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Alan McDougall

The illogical god of the Mormon cult

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Mormonism teaches that God used to be a man of flesh and blood on another planet in the universe and that he became a god (this is called exaltation) and came to this world and had physical intercourse with mother Mary, resulting in Jesus. Thinking about it this makes Jesus the illegitimate son of some alien, what about the rights of poor Joseph in this sad saga?

He was able to become a god because he followed the laws and ordinances of the god he served on another world. That god in turn was exalted by his god, who was exalted by his god, ad infinitum. In other words, there is a progression of gods being formed as far back as you look in time.

When you ask a Mormon who then created the universe most of them would give you the illogical reply that god did?

​lets take it from there, I am not sure this thread belongs here if not dear moderator please move it to its correct place?

This is not a rant against Mormon folk, but to refute a very illogical belief.

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Posted (edited)

It is called a leap of faith for a reason. You have to suspend some rational thought to accept the faith parts.

As for the logic of the answer it makes perfect sense, the god of this universe did. Just like the guy who baked the cake I am eating baked this cake, even though other people baked other cakes that existed before this cake and these cakes were, in turn, consumed before this cake existed.

See perfectly logical.

The most important questions though are;

Where are all these gods putting all these universes? Is there just a bunch of emptiness awaiting space-time/new gods to come along and put a universe in it?

What happens if a cat accidentally becomes exalted and creates a universe?

Is there a god hierarchy or a god lounge where they all hang out and complain about the lack of good people to exalt?

Edited by bubblykiss

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Posted (edited)

It is called a leap of faith for a reason. You have to suspend some rational thought to accept the faith parts.

As for the logic of the answer it makes perfect sense, the god of this universe did. Just like the guy who baked the cake I am eating baked this cake, even though other people baked other cakes that existed before this cake and these cakes were, in turn, consumed before this cake existed.

See perfectly logical.

The most important questions though are;

Where are all these gods putting all these universes? Is there just a bunch of emptiness awaiting space-time/new gods to come along and put a universe in it?

What happens if a cat accidentally becomes exalted and creates a universe?

Is there a god hierarchy or a god lounge where they all hang out and complain about the lack of good people to exalt?

I like your illogical logic! :yes:

Of course their puny little god does not and cannot create anything

Mormons have no doctrine or dogma, they just invent their extremely illogical religion as they go along. Their apostles are not apostles and they are an insult to the memory of the true biblical apostles. There are no living prophets and the only thing constant about these so-called fake prophets is they are constantly, without exception wrong in every prophecy they make.

And it is a lie when they say they are Christians they follow a golden missing book from a non-existing angel whose made up name is Moroni and he a moron if he did exist.

Edited by Alan McDougall
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Mormonism teaches that God used to be a man of flesh and blood on another planet in the universe and that he became a god (this is called exaltation) and came to this world and had physical intercourse with mother Mary, resulting in Jesus. Thinking about it this makes Jesus the illegitimate son of some alien, what about the rights of poor Joseph in this sad saga?

He was able to become a god because he followed the laws and ordinances of the god he served on another world. That god in turn was exalted by his god, who was exalted by his god, ad infinitum. In other words, there is a progression of gods being formed as far back as you look in time.

When you ask a Mormon who then created the universe most of them would give you the illogical reply that god did?

​lets take it from there, I am not sure this thread belongs here if not dear moderator please move it to its correct place?

This is not a rant against Mormon folk, but to refute a very illogical belief.

How is that any less logical than any other Christian sect? If anything, it's more logical, since at least their version of God (at least used to be) a physical being that could theoretically be demonstrated to exist. Also, they acknowledge the existence of other planets, unlike the Bible, haha ^_^

So yeah, Mormonism has irrational beliefs, like any religion, but comparatively, it's actually fairly plausible in its claims. ("fairly plausible" here meaning: at least hypothetically possible in our universe, haha :lol: )

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But Alan, I have seen you write about journeys to other planets with life on it. Was that just creative writing?

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Can you supply me with a list of 'logical' gods then, please?

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At leaast it's a better love story than Twilight.

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But Alan, I have seen you write about journeys to other planets with life on it. Was that just creative writing?

Of course, except two near death experiences and visions and dreams, but I make no claim that what I wrote is factual or can prove it, unlike the Mormons who insist that their beliefs are actual facts. that their god is a man of flesh and blood.

The God if my imagination would be the cause of all existence, not some fallible alien from another planet.

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Logical Religion is an oxymoron.

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Can you supply me with a list of 'logical' gods then, please?

Yes in fact I call this entity "Existence"

Or the "Something" instead of nothing"

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Logical Religion is an oxymoron.

If a person is moved to believe in a particular religious dogma or creed, they cannot justify it by logic only by blind faith.

That statement is an oxymoron, how can something logical be an oxymoron?

Although I agree, much of the universe such as the speed of light, quantum mechanics make no sense!

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If you look into it, you'll find that even the mormon church itself has backpedaled from a good deal of the alleged history of the church.

Frankly it's like a good deal of other religions when confronted with facts that don't line up with their various holy books - they just simply compartmentalize and/or ignore them. It really makes no logical sense to say that I'm still going to believe something when the very foundation of those beliefs have been proven wrong time and time again. But hey, I guess it comes easy when you're already ignoring the teachings/beliefs that you don't agree with or are just inconvenient for 21st century people trying to live by Bronze Age teachings.

But I guess apologists have to make a living somehow.

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If a person is moved to believe in a particular religious dogma or creed, they cannot justify it by logic only by blind faith.

That statement is an oxymoron, how can something logical be an oxymoron?

Although I agree, much of the universe such as the speed of light, quantum mechanics make no sense!

Science explains how. Religion is more concerned with why. Religion is about Faith, which is belief in the absence of absolute knowledge. Science is all about proving, whereas Religion is about accepting. "For by grace are you save through Faith, and this not of itself. It is a gift of God"

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What I find most interesting is when the original 1830 hand written copy of the Book of Mormon was presented to the printers, they brought up many errors in the spelling and asked if they should correct them. Joseph Smith who supposedly relayed what God showed him letter by letter said it was perfect as is. Since then they have corrected thousands of spelling errors. This can only lead to one of two conclusions.

1 - That Joseph Smith pulled off a scam

2 - That God doesn't know how to spell.

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What I find most interesting is when the original 1830 hand written copy of the Book of Mormon was presented to the printers, they brought up many errors in the spelling and asked if they should correct them. Joseph Smith who supposedly relayed what God showed him letter by letter said it was perfect as is. Since then they have corrected thousands of spelling errors. This can only lead to one of two conclusions.

1 - That Joseph Smith pulled off a scam

2 - That God doesn't know how to spell.

The first edition book of Mormon states Written by Joey. The 2nd edition says it is translated by Joey.

And to be fair, he was using magical rocks to look into a hat while translating and it was another man transliterating his words.

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I believed in Santa.

I believed in God.

My Mom told me they were real.

Then my mind developed.

Critical thinking for the win.

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What more confusing is there are two Mormon Churches. One is followers of Joseph Smith, the other the followers of Brigham Young.

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Logic tells me that somewhere down the line there must be a single un-caused cause. Logic necessitates that there must be a single being who is without beginning and upon which time has no meaning or affect who is the single un-caused cause. The Bible says that God is unchanging (unlike the Mormon god) and that he has been God from eternity. This is exactly what logic necessitates as being true. The God of Christianity is not an exalted man from another planet with a goddess wife. The God of Christianity has always been God and has never been anything else.

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The Mormon god was BORN? on another planet in the universe of course then who created it etc.

This leads to the problem of infinite regression, when a scientist asked an old lady what held the earth up, she said ahuge turtle and then he asked her what then held up that turtle, she said "Son it is turtles all the way down"

The real God is ever-existing creator of everything, the prime mover, the alpha point, the un- caused cause.

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The Mormon god was BORN? on another planet in the universe of course then who created it etc.

This leads to the problem of infinite regression, when a scientist asked an old lady what held the earth up, she said ahuge turtle and then he asked her what then held up that turtle, she said "Son it is turtles all the way down"

The real God is ever-existing creator of everything, the prime mover, the alpha point, the un- caused cause.

Haha I heard that in a different form.

Bit you see infinite is a bit of logic that had several hidden premises built into it. Reality usually fails to bend to human projection or logic. It is us that must Bend to it. Infinite regression simply is a construct based off of a limited existence, and misunderstanding of time. It's not science or physics. Just one of the many logical progressions. No one should ever be a logical fundamentalist. Logic is a tool like a screw driver. It works and sometimes it dosnt.

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Logic tells me that somewhere down the line there must be a single un-caused cause.

Why can there not be a "hyper-reality" beyond our universe in which the laws of cause and effect do not apply? An eternal reality? Logic does not necessitate a prime cause.

Logic necessitates that there must be a single being who is without beginning and upon which time has no meaning or affect who is the single un-caused cause.

Why must your "uncaused cause" be a being? Why must it have been a conscious entity, and not simply a natural process?

The Bible says that God is unchanging (unlike the Mormon god) and that he has been God from eternity. This is exactly what logic necessitates as being true.

No form of "logic" worthy of the name has ever necessitated that conclusion. You make far too many assumptions.

The God of Christianity is not an exalted man from another planet with a goddess wife. The God of Christianity has always been God and has never been anything else.

For the sake of pedantism, the Mormon god has many goddess wives, not just one. And also, Mormonism is a sect of Christianity, incidentally: as they of course worship Jesus Christ as the Messiah and the son of God.

Anyway, you're still making a load of assumptions. Care to corroborate any of your claims? Or are you just going to make assertions?

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The first edition book of Mormon states Written by Joey. The 2nd edition says it is translated by Joey.

And to be fair, he was using magical rocks to look into a hat while translating and it was another man transliterating his words.

Don't forget he used those same magic rocks when he ran his I can find you gold with them scheme before the Mormon bit

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I believed in Santa.

I believed in God.

My Mom told me they were real.

Then my mind developed.

Critical thinking for the win.

PH, thank god :P the Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy are still real!

As for the Mormons, the tales they tell are no taller than ANY other religions in their tales. In the end these tales were written by man, not god.

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Why can there not be a "hyper-reality" beyond our universe in which the laws of cause and effect do not apply? An eternal reality? Logic does not necessitate a prime cause.

Why must your "uncaused cause" be a being? Why must it have been a conscious entity, and not simply a natural process?

No form of "logic" worthy of the name has ever necessitated that conclusion. You make far too many assumptions.

For the sake of pedantism, the Mormon god has many goddess wives, not just one. And also, Mormonism is a sect of Christianity, incidentally: as they of course worship Jesus Christ as the Messiah and the son of God.

Anyway, you're still making a load of assumptions. Care to corroborate any of your claims? Or are you just going to make assertions?

If you knew exactly what true Christianity is, you would know that Mormonism is not Christianity, the god they believe is not Almighty God and the Jesus they believe is not Jesus, but the product of liars of the first order.

The reason Mormonism is not Christian is that it denies one or more of theessential doctrines of Christianity. Here is a basic list of what true Christianity teaches as essential doctrine according to the Bible.

Mormonism denies that there is only one God in all existence and also denies the forgiveness of sins alone in Christ alone. Therefore, it is outside Christianity. It is not a Christian religion.

Mormonism teaches . . .

Mormonism teaches that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones (D. & C. 130:22) and that Jesus is a creation who was begotten in heaven as one of God’s spirit children (See the book, Jesus the Christ, by James Talmage, p. 8). This is in strict contrast to the biblical teaching that he is God in flesh (John 1:1,14), eternal (John 1:1, 2, 15), uncreated, yet born on earth (Col. 1:15), and the creator of all (John 1:3; Col. 1:16-17). Jesus cannot be both created and not created at the same time. Though Mormonism teaches that Jesus is God in flesh, it teaches that he is "a" god in flesh, one of three gods that comprise the office of the Trinity (Articles of Faith, by Talmage, pp. 35-40). These three gods are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. This is in direct contradiction of the biblical doctrine that there is only one God (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6, 8; 45:5). See Trinity for a correct discussion of what the Trinity is (see also, false trinity)

Because Mormonism denies the biblical truth of who God is, who Jesus is, how forgiveness of sins is attained, and what the gospel is, Mormonism is not Christian.

What does Mormonism teach?

Mormon theology teaches that god is only one of countless gods, that he used to be a mere mortal man on another planet, that he became a god by following the laws and ordinances of that god on that world Lucifer, and that he brought one of his wives to this world with whom he produces spirit children who then inhabit human bodies at birth. The first earthly spirit child to be born was their illegitimate Jesus of their imagination. Second was Satan/Lucifer/Devil, and then we all followed.

Christianity makes it absolutely clear that there is only one God (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6, 8; 45:5), that God has been God eternally (Psalm 90:2)--which means he was never a man on another planet. Since the Bible denies the existence of other gods (and goddesses--there is a mother goddess in Mormonism), the idea that Jesus is the product of a physical man and human woman born illegitimately is a far from Christianity as east is from west.

It makes me think of the quote "A rose is a rose is a rose, by whatever name you call it." That is very true. Extrapolate that to Mormonism and you get the oxymoron quote of ?

Mormons say God is an animal is a rose is a plant is a god, is an animal is a mammal is a god, by any name you wish to call it.

Mormonism on the other hand says god, is was not god, but is god, but is an animal but is god, which is god, a god that is an animal, that is god, god is a mammal, god is mortal, god became a placental mammal, which now is one finite animal god, by any name you wish to name it. (Humans are after all animals placental mammals exactly like the Mormon god)

Thus according to this convoluted logic god is a finite placental mammal and came to existence by the process of evolution, and somehow crawled out of the primordial soup and became god?????????????????

Christianity says that Almighty God, is Almighty God, is Almighty God, is Almighty God, remains Almighty God , is un-created and eternal by has only one title Almighty God. Logic tells me it is impossible to have two Almighty Beings

The Jesus of Mormonism--is definitely not the same person as the Jesus of the Bible. Therefore, faith in the Mormon Jesus is faith misplaced because the Mormon Jesus doesn't and has never existed and is the product of a lying cult of the early 19th century. Mormon's was profoundly racist and people of color where not permitted to join their cult, until the 19th century when they altered their belief to keep up with the time of the modern era.

The Native American were supposed to have originated from the early Mormons some thousands of years ago and because these people disobeyed God their complexions were darkened as a punishment.(Abject nonsense)

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If you knew exactly what true Christianity is, you would know that Mormonism is not Christianity, thegod they believe is not Almighty God and the Jesus they believe is not Jesus, but the product of liars of the first order.

The reason Mormonism is not Christian is that it denies one or more of theessential doctrines of Christianity. Here is a basic list of what true Christianity teaches as essential doctrine according to the Bible.

Mormonism denies that there is only one God in all existence and also denies the forgiveness of sins alone in Christ alone. Therefore, it is outside Christianity. It is not a Christian religion.

Mormonism teaches . . .

Mormonism teaches that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones (D. & C. 130:22) and that Jesus is a creation who was begotten in heaven as one of God’s spirit children (See the book, Jesus the Christ, by James Talmage, p. 8). This is in strict contrast to the biblical teaching that he is God in flesh (John 1:1,14), eternal (John 1:1, 2, 15), uncreated, yet born on earth (Col. 1:15), and the creator of all (John 1:3; Col. 1:16-17). Jesus cannot be both created and not created at the same time. Though Mormonism teaches that Jesus is God in flesh, it teaches that he is "a" god in flesh, one of three gods that comprise the office of the Trinity (Articles of Faith, by Talmage, pp. 35-40). These three gods are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. This is in direct contradiction of the biblical doctrine that there is only one God (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6, 8; 45:5). See Trinity for a correct discussion of what the Trinity is (see also, false trinity)

Because Mormonism denies the biblical truth of who God is, who Jesus is, how forgiveness of sins is attained, and what the gospel is, Mormonism is not Christian.

What does Mormonism teach?

Mormon theology teaches that god is only one of countless gods, that he used to be a mere mortal man on another planet, that he became a god by following the laws and ordinances of that god on that world Lucifer, and that he brought one of his wives to this world with whom he produces spirit children who then inhabit human bodies at birth. The first earthly spirit child to be born was their illegitimate Jesus of their imagination. Second was Satan/Lucifer/Devil, and then we all followed.

Christianity makes it absolutely clear that there is only one God (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6, 8; 45:5), that God has been God eternally (Psalm 90:2)--which means he was never a man on another planet. Since the Bible denies the existence of other gods (and goddesses--there is a mother goddess in Mormonism), the idea that Jesus is the product of a physical man and human woman born illegitimately is a far from Christianity as east is from west.

It makes me think of the quote "A rose is a rose is a rose, by whatever name you call it." That is very true. Extrapolate that to Mormonism and you get the oxymoron quote of ?

Mormons say God is an animal is a rose is a plant is a god, is an animal is a mammal is a god, by any name you wish to call it.

Mormonism on the other hand says god, is was not god, but is god, but is an animal but is god, which is god, a god that is an animal, that is god, god is a mammal, god is mortal, god became a placental mammal, which now is one finite animal god, by any name you wish to name it. (Humans are after all animals placental mammals exactly like the Mormon god)

Thus according to this convoluted logic god is a finite placental mammal and came to existence by the process of evolution, and somehow crawled out of the primordial soup and became god?????????????????

Christianity says that Almighty God, is Almighty God, is Almighty God, is Almighty God, remains Almighty God , is un-created and eternal by has only one title Almighty God. Logic tells me it is impossible to have two Almighty Beings

The Jesus of Mormonism--is definitely not the same person as the Jesus of the Bible. Therefore, faith in the Mormon Jesus is faith misplaced because the Mormon Jesus doesn't and has never existed and is the product of a lying cult of the early 19th century. Mormon's was profoundly racist and people of color where not permitted to join their cult, until the 19th century when they altered their belief to keep up with the time of the modern era.

The Native American were supposed to have originated from the early Mormons some thousands of years ago and because these people disobeyed God their complexions were darkened as a punishment.(Abject nonsense)

This in itself is amusing. You are picking apart a religion (Mormon) for its belief structure by referring to another religion ( Christianity) that based its belief structure from the religions before it. Christians even changed the names and re-wrote stories it stole from the religions before it. Hello pot, meet kettle!

I'm not a believer in any particular religion but I do believe in being fair across the board. All modern forms of religion have written in changes to separate their self from other religions. In fact Christianity is the biggest farce with how many times " gods word" ( the bible) has been re- written and with how many ways it has branched off into so many denominations. Man created god in mans image.

Christianity preaches tolerance and yet is the first to point the finger at another religion in an effort to debunk. What a joke!

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