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markdohle

We do have a spirit

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We do have a spirit

No matter what ones religious belief, or lack of, we do have a Spirit that needs to be attended to. The Spirit within each of us is made for joy, love, happiness.... if we do not develop our inner life we will look for other avenues to attain what we most desire....what we are made for. When we self-medicate it is only a help for a short time and in the long run can become just another hurdle that needs to be overcome. The more we seek to escape pain at all cost, the stronger its embrace.

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Posted (edited)

We do have a spirit

No matter what ones religious belief, or lack of, we do have a Spirit that needs to be attended to. The Spirit within each of us is made for joy, love, happiness.... if we do not develop our inner life we will look for other avenues to attain what we most desire....what we are made for. When we self-medicate it is only a help for a short time and in the long run can become just another hurdle that needs to be overcome. The more we seek to escape pain at all cost, the stronger its embrace.

Yeah we do but the word is per se used as an embellishment for the breath of life which was breathed into our nostrils when man was first formed from the clay of the earth according to the Genesis allegory of creation. (Gen. 2:7) That's when man became a living soul. Now. don't just go and say we have a soul because we don't. Soul is the combination of body with the breath of life. We became a soul. To become is to be and not to have. At the death of man, the body goes back to the dust and the breath of life aka the spirit goes back to God Who gave it. (Eccles. 12:7) The expression "goes back to God" is also an embellishment for "it is gone.."

Edited by Ben Masada

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Yeah we do but the word is per se used as an embellishment for the breath of life which was breathed into our nostrils when man was first formed from the clay of the earth according to the Genesis allegory of creation. (Gen. 2:7) That's when man became a living soul. Now. don't just go and say we have a soul because we don't. Soul is the combination of body with the breath of life. We became a soul. To become is to be and not to have. At the death of man, the body goes back to the dust and the breath of life aka the spirit goes back to God Who gave it. (Eccles. 12:7) The expression "goes back to God" is also an embellishment for "it is gone.."

Thanks for sharing. Many Christians will agree with that, not all. Though the resurrection will reunite body and soul, so in the Christian faith humanity is not something to be bypassed or grown beyond, but a state to be perfected.

Peace

mark

Thanks for sharing, but we do have a spirit

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Thanks for sharing. Many Christians will agree with that, not all. Though the resurrection will reunite body and soul, so in the Christian faith humanity is not something to be bypassed or grown beyond, but a state to be perfected.

Thanks for sharing, but we do have a spirit.

I thought all Christians would agree with that but, with regards to the resurrection, it is a Hellenist doctrine adopted by Christianity which has nothing to do with Judaism. I agree that the aim of all states is to be perfected but, not by contradicting the only Scriptures Jesus used to refer to as the Word of God. Therefore, the doctrine of resurrection has no place in those Scriptures. (Isa. 26:14; II Sam. 12:23; Job 10:21) No one once dead will ever return. That's what the Word of God says.

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What does "spirit" mean outside of its religious definition? Joyful, loving, moral strength of mind, perhaps?

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I thought all Christians would agree with that but, with regards to the resurrection, it is a Hellenist doctrine adopted by Christianity which has nothing to do with Judaism. I agree that the aim of all states is to be perfected but, not by contradicting the only Scriptures Jesus used to refer to as the Word of God. Therefore, the doctrine of resurrection has no place in those Scriptures. (Isa. 26:14; II Sam. 12:23; Job 10:21) No one once dead will ever return. That's what the Word of God says.

The resurrection was not expected. When Jesus died his followers scattered, what brought them back was the Resurrection of Jesus.

The only reason the New Testament was written was because of the reality of the risen Lord. If that were not the case, Christianity makes no sense at all.

Peace

mark

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What does "spirit" mean outside of its religious definition? Joyful, loving, moral strength of mind, perhaps?

Spirit is the breathe of God. Self consciousness. It is not dependent on being joyful, loving or having moral strength, it is something we have because are made in the image and likeness of God.

Peace

Mark

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Spirit is the breathe of God. Self consciousness. It is not dependent on being joyful, loving or having moral strength, it is something we have because are made in the image and likeness of God.

This doesn't answer my question, and since this is the Philosophy and Psychology Forum, there must be some definition of the term outside of the term's religious connotations that pertain to the philosophy or psychology of human beings.

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I have a brain which makes connections evey minute of everyday until I die. I try and enrich my life with different activicties and be a good person. For me there is no spirit.

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This doesn't answer my question, and since this is the Philosophy and Psychology Forum, there must be some definition of the term outside of the term's religious connotations that pertain to the philosophy or psychology of human beings.

I understand your point my friend. However being a theist, God is not just a theological question, but can be dealt with on other levels, philosophy being one of them.

Peace

Mark

Edited by markdohle

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I have a brain which makes connections evey minute of everyday until I die. I try and enrich my life with different activicties and be a good person. For me there is no spirit.

Well said, to the point, refreshing.

Peace

Mark

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What does "spirit" mean outside of its religious definition? Joyful, loving, moral strength of mind, perhaps?

A mood, a peaceful state of mind, any kind of mental disposition, emanations in general. Any thing can be embellished with the word spirit.

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The resurrection was not expected. When Jesus died his followers scattered, what brought them back was the Resurrection of Jesus.

The only reason the New Testament was written was because of the reality of the risen Lord. If that were not the case, Christianity makes no sense at all.

Peace

mark

That's interesting: You say above that what brought the disciples back was the resurrection of Jesus. The news that was given to all of them by the women who had gone to the tomb very early Sunday morning and was not believed but even taken as idle words of nonsense as if they were talking about a fictional imagination. (Luke 24:11) It only means that Jesus had never spoken any thing to them about such a thing which makes sense btw, since they were all Jews and bodily resurrection is unheard of in Judaism. Reality of the risen Lord! Did you know that Paul confessed to his disciple Timothy that it was according to his - Paul's - gospel that Jesus had resurrected? (II Tim. 2:8) Do you have any idea of what this really says? That there was another gospel at the time, in whose agenda the resurrection of Jesus was not an item of. Soon enough he found out that it was the very gospel of the Apostles of Jesus. Paul listened to them and concluded that they were preaching a different gospel about a different Jesus and, for that matter, he considered them false apostles. (II Cor. 11:4-6, 13) Amazing, isn't it?

Edited by Ben Masada

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A mood, a peaceful state of mind, any kind of mental disposition, emanations in general. Any thing can be embellished with the word spirit.

Good definition. I also think happy children are a good definition of spirit. A spirit of joy and of loving.

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That's interesting: You say above that what brought the disciples back was the resurrection of Jesus. The news that was given to all of them by the women who had gone to the tomb very early Sunday morning and was not believed but even taken as idle words of nonsense as if they were talking about a fictional imagination. (Luke 24:11) It only means that Jesus had never spoken any thing to them about such a thing which makes sense btw, since they were all Jews and bodily resurrection is unheard of in Judaism. Reality of the risen Lord! Did you know that Paul confessed to his disciple Timothy that it was according to his - Paul's - gospel that Jesus had resurrected? (II Tim. 2:8) Do you have any idea of what this really says? That there was another gospel at the time, in whose agenda the resurrection of Jesus was not an item of. Soon enough he found out that it was the very gospel of the Apostles of Jesus. Paul listened to them and concluded that they were preaching a different gospel about a different Jesus and, for that matter, he considered them false apostles. (II Cor. 11:4-6, 13) Amazing, isn't it?

Women were not accepted as wittiness, so perhaps that is why they were not believed. Yet on Pentecost, those men who were cowering came froth to proclaim the Risen Lord. You don't have to believe it, but that is the central message of my faith. As Paul said, If Christ has not risen then our faith is in vain. They died for the gospel. Men will die for what the believe to be true, even if it is not. However men will not die for what they know is not true. Peter died a horrible death proclaiming the reality of the Risen Lord. The Christen faith exploded on the scene right after Jesus died, the explanation is the Resurrection. That is the whole point of the New Testament. Paul wrote his epistles early, so at the time there were many who experienced the appearance of Jesus....he mentioned 500. I am sure they spoke to many about this.

Read this if you have time. Not to convince you, just to read and understand the reason Christian believe in the Resurrection.

http://ntwrightpage.com/Wright_Jesus_Resurrection.htm

And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. (1 Cor 15:17)

Peace

Mark

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Good definition. I also think happy children are a good definition of spirit. A spirit of joy and of loving.

Great SMK, I see that you got the idea.

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Women were not accepted as wittiness, so perhaps that is why they were not believed. Yet on Pentecost, those men who were cowering came froth to proclaim the Risen Lord. You don't have to believe it, but that is the central message of my faith. As Paul said, If Christ has not risen then our faith is in vain. They died for the gospel. Men will die for what the believe to be true, even if it is not. However men will not die for what they know is not true. Peter died a horrible death proclaiming the reality of the Risen Lord. The Christen faith exploded on the scene right after Jesus died, the explanation is the Resurrection. That is the whole point of the New Testament. Paul wrote his epistles early, so at the time there were many who experienced the appearance of Jesus....he mentioned 500. I am sure they spoke to many about this.

Read this if you have time. Not to convince you, just to read and understand the reason Christian believe in the Resurrection.

http://ntwrightpage....esurrection.htm

And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. (1 Cor 15:17)

Peace

Mark

So, "If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile." Do you have any idea about the meaning of this statement? That bodily resurrection was the only reason for Paul to behave as a decent person. Because he had a reward to look forward to. "If the dead won't resurrect, let us eat and drink for tomorrow we die." (I Cor. 15:32) It means that if what he ran for throughout his life did not happen, he would be ready to make a carnival of his life and die. He would act virtuous only and exclusively for that afterlife reward. You know, like a treat offered to a dog to obey and perform funny. Any one who has a dog knows what I am talking about. That's simply ridiculous. Where is the pioneering spirit to live for the good of the world and not for a personal reward?

Now, back to the so-called resurrection of Jesus, the women did not believe it either. They had never heard such a thing from the lips of Jesus. Evidence? If you read John 20:13,15, when Mary Magdalene went to see the sepulcher and realized that the tomb was open and empty, she started to cry. "Why are you weeping" they asked. "Because the lord has been taken away and I do not know where they have put him." Is that an answer by someone who knew about bodily resurrection? Definitely not. Then she asked someone in the tomb whom she thought was the gardener, "Sir, if you are the one who carried him off, tell me where you have laid him and I will take him away." It is only obvious that Jesus had never spoken to any of them about some thing he could not believe himself. So, what's the point? That the idea of the Jesus' resurrection had been fabricated by Paul as part of his gospel. (II Tim. 2:8) And Paul kept no secret by confessing that much to his disciple Timothy.

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We do have a spirit

No matter what ones religious belief, or lack of, we do have a Spirit that needs to be attended to. The Spirit within each of us is made for joy, love, happiness.... if we do not develop our inner life we will look for other avenues to attain what we most desire....what we are made for. When we self-medicate it is only a help for a short time and in the long run can become just another hurdle that needs to be overcome. The more we seek to escape pain at all cost, the stronger its embrace.

IMHO, what you mean is that we have what it takes to be embellished by the word "spirit." Yes, we have many spirits, good ones in our virtues and bad ones in our vices and transgressions of the Golden rule.

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To me, Spirit refers to intangible but known aspects of ourselves. The unique, flexible, changing, non-physical entity that exists separately to our body but relies on that physical body for existence ("life") on the physical plane.

The Spirit can transcend to other planes of existence where the body cannot exist.

In really simple terms, there are pop culture examples to demonstrate. Ever see any of those (multiple) change-up movies? Freaky Friday, Suddenly 30, Sliding Doors.... Spirits swapped bodies. Or explored an alternative existence in time/space continuum. Still the same entity.

Love and light....

Edited by Seeker76

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To me, Spirit refers to intangible but known aspects of ourselves. The unique, flexible, changing, non-physical entity that exists separately to our body but relies on that physical body for existence ("life") on the physical plane.

The Spirit can transcend to other planes of existence where the body cannot exist.

In really simple terms, there are pop culture examples to demonstrate. Ever see any of those (multiple) change-up movies? Freaky Friday, Suddenly 30, Sliding Doors.... Spirits swapped bodies. Or explored an alternative existence in time/space continuum. Still the same entity.

Love and light....

True if it is as I now understand what you mean, that spirits are emanations in a man which exist only as long as man lives.

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Its all become jumbled up ... 'soul' has been removed and replaced by 'spirit' ( by the church in the 4th C { I think} and by philosophical dualism as 'mind' ).

Spirit used to be something we share while a soul is something very different ... to distinguish, here, I choose the earliest scripture and known thought about it :

Spirit;

Fravashi

'Soul'

Khvarenah

{emphasis added}

Ba - 'soul'

1. soul5.jpg

Ka - 'spirit'

EGYPTIAN-KA-SYMBOL.jpg

the hands show the signs of adoration - to an outward source that has indwelt.

" Egyptians believed that Heket or Meskhenet was the creator of each person's Ka, breathing it into them at the instant of their birth as the part of their soul that made them be alive. This resembles the concept of spirit in other religions."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_concept_of_the_soul

To understand the soul's actual dynamics I think the best way is to understand this myth:

http://www.theoi.com/Ouranios/Psykhe.html

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We definitely have a 'soul' because it is generated from that specific imaginative quality that separates us from the animals and resulted in culture. If we dont acknowledge it, in its own strange and imaginative ways, permutations and reversals of possible themes in reality, imagination or 'imaginative' or "Daimonic" 'reality' - then trouble starts.

You know the saying 'Good for the soul' ... its a reality, the issue is what is good for the soul might not be good for the rationalist ego ... then people struggle with their soul ... or totally deny it .

jacob-wrestling-angel.png

Thats why, no matter how much we advance scientifically rationally and logically, a certain amount of the population is going to insist they had an alien abduction or do ..... even in individuals ... you can still get highly intelligent and rational people following a religion, on a literal level, that is out of date by a few thousand years.

What happens when the population doesnt attend to its needs ... or attends the wrong way? This week is national mental health week here - the adverts claim more than 1/2 the Australian population suffers from some type of mental illness ... more than half! It also causes depression - I live in one of the best places in Australia ... people come all over for holidays here- it has beaches, forests, World Heritage rainforest, great climate, etc etc ... and if you dont work you get the dole ! yet the local Chemist has the highest rate per population of antidepressant usage in the state !

Even the religious people - who believe in 'spirit'.

Yet I visit the indigenous ... they are sitting in the dirt around the fire in a gunya made from old tin and torn tarpaulin roof .... they are inwardly happy, sharing, loving, caring, ... camping on their sacred land they finally got back ... their land IS their soul to them ... and they virtually live in 'soul world' ... but the others that are 'removed from their soul' .... I dont go there .... you wouldnt want to know what happens there :no:

Every society I studied in Anthropology showed a similar dynamic.

Edited by back to earth
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Spirit has nothing to do with being spiritual it is a state of being in the world.

jmccr8

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if you have hell in your heart you won't be happy in heaven

jmccr8

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Its all become jumbled up ... 'soul' has been removed and replaced by 'spirit' ( by the church in the 4th C { I think} and by philosophical dualism as 'mind' ).

Spirit used to be something we share while a soul is something very different ... to distinguish, here, I choose the earliest scripture and known thought about it :

Spirit;

Fravashi

'Soul'

Khvarenah

  • The khvarenah is the archetype of the person one can grow to if allowed to grow to the limit of her or his capacity in grace, that is, in keeping with the fravashi.
  • The khvarenah is also a person's higher calling - their meaning in life.
  • Every human being is endowed with natural talents that can be harnessed and developed to achieve one's highest potential, one's latent destiny in life, or one's higher calling. Alternatively, through choice, these talents can be employed to achieve base ambitions.
  • A spenta mainyu - a brilliant, positive, constructive, and beneficent spirit - allows a person to perceive their higher calling.
  • An angra mainyu - a gloomy, negative, destructive, and harmful spirit - leaves a person vulnerable to base ambitions.
  • A spenta mainyu enables a person to choose asha, the path of goodness, and pursue her or his calling without expectation of reward.
  • The khvarenah is specific to a person and is different for each person.
  • The khvarenah that does not belong to a person cannot be seized by another person. The implication is that we should be content with our khvarenah and not be jealous and greedy of the other's khvarenah (here, good fortune) through.

  • When all human beings realize their calling or full potential in grace, the world will attain <a href="http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/scriptures/selections.htm#vahishtem" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(255, 0, 0); background: inherit;" target="_blank">vahishtem anghuim & frasho-kereti - the ultimate and ideal future existence, a heaven on earth. (Also see the section on Airyana Vaeja, the Aryan homeland, as paradise.)
  • Human beings often limit or loose themselves. In either case, they do not achieve their full potential or capacity.
  • While to some extent, a person's lot in life is determined by birth and circumstance, a person can find her or his latent khvarenah or calling by envisioning the person one aspires to become in grace, and then taking steps to realize the khvarenah despite daunting obstacles and adversity.
  • To loose oneself is to loose one's khvarenah.
  • In mythology, the khvarenah is like a bird that hovers over a person,1. and one that can fly away. If grace is replaced by evil ambitions, the bird is replaced by serpents growing out of that person's shoulders.
  • A person's realization of her or his khvarenah is evidenced by a halo (farr in Persian), glowing brightly over her or his head - radiant as the sun. (See portrait of Zarathushtra at the top of the page - a physical representation of something perceived by the spiritual eye and senses.) The opposite of the light of a halo is darkness - like a dark cloud hanging over someone.
  • A person's realization of her or his khvarenah cloaks that person with the aura of charisma and grace, the kind possessed by Zarathushtra and King Cyrus the Great.
  • Khvarenah and the resulting charisma enable leadership that does not rely on authority.

{emphasis added}

Ba - 'soul'

1. soul5.jpg

Ka - 'spirit'

EGYPTIAN-KA-SYMBOL.jpg

the hands show the signs of adoration - to an outward source that has indwelt.

" Egyptians believed that Heket or Meskhenet was the creator of each person's Ka, breathing it into them at the instant of their birth as the part of their soul that made them be alive. This resembles the concept of spirit in other religions."

http://en.wikipedia....ept_of_the_soul

To understand the soul's actual dynamics I think the best way is to understand this myth:

http://www.theoi.com...ios/Psykhe.html

Interesting reading but, I am stuck with Genesis 2:7 for my simpler understanding of soul, being only the combination of body with the breath of life which at the time of death, the combination is undone as body goes back to the dust and the breath of life to God Who gave it. This "go back to God" is only an embellishment for the statement to simply mean: It is gone.(Eccles. 12:7)

Edited by Ben Masada

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