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Opus Magnus

How to do this

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It says in the Bible and Gospel to honor thy father and thy mother. It also says to call no man on earth your father, since one is your father the lord your God. Jesus says that everyone who follows God is his mother, sister and brethren. He also says to be his disciple you must hate your parents, wife, brethren and own life also and bear your cross everyday.

So, honor thy father and mother, but don't call any man on earth your father since one is your father the lord your God, and honor all your mothers and hate all of them too.

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Are you actually looking for some help here or is this one of those times where people ask a question w/ an end goal in mind of "AHA, so the bible is b.s. HAHAHAH YOU FOOLISH PEOPLE AND YOUR BOOK"

I have no horse in the particular race im just curious whether to not worry about this or to provide some help

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Posted (edited)

No

Edited by Opus Magnus

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Ah, screw it, i'll go with you want some help.

The first thing to understand with scripture is that its a translation from greek, and i believe aramaic to, in the case of KJV olde english. so theres some ideas obscured by translation.

What christ probably meant in all this was in a scope beyond the immediate things he was saying "honor your mother and father" for instance is to have some reverence to the people in life who are giving you guidance, whether thats your blood is another matter, but its about being appreciative

now to call no man your father, hes most likely talking about in comparison to God. as in Dont hold any man above God in your life. And something similar w/ the idea of "hating your liufe" and what have you. Its meant to be that in comparison to god, and also if these things cause you to veer away from god in your walk with him.

But the bible is a largely vague book for a reason, and this is just a few interpretations.

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The bible was written across many centuries by several different hands.

Understanding this will give you a better grasp on the many inconsistencies .

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The passages you're speaking of are coming from Matthew and Luke, and though the topics sound similar, the intended audiences for each Gospel changes the context of the message and its implications.

The first part, that no man can have an earthly father, is from Matthew. St. Matthew wrote his Gospel to the Jewish people before Christianity was its own stand-alone religion and was still a particular messianic sect of Judaism, no different in organization from the Sadducees, or Pharisees, or Essenes, and so on. It's the reason why St. Matthew opens the text by tracing Jesus' lineage back to Abraham and so frequently breaks into parentheses to say what prophecy Jesus was referring to or fulfilling in a particular moment.

When Christ made these comments, He was debating the practices of the scribes and Pharisees. Judaism-- ancient, classical, modern-- beautifully preserves traditions and lineages to an absurd degree of accuracy. For example, the Jewish surnames Coen, Cohen, Cohan, and other variant spellings actually refer to the kohanim (kohen in the singular), the hereditary line of priests beginning with Moses' brother Aaron. What's interesting to the point of spooky is a genetic study done on various male Cohens, et alia, across the world who identified themselves as truly being part of the kohanim tradition. The results found that all individuals sampled had a common ancestor in Egypto-Sinai/Canaan at some point between the seventeenth and fifteenth centuries BCE... So, Aaron, basically.

So with all of this importance placed on lineages in Judaean culture at the time, a construction worker/rabbi from the boonies and His band of blue-collar workers aren't going to have much clout when debating Scripture and Law with the affluent scribes who have been at this game since age six. Christ's statements, that this Evangelist resonated, on remove the premium placed on the strict caste system set up for religious authority. If every one has the same Father, are brother apprentices under one Rabbi, and teach the methods of a single Teacher, then no one can claim that their school or lineage or clan has anymore right to the truth than anyone else.

Next, hating mom and dad. If anyone had a reason to hate their father, it's this Jesus fellow. Straight facts on paper make it sound terrible: Father knocks up His teenage mom and then abandons her in the Judaean equivalent of Honey Booboo's town, doesn't talk to Him until He's thirty, then when the kid hits it big and becomes famous, dear ol' Dad comes back around and asks Him to help cover the checks for all of His Father's other hundred billion or so ne'er-do-well kids.

But this passage isn't because Jesus had any pent up issues. St. Luke was a Greek and wrote his Gospel as an inclusive address to the non-Jews in the world (which is why his lineage goes back to Adam). It comes at a time when Christ's following has just had an up-swing in numbers and people are hopping on the band wagon. Strategically, this doesn't help the master plan; Christ ensured that He would die specifically when He did and how He did. A small army of hangers-on would throw off the timing, draw attention from the authorities, and fill the pews with a bunch of lukewarm followers, not the ardent martyrs who started the world's largest religion.

The "hate" is meant to be a call to be willing to reject what is familiar and comfortable in order to follow and carry on the mission. In this moment, Christ is employing the philosophy of the general who burns every bridge his army crosses so that no one can desert or retreat, and in this patriarchal society, cutting ties with one's family is about as big of a bridge as you can burn.

But to be clear, the point isn't to actually do these things but to be willing to do them in recognition of a higher, spiritual plan in play... Jesus is doing that trust-fall exercise from corporate team building retreats.

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Well a lot of Priests these days.. fall themselves Father...

so maybe that is part of it

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It says in the Bible and Gospel to honor thy father and thy mother. It also says to call no man on earth your father, since one is your father the lord your God.

Hi Opus, thanks for sharing. Very insightful! I think there is a rational explanation to what seems to be contradictory.

In order for a biblical passage to be interpreted correctly, it must always be taken within its own context. Read the paragraphs before and after the passage. What are they trying to communicate? Here is a quote from a website that may clear this confusion up:

"Jesus criticized Jewish leaders who love "the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues, and salutations in the market places, and being called ‘rabbi’ by men" (Matt. 23:6–7). His admonition here is a response to the Pharisees’ proud hearts and their grasping after marks of status and prestige.

He was using hyperbole (exaggeration to make a point) to show the scribes and Pharisees how sinful and proud they were for not looking humbly to God as the source of all authority and fatherhood and teaching, and instead setting themselves up as the ultimate authorities, father figures, and teachers."

(http://www.catholic.com/tracts/call-no-man-father)

Jesus says that everyone who follows God is his mother, sister and brethren.

Normally, a man left his home when he got married, but Jesus never married.

"'Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.' This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church." (Ephesians 5:31-32 ESV)

In this case, Jesus was talking about leaving his earthly home and clinging to his spiritual wife, a congregation that acted as a spiritual mother, sister, and brother to each other; nurturing, serving, and defending each other. Besides, He knew that Mary and his siblings were trying to stop Him from preachings because He was upsetting the established religious order that the Pharisees and scribes had in their town.

He also says to be his disciple you must hate your parents, wife, brethren and own life also and bear your cross everyday.

The term "hate" was intended to be used to mean "love less." The translators used the best word they had available at the time to describe the Greek meaning of the word. I would argue that the translators would have used "despise" if the author meant to imply what some think he implied.

Anybody that loved anything more than Jesus would forsake Him because the enemy would use those things to lure them away from Christ. In context to the passage, many parents urged their children to follow the Jewish customs, don't rock the boat, and forsake Christ. How could you honor your parents' wish for you to forsake Christ and yet still follow Christ. You have to love your parents less than Christ in order to follow Him.

So, honor thy father and mother, but don't call any man on earth your father since one is your father the lord your God, and honor all your mothers and hate all of them too.

Thanks again for sharing. It is a good brain exercise, but it all makes perfect sense within its own context. Have a good day!

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Everything has a context, if you read random things you will waste all your time and get

little knowledge. Please read the whole Bible before you quote it.

Then read again, with the intention of finding the true meaning.

Then...................

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