I know what you saw.

[Sabbath]

Don't forget sleep paralysis.

[psyche101]

Psyche drank it all.

[Astra.]

I'm taking a different approach to this. Let's begin.

Birds

Flare

Lense flare

Typical or experimental aircraft

Weather balloon

Satellite

Swamp gas

Dirty ass

A lady named Alice the goon

Lenticular clouds

Comet

Meteor

The planet Venus

And of course ball lightning

Any more please contribute.

Hello Kurzweil sweetie,

Since you started this thread I Know What "You" Saw ..would you be so kind, and explain to me what I saw.

I wouldn't normally ask....but hey! you seem very smart

From "I Know What I Saw" thread.

- It was 2011 on a warm summer evening when we took our regular leisurely walk.

I was thinking what a clear night it was, when I noticed 3 round bright lights that were very high up in the night sky.

At first they were slowly moving in unison....one behind the other.

Then one of them separated from the other two at an enormous speed and then stopped and stayed motionless.

The other two stayed close together for a while...until one of them also shot off at an astounding speed, and then also suddenly stopped and remained motionless.

After this, the three lights seemed to be at a huge distance from each other, while all seemed to remain in a hovering state.

Suddenly, the first one that broke away from the other two earlier, sped off and simply vanished.....followed quickly by the other two that also disappeared.

Btw, all of this lasted between 6-8 minutes. Two other cars also pulled up on the side of the road to watch this.

There was no sound coming from these moving lights. It was like they were playing with each other....there was a definate intelligence of sorts going on with these lights.

Sorry people, no camera at hand at the time.....and nooo! I have no idea what they were.....but I and others know that we saw something very unusual on that warm evening-

[Skep B]

I have a theory as to the answer, but I would like to know where you were, in general terms, when you saw this.

By general terms I don't need a town obviously, but state, or so would be helpful.

[Imaginarynumber1]

Hello Kurzweil sweetie,

Since you started this thread I Know What "You" Saw ..would you be so kind, and explain to me what I saw.

I wouldn't normally ask....but hey! you seem very smart

From "I Know What I Saw" thread.

- It was 2011 on a warm summer evening when we took our regular leisurely walk.

I was thinking what a clear night it was, when I noticed 3 round bright lights that were very high up in the night sky.

At first they were slowly moving in unison....one behind the other.

Then one of them separated from the other two at an enormous speed and then stopped and stayed motionless.

The other two stayed close together for a while...until one of them also shot off at an astounding speed, and then also suddenly stopped and remained motionless.

After this, the three lights seemed to be at a huge distance from each other, while all seemed to remain in a hovering state.

Suddenly, the first one that broke away from the other two earlier, sped off and simply vanished.....followed quickly by the other two that also disappeared.

Btw, all of this lasted between 6-8 minutes. Two other cars also pulled up on the side of the road to watch this.

There was no sound coming from these moving lights. It was like they were playing with each other....there was a definate intelligence of sorts going on with these lights.

Sorry people, no camera at hand at the time.....and nooo! I have no idea what they were.....but I and others know that we saw something very unusual on that warm evening-

Sounds like skydivers with flares.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

my two favorites,,, all time.

2. "It was a tethering balloon" (Battle over LA)

1. "You saw swamp gas"!! (Cleveland lights)

[Astra.]

I have a theory as to the answer, but I would like to know where you were, in general terms, when you saw this.

By general terms I don't need a town obviously, but state, or so would be helpful.

Aww, well thanks SB...but considering you filled in one of the more general possibilities in your post as - "mental illness"- concerning this here thread.

Hmm!...well...I think I'll give your theory a big fat miss

Besides...I'd prefer the OP's opinion....since he kicked off this thread

[Skep B]

Aww, well thanks SB...but considering you filled in one of the more general possibilities in your post as - "mental illness"- concerning this here thread.

Hmm!...well...I think I'll give your theory a big fat miss

Besides...I'd prefer the OP's opinion....since he kicked off this thread

Hahaha, ok thats fair.

for what its worth mental illness was semi snarky.

unless the aw was snarky in itself, in which case

Well played

[Astra.]

Sounds like skydivers with flares.

[media=]

[/media]

Thank you Imaginary ....but these lights were round in circumference, and were not exhibiting any flare burning smoke trails...they also moved at exceptional speeds.

Nice clip btw...wow! what a buzz that would be.... to skydive at night....with burning flares in tow.

Hopefully, the fire brigade and an ambulance wouldn't be too far away

[Imaginarynumber1]

Thank you Imaginary ....but these lights were round in circumference, and were not exhibiting any flare burning smoke trails...they also moved at exceptional speeds.

Nice clip btw...wow! what a buzz that would be.... to skydive at night....with burning flares in tow.

Hopefully, the fire brigade and an ambulance wouldn't be too far away

People see weird things in the sky all the time. Sometimes it's easy to puzzle out, sometimes it's not.

I don't know what you saw, but don't dismiss it as otherworldly and give up on trying to figure it out. That's half the fun.

[psyche101]

my two favorites,,, all time.

2. "It was a tethering balloon" (Battle over LA)

1. "You saw swamp gas"!! (Cleveland lights)

Do you realise where the "swamp gas" term originated and was first derrided?

It was the same day UFOlogy shot itself in the foot.

[lost_shaman]

Do you realise where the "swamp gas" term originated and was first derrided?

It was the same day UFOlogy shot itself in the foot.

I'm curious as to how you see all ufo research was doomed forever by o

ne statment that any skeptic here might make on a weekly basis?

Edited August 26, 2014 by lost_shaman

[ChrLzs]

my two favorites,,, all time.

2. "It was a tethering balloon" (Battle over LA)

1. "You saw swamp gas"!! (Cleveland lights)

Ahhhh yes...

- we skeptics always offer them as the explanation..

- they never get old..

(nor funny..)

[ChrLzs]

As for my question, I was simply making what I think was the OP's point.

All the things in that list (I'd leave out swamp gas ...) with barely one exception (ball lightning) are things that I can hold / show / document / prove beyond reasonable doubt. They exist, thus are potential candidates in a scientific examination. Alien spacecraft may well exist way, way out there... but can you show me actual evidence of one, here in Earth's vicinity? Pink unicorns, MDE's, faeries etc are all equally valid if you loosen the rules to accept anything.

[Sweetpumper]

experimental aircraft

That would be the closest explanation for mine but I'd have to see this tech in action because it's just not possible with our current known aircraft.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

Do you realise where the "swamp gas" term originated and was first derrided?

It was the same day UFOlogy shot itself in the foot.

Here's the problem, one UFO story shown to be a hoax,,, ten million more to go, for *you*, because one phony case, contrary to your popular opinion, does *not* mean all UFO stories a hoaxes

And no, I don't, enlighten me.

People held the US government up to be impaled on that one. Months and months of UFO sightings in Cleveland over Lake Erie and the military blows them all of as "Swamp Gas". the government shot themselves in the foot.

Trust me, Psyche101, that was the day a lot OF Americans said "F U" to the government,

[psyche101]

I'm curious as to how you see all ufo research was doomed forever by o

ne statment that any skeptic here might make on a weekly basis?

Hi Mate

I think "doomed forever" is a bit harsh, it's a stupid mistake that UFO proponents insist on repeating. J Allen Hynek was the best friend UFOlogy had yet was rather taken aback by the reaction from the people and tried to explain that his hypothesis for some of the 1966 Michigan sightings was not inclusive of all phenomena. Yet the UFO people laughed at him - which I have to say this reminds me of shades of Phoenix - when he tried to explain that the hypothesis only was ever supposed to account for a portion of sightings. He then found himself disillusioned at the small minds who could only focus on thje words "Swamp gas" as people still do in a derrisive way today. J Allen was UFOlogy's greatest friend, after that day he saw it in a differnt light.

In late March 1966, in Michigan, two days of mass UFO sightings were reported, and received significant publicity. After studying the reports, Hynek offered a provisional hypothesis for some of the sightings: a few of about 100 witnesses had mistaken swamp gas for something more spectacular. At the press conference where he made his announcement, Hynek repeatedly and strenuously made the qualification[clarification needed] that swamp gas was a plausible explanation for only a portion of the Michigan UFO reports, and certainly not for UFO reports in general. But much to his chagrin, Hynek's qualifications were largely overlooked, and the words "swamp gas" were repeated ad infinitum in relation to UFO reports. The explanation was subject to national derision.

LINK

Rather than "doomed forever" it seems more a milestone where UFOlogy has let itself, and others down. Such as McDonald halting Klass' plasma research in favour of chasing little green men. Each time I hear the words "swamp gas" uttered, I can only think of how UFOlogy turned on Hynek and pushed him in other directions, which in the long run it turns out seems to have been a good thing overall. Proponents today still quote him in hopes of being considered credible, but tend to mess up his quotes so badly they work against them. To me, propnents that continue to utter the term "swamp gas" I feel only compund that original ignorance and knee jerk reaction to a rational UFO explaination.

Edited August 26, 2014 by psyche101

[psyche101]

Here's the problem, one UFO story shown to be a hoax,,, ten million more to go, for *you*, because one phony case, contrary to your popular opinion, does *not* mean all UFO stories a hoaxes

And no, I don't, enlighten me.

People held the US government up to be impaled on that one. Months and months of UFO sightings in Cleveland over Lake Erie and the military blows them all of as "Swamp Gas". the government shot themselves in the foot.

Trust me, Psyche101, that was the day a lot OF Americans said "F U" to the government,

I just explained it to LS, no need to enlighten you LOL

The term originated when UFOlogy coined it and lost it's greatest ally all in one hit. Everytime I hear the term used, it reminds me of a huge failure on the part of UFOlogy and that people who use it (no offence) do not have a good grasp of the history of UFOlogy. If they knew it cheesed of UFO's greatest ally to date then I don't think people would bandy it about so readily. It honestly seems something UFOlogy ought to be ashamed of, but UFOlogy has no shame.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

Ok, Psyche...

"At the press conference where he made his announcement, Hynek repeatedly and strenuously made the qualification[clarification needed] that swamp gas was a plausible explanation for only a portion of the Michigan UFO reports,"

This man is a COMPLETE fool.

After several months, with the many sightings by many witnesses, people wanted an EXPLANATION.

They don't want to hear what COULD be for the few, they want to know what the ones that were quite clear were.

Another thing. If the majority of sightings were genuine UFO's, then guess what - the ones that could be "swamp gas", most likely were UFO's, too.

The man blew it. He should have gotten right down to what people wanted to hear discussed, and no, "might be swamp gas" is not it. He should have talked about the ones that were NOT swamp gas.

but I guess he had other things to do

[badeskov]

<snip>

Another thing. If the majority of sightings were genuine UFO's, then guess what - the ones that could be "swamp gas", most likely were UFO's, too.

<snip>

Can you please in your own words define what you mean by a "genuine UFO"? The reason for asking is because I am getting a feeling that you are using that term rather dishonestly because you simply don't have a means to defend your system of belief. You are, by all means of respect, simply blabbering.

Cheers,

Badeskov

[psyche101]

Ok, Psyche...

"At the press conference where he made his announcement, Hynek repeatedly and strenuously made the qualification[clarification needed] that swamp gas was a plausible explanation for only a portion of the Michigan UFO reports,"

This man is a COMPLETE fool.

After several months, with the many sightings by many witnesses, people wanted an EXPLANATION.

They don't want to hear what COULD be for the few, they want to know what the ones that were quite clear were.

Another thing. If the majority of sightings were genuine UFO's, then guess what - the ones that could be "swamp gas", most likely were UFO's, too.

The man blew it. He should have gotten right down to what people wanted to hear discussed, and no, "might be swamp gas" is not it. He should have talked about the ones that were NOT swamp gas.

but I guess he had other things to do

He did have other things to do, science. He was asked to attend this sighting and explain it. That is what he did.

Do you know who J Allen Hynek actually is? Described as "The Father of UFOlogy" and founder of MUFON he was loved by UFO proponents worldwide because he dared to push the Government and USAF and say that the weak explainations of planets and stars for UFO sightings did not cut the mustard and that the phenomena required serious investigation. He desribed the investigations to date as a joke and said all the Government wanted to do was brush it off. Which seems to fit in very well with Lost Shamans Roswell Intel Op's hypothesis. He did not know what the "other" UFO's were comprised of and did not make a guess. Scientists simply do not do that Earl, they never just make crap up on the spot to appease the masses and tell them what they want to hear. That is the role of the media. What he did was his job. He was asked to qualify the sightings, and qualified that which he could. Why did the people ask a professional for answers if they already had the ones they wanted? This is Phoenix all over again. Nobody wants to hear anything other and the words "Alien visit" Lets be honest here Earl. Would you call in a plumber and when he tells you why your dunny is blocked you would re-evaluate his report and then tell him he is wrong and make fun of him? That's pretty much exactly what happened here.

LINK - Wikipdia J Allen Hynek

LINK #2

Link #3 Astronomers do see UFO's

LINK #4 - J Allen Hynek Bio

I did not agree with everything he said, he is human, but a good man with an honest outlook. Most UFOlogists would tar and feather you for your comments and consider him to be "still on their side". That he forced honest and open investigations of UFO's and stood up for the ETH at one point gave UFOlogy more credibility than the rest of it tied together and folded over. UFOlogy owes this man a lot.

I think you will like what he has to say here (which I bet rags to riches some people misinterpret)

"Ridicule is not part of the scientific method, and people should not be taught that it is. The steady flow of reports, often made in concert by reliable observers, raises questions of scientific obligation and responsibility. Is there ... any residue that is worthy of scientific attention? Or, if there isn't, does not an obligation exist to say so to the public—not in words of open ridicule but seriously, to keep faith with the trust the public places in science and scientists?" (Emphasis in original)[4]

From that Wiki link I left above.

And this from the 4th link:

In due course Dr. Hynek became disenchanted with the intentions and methodology of the Air Force. When Project Blue Book was closed, he voiced this concern, continued his work privately and eventually founded the Center for UFO Studies (CUFOS) in 1973. By then Dr. Hynek had executed a 180 degree turn in his views on the subject - one of the most famous such reversals in history.

No matter what you think, he was an intrumental figure in UFOlogy, and UFOlogy owes him a great deal. IMHO, he was the first person to give the subject general credibility.

Edited August 26, 2014 by psyche101

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

Can you please in your own words define what you mean by a "genuine UFO"? The reason for asking is because I am getting a feeling that you are using that term rather dishonestly because you simply don't have a means to defend your system of belief. You are, by all means of respect, simply blabbering.

Cheers,

Badeskov

Unidentified Flying Object. It is already defined, and no, "swamp gas" is not a flying object

Badeskov, If many witnesses claim they saw 20 blackhawk choppers over lake Erie one night, and then again, several times more - same thing, about 20 blackhawks seen flying over Lake Erie, and then one joker comes along and says, "I got it all figured out, in the 3rd sighting, one of those objects could be explained off as a blimp"

What the BLEEP would you say? I would tell that idiot to shut up and go home.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Earl.Of.Trumps

[badeskov]

Unidentified Flying Object. It is already defined, and no, "swamp gas" is not a flying object

Who said it ever was? It was used for one sighting for which it was relevant and has subsequently been used by UFOlogists to ridicule other explanations, even though the swamp gas hypothesis was perfectly valid in the one case it was proposed.

Badeskov, If many witnesses claim they saw 20 blackhawk choppers over lake Erie one night, and then again, several times more - same thing, about 20 blackhawks seen flying over Lake Erie, and then one joker comes along and says, "I got it all figured out, in the 3rd sighting, one of those objects could be explained off as a blimp"

What the BLEEP would you say? I would tell that idiot to shut up and go home.

Of course I would too. But you don't have many witnesses. You and others have consistently failed to reference these many witnesses, although it is not for lack of asking. And that is the disease that is perpetuating modern UFOlogy. The eagerness to take on fantastic claims without looking into their veracity - probably because most don't want to.

Cheers,

Badeskov

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

Who said it ever was?(swamp gas=flying object) It was used for one sighting for which it was relevant and has subsequently been used by UFOlogists to ridicule other explanations, even though the swamp gas hypothesis was perfectly valid in the one case it was proposed.

It is frustrating trying to say what I want, but, although it may be true that "swamp gas" was appropriate for the few, but people are awaiting for a real explanation and that SG answer is viewed as a terrible stalling tactic. Really misplaced. It's like you telling me that some of the three hundred holes in all my windows *may* have been there all along, and offer no explanation for the devestation of the hundreds of wholes left unexplained, and I am not sure even that is a good analogy.

Of course I would too. But you don't have many witnesses. You and others have consistently failed to reference these many witnesses, although it is not for lack of asking. And that is the disease that is perpetuating modern UFOlogy. The eagerness to take on fantastic claims without looking into their veracity - probably because most don't want to.

Cheers,

Badeskov

Hot damn, man! for hundreds of thousands of people to see these "things" on many nights over many months, don't you think one of their politicians should step UP and say SOMETHING of value to the people...? Is that so hard?

What the hell do they get paid for?

Same thing with the Lights over Phoenix. A million people are going ballistic. Not ONE federal rep or senator ever said a damn thing, in two states, and same thing in Mexico.

Come on. Enough to make ya barf.

the politicians show up on pay day, go away on work day.

[badeskov]

It is frustrating trying to say what I want, but, although it may be true that "swamp gas" was appropriate for the few, but people are awaiting for a real explanation and that SG answer is viewed as a terrible stalling tactic. Really misplaced. It's like you telling me that some of the three hundred holes in all my windows *may* have been there all along, and offer no explanation for the devestation of the hundreds of wholes left unexplained, and I am not sure even that is a good analogy.

Seriously, are you even familiar with the one case it was proposed in and why it was appropriate? I don't believe so, as what you state above makes no sense whatsoever.

Hot damn, man! for hundreds of thousands of people to see these "things" on many nights over many months, don't you think one of their politicians should step UP and say SOMETHING of value to the people...? Is that so hard?

What the hell do they get paid for?

And exactly why should they? Should they also comment when people claim to see Big Foot, ghosts, werewolves etc? You have got to kidding.

Same thing with the Lights over Phoenix. A million people are going ballistic.

A million people? No, that is UFOlogy in a nutshell because people want to believe the fantastic instead of spending the time to know the mundane. Your claim is outright ridiculous and you are illustrating why popular UFOlogy is a joke.

Not ONE federal rep or senator ever said a damn thing, in two states, and same thing in Mexico.

And why should they? Nothing to talk about. A-10s on training exercises.

Come on. Enough to make ya barf.

the politicians show up on pay day, go away on work day.

You really think they have the time to comment on already debunked ramblings?

Cheers,

Badeskov