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F3SS

Thoughts on suicide?

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I'm talking about the deliberate kind, not accidental. I feel that it is the greatest act of selfishness one can commit. The act will terrorize the deceased's loved ones for ever. It accomplishes nothing but to escape any and all responsibility and dumps it on those left behind to deal with wether they want to or not, wether they can or not. Nobody deserves to be put through that. It's horribly unnecessary.

I've been censored and condemned to hell in another thread for voicing that opinion. I hope a dedicated thread is ok. All I want to know is how other people feel about it. Please do not mention names of those guilty of the act, famous or otherwise.

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There are so many reasons that people take their own lives that it is impossible to find an all encompassing reason, or judgement. I imagine leaving loved ones behind would have to be the hardest part.

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Fess i think alot of it is because you probably have a family and your looking at it from a fathers prospective instead of trying to look at it from the perspective of the person who commits the act

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I'm talking about the deliberate kind, not accidental. I feel that it is the greatest act of selfishness one can commit. The act will terrorize the deceased's loved ones for ever. It accomplishes nothing but to escape any and all responsibility and dumps it on those left behind to deal with wether they want to or not, wether they can or not. Nobody deserves to be put through that. It's horribly unnecessary.

I've been censored and condemned to hell in another thread for voicing that opinion. I hope a dedicated thread is ok. All I want to know is how other people feel about it. Please do not mention names of those guilty of the act, famous or otherwise.

Hes not an Empath huh?hahaha :whistle:

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I used to dream about it often.

I still at times romanticize about it... but not as much as I did when I was young.

i used to even write songs about it..

what saved me? the power of Magic..it's so amazing and learn and use more everyday..

nothing made me feel so alive like magic !

Then again I think I p*** people off more by staying. So like the guy in Falling Down who didn't want to leave the store..

when the owner told him Go! .. I say like him... I think I'll stay.. what do you think of that ?

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All I know is the human mind is complicated, driven by passions and fears, hormones and endorphins, shaped by genetics, environment, events singular and mundane. It's very hard to quantify what drives a person to suicide. It could be a selfish act, it could also be an act of pure desperation in a mind not thinking clearly. It does, of course, hurt others as Mr. William's suicide will attest to, but it's difficult to be concerned with the feelings of others if your mind is not thinking clearly because of deep depression and fear. Sometimes the most talented people seem to be the most prone to these feelings. It's perhaps not unexpected in people that live a life of excesses, where substance and other abuses get out of control, like John Belushi or Jimi Hendrix. Deliberate acts are harder to understand but, perhaps these individuals just have trouble coping with life at a level most of us consider "normal," (whatever that is) or have a fear of failure or rejection, of just feel like they will never fit in.

As Don McClean sang of Vincent Van Gogh:

"And when no hope was left in sight,

On that starry, starry night,

You took you, life as lovers often do.

But I could have told you Vincent,

This world was never meant for

One as beautiful as you."

I pray no one here has to suffer the loss of a friend or family member to suicide.

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I believe many of us struggled with these kinds of thoughts at least once in our lifetime. Luckily for many, they are only thoughts and not actions.

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People, I mentioned a few times in the other thread that I do in fact have a pretty close and personal experience in my family with the subject. It happened only a few months ago. The only thing selfish about that statement is how I call it personal. It was, is, but not nearly to the degree of how personal it is to his wife and kids. That's about all the detail I should share on here but I do have a say in the matter.

Someone said it's selfish of me to want someone to pull through the darkness and keep on living. Why? Would it be selfish if I had caught someone about to end it all and I stopped them? Is it selfish of a wife and kids to do what they can to keep their dad/husband around, or any similar scenario? I don't think so.

MrBene, good for you. Perhaps you aren't feeling great about life but I'm going to guess there is someone or many people who are glad you are around still. You are being completely selfless. It might suck but you'll leave a far more respectable memory for those left behind when your natural time comes.

Edited by F3SS
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A couple times in my life I've been close.

These thought/emotion cycles gain inertia and become self-sustaining.

Thought instigates emotional response, engenders a similar thought that reinforces the emotion and the cycle grows and deepens.

Sometimes we find an 'interrupt signal' that will help to snap us out. Other times, the cycle can roll on for months or years.

It's an insidious process that can become an oppressive pattern that shuts down rational thought, or the ability to see a way out.

I've heard most suicides are not elaborately planned out, but take place within a few minutes of the idea to act. I've always tried to remember not to make any permanent decisions about a temporary issue, but in the grips of the beast, that can be laughable.

My sincere empathy and love to anyone lost in this...

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The only people I ever see call it selfish are the people who have not experienced it.

I am not going to get into details of my very intimate experience with having a best friend shoot himself spartan, but you are WRONG. You have your opinion about it but that's just you. Some have also experienced the devastation one person committing this selfish act has on not just their immediate family but hundreds of others as well.

By saying they were not in their right mind and couldn't help it because their judgement was impaired I may as well say that a drunks judgement is impaired so they shouldn't be held responsible for driving and killing someone. Many alcoholics are depressed as well so lets just tag tat on as well. They couldn't help themselves from drinking because they were self medication their depression.

Some peoples weak mindset maddens me. A while back I related to people on this web site that I pulled a jumper off of a bridge on my way to work one morning. There was more than one idiot here who actually told me that I probably should have let him jump because saving him wouldn't do anything to make his life more bearable. Holy crap you've got to be kidding me?!?!?!

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People, I mentioned a few times in the other thread that I do in fact have a pretty close and personal experience in my family with the subject. It happened only a few months ago. The only thing selfish about that statement is how I call it personal. It was, is, but not nearly to the degree of how personal it is to his wife and kids. That's about all the detail I should share on here but I do have a say in the matter.

Someone said it's selfish of me to want someone to pull through the darkness and keep on living. Why? Would it be selfish if I had caught someone about to end it all and I stopped them? Is it selfish of a wife and kids to do what they can to keep their dad/husband around, or any similar scenario? I don't think so.

MrBene, good for you. Perhaps you aren't feeling great about life but I'm going to guess there is someone or many people who are glad you are around still. You are being completely selfless. It might suck but you'll leave a far more respectable memory for those left behind when your natural time comes.

Despite the people who have come down on you, it's not an unreasonable position you are in, I think you are anything but alone in that thought. Expressing it allows others to open up avenues you may not have considered, and as I said, when the number of reasons become apparent to one, it becomes obvious there is no one way to rationalise or judge suicide. It's a very complex issue that cannot have one answer to any aspect of it.

Taking the step to understand further shows you are putting more thought into this than some may realise. And is is best to start with personal perspective for the greatest understanding.

There is a suicide forest in Japan, people go there specifically to end their lives. I think they find about 30-40 people a year there.

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I am not going to get into details of my very intimate experience with having a best friend shoot himself spartan, but you are WRONG. You have your opinion about it but that's just you. Some have also experienced the devastation one person committing this selfish act has on not just their immediate family but hundreds of others as well.

There can be no one right or wrong in this instance I think. Too many factors at play.

By saying they were not in their right mind and couldn't help it because their judgement was impaired I may as well say that a drunks judgement is impaired so they shouldn't be held responsible for driving and killing someone. Many alcoholics are depressed as well so lets just tag tat on as well. They couldn't help themselves from drinking because they were self medication their depression.

But that is self inflicted, the reasons people take their lives often are not. And I think that is the most of it.

Some peoples weak mindset maddens me. A while back I related to people on this web site that I pulled a jumper off of a bridge on my way to work one morning. There was more than one idiot here who actually told me that I probably should have let him jump because saving him wouldn't do anything to make his life more bearable. Holy crap you've got to be kidding me?!?!?!

I agree with you, that is insane, we are supposed to help others, and people with problems are lucky that people like you exist, how many lives might be saved because people like you take the time to stop and help? I think it was a brave and very decent community action. Something you should be holding your head up over IMHO.

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I am not going to get into details of my very intimate experience with having a best friend shoot himself spartan, but you are WRONG. You have your opinion about it but that's just you. Some have also experienced the devastation one person committing this selfish act has on not just their immediate family but hundreds of others as well.

By saying they were not in their right mind and couldn't help it because their judgement was impaired I may as well say that a drunks judgement is impaired so they shouldn't be held responsible for driving and killing someone. Many alcoholics are depressed as well so lets just tag tat on as well. They couldn't help themselves from drinking because they were self medication their depression.

Some peoples weak mindset maddens me. A while back I related to people on this web site that I pulled a jumper off of a bridge on my way to work one morning. There was more than one idiot here who actually told me that I probably should have let him jump because saving him wouldn't do anything to make his life more bearable. Holy crap you've got to be kidding me?!?!?!

First off a person who commits suicide isn't trying to kill someone else. Comparing it to a drunk driver who is being irresponsible by putting others at risk is a bad comparison.

Put yourself in someone's shoes. You life is horrible. You have no hope that anything is ever going to get better. It isnt. At least in your mind. But yet your selfish for wanting to end your suffering because it might make a few people sad for alittel while.

Tell me in that situation who is really being selfish?

And by all means help the guy on the bridge but if he jumps don't tell him he is a selfish coward for it

Edited by spartan max2
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I think it takes a lot of courage to do it! Selfish and cowardly for sure!

Edited by qxcontinuum

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I'm talking about the deliberate kind, not accidental.

What exactly do you mean by accidental suicide?

I hope a dedicated thread is ok.

Considering you were told to do just that, it would be silly to assume it wasn't.

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First off a person who commits suicide isn't trying to kill someone else. Comparing it to a drunk driver who is being irresponsible by putting others at risk is a bad comparison.

Put yourself in someone's shoes. You life is horrible. You have no hope that anything is ever going to get better. It isnt. At least in your mind. But yet your selfish for wanting to end your suffering because it might make a few people sad for alittel while.

Tell me in that situation who is really being selfish?

And by all means help the guy on the bridge but if he jumps don't tell him he is a selfish coward for it

When I was faced with this decision it was clear to me that I WAS a burden on family members. I agree with the sentiment that the pain for them would be transient. My family seemed unable or unwilling to help me even though it HAD to be obvious that my life was shattered and I probably was considering ending it. The worst part of the aftermath for them would have been a realization (if they chose to admit it) that they could have done more to help and chose not to. Ultimately though, I simply could NOT burden my daughter with it. My life is better today in that I came so close and now I value the days more. The depression is something that simply cannot be adequately explained - it must be experienced for a person to understand the sheer darkness when there is a total lack of hope. With hope a person can fight their way through almost anything. Without it, anything can seem too enormous to live with.
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My issue with suicide is the pointlessness of it all. It's an emotionally made decision, and I find that 9 times out of 10 those are the wrong way to go. Death is just so obnoxiously final, you're taking away any chance for you to turn things around. As long as you're alive there's possibilities and opportunities.

But, no one said depression was a rational thing to deal with.

Ultimately about opinions on it, I don't have any. Life gets dark sometimes, and people will make their decisions. Right and wrong, whatever those are get very muddy when you objectively look at a persons life and see they had a home and family etc, and they still feel so empty they chose not to live. Is it better they struggle with those feelings forever and deal with all the aspects therein, including the stuff they'd put their family through? Or is it kinder to remove oneself from the equation entirely?

When one's rationality is overwhelmed by hopelessness, and its either that, or nonexistence, I can theoretically understand why nonexistence would be preferable.

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