem (I prove this theory in my book Thera and the Exodus. In the last chapter of Thera and the Exodus I speculate that the Hebrews may have been as ancient as the Egyptians themselves, with Ab-Ra-am meaning Father-Ra-of-the-People, in other words the Egyption 'god' Ra (Re).

Either way, there can be no doubt that the Israelites were in charge of most parts of Palestine in the time of Christ. I am not familiar with the more recent history of Palestine in terms of when the Jews would have been driven from that land. By the Ottoman Empire? Any comments?

Edited by Riaan
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

do we really need this?it will be like 8,000 pages long

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who was there first? Well, are we even sure today Jews have anything to do with bilical Hebrews? Or that Palestinians aren't ancien Hebrews converted into Muslims when the new religion came around?

Anyway, in absolute term, Neandertals were there first. :tu:

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe this will help.

Link: http://www.freerepublic.com

1. Israel became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam.

2. Arab refugees began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.

3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 B.C.E, the Jews had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.

4.The only Arab domination since the conquest in 635 C.E. lasted no more than 22 years.

5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.

6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 hundred times in Bible. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran.

7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.

8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.

9. Arab and Jewish refugees: Arabs were not driven out of their homes. Following the UN decision on Partition in 1948, the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders, promising to purge the land of Jews. They argued that an "Arab presence" would only get in the way of the planned devastation. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.

10. The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.

11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees absorbed by Israel from Arab countries is estimated to be the same.

12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples'lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey.

13. The Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself each time and won.

14. The P.L.O.'s Charter still calls for the destruction of the state of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank and autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied their police and security forces with weapons.

15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Jewish grave markers were used to build public urinals in occupied Jerusalem. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.

16. The U.N. record on Israel and the Arabs of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel -- notwithstanding the fact that the Arabs refused to participate in the 15 nation United Nations Commission of Palestine which recommended partition in 1948 and sought immediately to undo its work by force of arms.

17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.

18. The U.N. was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians between 1948 and 1967.

19. The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives between 1948 and 1967.

20. The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall between 1948 and 1967.

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Both, just the one gang was first believers of Baal, the others of Jehova and because they could not get it together were first taken over by the Assyrians, then by the Greek and then by the Romans.

Now, if you ask what nation has the oldest rights to that nation the short answer would be the Egyptians on the south (about 1000 years before the first Jew showed up) and the Syrians to the North (about the same time frame). But given that both were horribly spanked by the Greeks and lost the area (besides their home countries) I doubt that they can provide the title.

But I don't believe that you actually want to discuss history here, you just want to push down some pro-Israeli or pro-Palestinian propaganda down our throats... for which we have the Near East forum.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But I don't believe that you actually want to discuss history here, you just want to push down some pro-Israeli or pro-Palestinian propaganda down our throats... for which we have the Near East forum.

I would disagree. The OP's starting thread seems rather innocuous and asks an authentic question. Then LucidElement provided an excellent recap of history for us to answer the question.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would disagree. The OP's starting thread seems rather innocuous and asks an authentic question. Then LucidElement provided an excellent recap of history for us to answer the question.

As far as history there is nothing to discuss, the facts are quite well established. So is the fact that Palestine, at the time it was given to the (mostly European) Jews belonged to the British Empire, and as owners they could do what they well pleased with it (even though I still think they should have taken Namibia which was on the table as alternative).

Israel and what we call now Palestine was created at the same time by the UN partition plan. The Israel-Palestinian problem came months after that... but that is a different story, and a story of a civil war that still has not ended today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe this will help.

Link: http://www.freerepublic.com

1. Israel became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam.

2. Arab refugees began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.

3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 B.C.E, the Jews had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.

4.The only Arab domination since the conquest in 635 C.E. lasted no more than 22 years.

5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.

6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 hundred times in Bible. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran.

7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.

8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.

9. Arab and Jewish refugees: Arabs were not driven out of their homes. Following the UN decision on Partition in 1948, the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders, promising to purge the land of Jews. They argued that an "Arab presence" would only get in the way of the planned devastation. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.

10. The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.

11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees absorbed by Israel from Arab countries is estimated to be the same.

12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples'lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey.

13. The Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself each time and won.

14. The P.L.O.'s Charter still calls for the destruction of the state of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank and autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied their police and security forces with weapons.

15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Jewish grave markers were used to build public urinals in occupied Jerusalem. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.

16. The U.N. record on Israel and the Arabs of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel -- notwithstanding the fact that the Arabs refused to participate in the 15 nation United Nations Commission of Palestine which recommended partition in 1948 and sought immediately to undo its work by force of arms.

17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.

18. The U.N. was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians between 1948 and 1967.

19. The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives between 1948 and 1967.

20. The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall between 1948 and 1967.

It really doesn't since there is much that isn't correct in the above about Jerusalem's and Israel's origins.

cormac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

You can't discuss this subject because it involves two different "races'. See this here;

"UM Rules:

3a. Racism or hatred: We have zero tolerance for racism or hatred towards any specific race, religion, country, gender, individual or group

Racism (of any form) is not allowed on UM forums."

If you were to mention Jews and Muslims, or Israelis and Arabs, you would have made a distinction between two identifiable groups. Then if you were to say that one of them is in the right and the other is wrong, you will have been guilty of UM forum racism. Therefore, this discussion can never actually take place on this forum unless you say that both groups are exactly equal and both are entirely in the right. In fact, from my experience here, you wouldn't even have to side with one or the other to be guilty of racism. Merely stating or implying that the two groups are in any way different would suffice for you to be labeled a racist. Yup, whenever people can't make valid points and win a debate based thereon, all they have to do is cry racism. There is rarely a situation involving discussing human relations in which racism can't be accused. It comes in so handy. If you were to say that the Jews deserve to live in Israel because the Bible says that they are God's chosen people, WHICH I AM NOT SAYING, then you would be guilty of racism. The Bible itself is abundantly racist and can therefore never be quoted in this forum.

Edited by Bennu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can't discuss this subject because it involves two different "races'. See this here;

"UM Rules:

3a. Racism or hatred: We have zero tolerance for racism or hatred towards any specific race, religion, country, gender, individual or group

Racism (of any form) is not allowed on UM forums."

If you were to mention Jews and Muslims, or Israelis and Arabs, you would have made a distinction between two identifiable groups. Then if you were to say that one of them is in the right and the other is wrong, you will have been guilty of UM forum racism. Therefore, this discussion can never actually take place on this forum unless you say that both groups are exactly equal and both are entirely in the right.

I would doubt that Israelis of ME origin are a "different race" than Palestinians of ME origin.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can't discuss this subject because it involves two different "races'.

There are a few problems with your argument: 1) "Race" is a social/sociopolitical construct created for no other reason than to make one group feel superior over another. In short, it's BS; 2) Jews and Palestinians are NOT different "races", but different ethnicities. That you apparently don't know the difference is rather telling and 3) crossing a line in one thread doesn't give you the right to quote rules to others in another.

cormac

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I would doubt that Israelis of ME origin are a "different race" than Palestinians of ME origin.

But are they of a different religion? Look at the quote I gave again.

"We have zero tolerance for racism or hatred towards any specific race, religion, country, gender, individual or group."

You can't discuss the difference in religion between the Jews and Palestinians or that they are from different countries if you side with one or the other. Now proceed to say something about the subject of this thread and see if I can show you how it qualifies as racism by this forum's standards. Which group do you think is in the right. Careful now. You mustn't offend either one.

Edited by Bennu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, there are Neanderthal remains in the area. :innocent:

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But are they of a different religion? Look at the quote I gave again.

"We have zero tolerance for racism or hatred towards any specific race, religion, country, gender, individual or group."

You can't discuss the difference in religion between the Jews and Palestinians or that they are from different countries if you side with one or the other. Now proceed to say something about the subject of this thread and see if I can show you how it qualifies as racism by this forum's standards.

We are neither discussing the benefits or drawbacks of their respective religion but who was there first (answer: both).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

We are neither discussing the benefits or drawbacks of their respective religion but who was there first (answer: both).

Okay, and who do you say was "there first"? Oh, I guess you said both, which of course means that there was no first. So that subject is no longer of any concern. Now what do you say should happen with the Palestinians? Should the Israelis let them fire rockets at them with no military response?

Edited by Bennu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, and who do you say was "there first"?

Both.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Both.

Neither. Canaanites were there first. :P

cormac

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Neither. Canaanites were there first. :P

cormac

Ok, Ok... but you are still far away, 400,000 years ago there were some "Sapiens" (or variety thereof) in Rosh Haayin.... no Koran or Bible was found near by...

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Simple question; are the Palestinians right to fire rockets at Israel? also, it has been shown by genetic testing that about 70% of the Jews in Israel are descended from the Canaanites. Does that mean that they were there first?

Edited by Bennu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Simple question; are the Palestinians right to fire rockets at Israel? also, it has been shown by genetic testing that about 70% of the Jews in Israel are descended from the Canaanites. Does that mean that they were there first?

That question is being discussed in its appropriate forum (see Middle East in News) and does not pertain to history.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That question is being discussed in its appropriate forum (see Middle East in News) and does not pertain to history.

Oh I see. This is just a "who was there first" thread. Of course, nobody can say anything other than "both" or they'll be a racist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh I see. This is just a "who was there first" thread. Of course, nobody can say anything other than "both" or they'll be a racist.

If you want to discuss the religion aspect of it then the answer is neither. The Assyrian cults and the Egyptian cults were there first. Now happy?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Oh I see. This is just a "who was there first" thread. Of course, nobody can say anything other than "both" or they'll be a racist.

The definition of racism: the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races. Saying that one particular race of people occupied a location, historically, before another is not racism. For instance, if I assert that the Native Americans were in America before the Europeans, that does not imply one group is inferior or superior to another.

Edited by Perceptivum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

The definition of racism: the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races. Saying that one particular race of people occupied a location, historically, before another is not racism. For instance, if I assert that the Native Americans were in America before the Europeans, that does not imply one group is inferior or superior to another.

Sure, but my posts on another thread were deleted even though I didn't state that the characteristics of particular races made them superior or inferior to another, merely different in an obviously observable way, their appearance, so that's apparently not the standard here. It should be, but it's apparently not. In fact, I was very careful not to say that one was superior or inferior to another, because I knew that somebody would pipe up that I was a racist. Then, surprise surprise, that's exactly what happened. Then to top it off the moderator deleted by posts with no explanation and left a post about racism not being allowed, as if I been been guilty of it. I was not sent any message quoting what I wrote that was being judged as racism. Quite obvious that one of the people who labelled me a racist without justification made a complaint to the moderator. So where's the offending text? Let's see if I was racist or not.

Edited by Bennu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Maybe this will help.

Link: http://www.freerepublic.com

1. Israel became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam.

2. Arab refugees began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.

3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 B.C.E, the Jews had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.

4.The only Arab domination since the conquest in 635 C.E. lasted no more than 22 years.

5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.

6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 hundred times in Bible. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran.

7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.

8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.

9. Arab and Jewish refugees: Arabs were not driven out of their homes. Following the UN decision on Partition in 1948, the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders, promising to purge the land of Jews. They argued that an "Arab presence" would only get in the way of the planned devastation. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.

10. The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.

11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees absorbed by Israel from Arab countries is estimated to be the same.

12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples'lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey.

13. The Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself each time and won.

14. The P.L.O.'s Charter still calls for the destruction of the state of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank and autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied their police and security forces with weapons.

15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Jewish grave markers were used to build public urinals in occupied Jerusalem. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.

16. The U.N. record on Israel and the Arabs of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel -- notwithstanding the fact that the Arabs refused to participate in the 15 nation United Nations Commission of Palestine which recommended partition in 1948 and sought immediately to undo its work by force of arms.

17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.

18. The U.N. was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians between 1948 and 1967.

19. The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives between 1948 and 1967.

20. The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall between 1948 and 1967.

I don't wish to appear to be rude, but if all of your points are correct, then the right of the Israeli people is firmly established.

Why has the UN allowed this conflict to rage for so long?

Don't you agree that it's time that there was an end to it?

Edited by toyomotor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 2

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.