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seeder

Is this a kidnap, or is it just parental love

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In the UK news this is everywhere. A small boy with brain cancer.. that the UK hospital failed to treat, or wouldn't treat due to cost, was removed from the hospital by his parents, who then went to Spain..

A European arrest warrant was issued, the family were found in Spain, the boy taken to hospital and the parents held in jail.

Now the UK cops say they feared for his safety, hence the arrest warrant, but a large public majority claim it was unnecessary heavy handed police action. The parents had planned well, had the special feeding device and many packs of the special food the boy needed... and now they are sitting in jail charged (perhaps) with child cruelty! So what do you think of the parents actions?

Heres the story, the article shares two vids by the boys family, so do watch if you can

Parents of 'kidnapped' cancer boy Ashya held in cells at Madrid court ahead of extradition hearing this afternoon over child cruelty claims - while their son remains alone in Spanish hospital

Brett and Nagmeh King took Ashya from Southampton General Hospital

They are now being held in Madrid for extradition hearing this afternoon

They were arrested in the city of Malaga on Saturday after a three-day hunt

Naveed King posted a new video on YouTube defending his parents

Said terminally ill Ashya was happy and comfortable while travelling to Spain

Couple's six other children staying in nearby hostel with eldest son Danny

Ashya's grandmother says family has 'begged' to see him but was refused

PM has 'sympathy' for parents and says that Ashya's health comes first

Key bit:

"Ashya has undergone major surgery for an aggressive brain tumour and is kept alive by a feeding tube. NHS cancer specialists told his family that the boy cannot be saved and will die within four months.

But his parents refused to accept this prognosis and took their son and their six other children on a ferry to France on Thursday before driving to Malaga.

http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz3C3xjVcZb

.

Edited by seeder
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For anyone who cant stream the articles vids:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6gXcat8xoM

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They shouldn't of removed the sick child from hospital. Why did they do that?

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They shouldn't of removed the sick child from hospital. Why did they do that?

They believed they would get no further treatment for their son, or at least, the treatment that could possibly heal him

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They shouldn't of removed the sick child from hospital. Why did they do that?

I don't know, Its a difficult situation to understand and one you have no way of knowing how you would react until you faced the situation yourself, Something hopefully most people will never have to do.

Maybe it was wrong to take him out of hospital when he was so ill, but they were trying to do the best for their child as far as I can see and took him to Spain in the hope of getting treatment that wasn't available to him in the U.K.

Like, I said, None of us know how how we would react in that situation but they were desperate to try and save their Son, and in their minds they were trying to do their best for their son.

I don't know how I'd react in the same situation but its likely I'd do the same if it meant curing my child.

Edited by SheWomanCatTypeThing
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If the parents feel their son is not getting the treatment he needs then I feel the parents are well within their rights to seek a place that can and will give him the treatment he needs.

Hospitals do not automatically own you or your family just because you enter their doors, you are not obligated to keep using their services if their services are not delivering what is needed.

This is probably one reason why the family fled, because of the increasingly militaristic mindset that these medical service providers have been adopting. I cannot fathom how a doctor can prosecute a family for wanting to save their child and I cannot fathom this god-complex that the medical industry has adopted in thinking that their word is the absolute in a matter.

I applaud the father who went to great measures to learn all he could and apparently discovered things the doctors did not know or refused to tell him about.

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Update

The parents of Ashya King are being held in police custody after they refused to consent to their extradition to the UK at court appearance in Spain.

A High Court judge in Madrid ruled Brett and Naghemeh King will remain in custody for a maximum of 72 hours while he considers granting bail.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29009883

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If the parents feel their son is not getting the treatment he needs then I feel the parents are well within their rights to seek a place that can and will give him the treatment he needs.

Hospitals do not automatically own you or your family just because you enter their doors, you are not obligated to keep using their services if their services are not delivering what is needed.

This is probably one reason why the family fled, because of the increasingly militaristic mindset that these medical service providers have been adopting. I cannot fathom how a doctor can prosecute a family for wanting to save their child and I cannot fathom this god-complex that the medical industry has adopted in thinking that their word is the absolute in a matter.

I applaud the father who went to great measures to learn all he could and apparently discovered things the doctors did not know or refused to tell him about.

I have no idea what planet you are messaging from...what the heck do you mean by Militaristic Mindset of medical service providers?? A Doctor CANNOT, let me repeat that, CANNOT prosecute a family - no matter what!!!

The family were offered 2nd opinions but they refused, the family (being Medical Experts ***yes, sarcasm***) put their child at much greater risk. They bought Meds off of the internet? SERIOUSLY?? That is guaranteed to be the real deal then isn't it? Jeez... the doctors knew all about Photon Beam therapy and stated to the parents that it would not offer any advantage to their son's condition.

They took their child out of hospital, bought internet drugs and food for treatment, went to Malaga (where they have been told the same thing about the therapy by the way - I live up the road from there.

In short , they endangered their son's life ( the same way that JW's and Mormons refuse Blood transfusions) so were neglecting the welfare of their child.

YES, they should be locked away at the moment, give their son a chance for curative therapy, get their heads out of their A** where they think they know best , and get back to a real life

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Actually, they went to Spain, to SELL property they had, in order to be able to PAY for the proton beam therapy that IS available at the Czech Republic. And which was declined in the UK. The boy has 4 months to live. Just because they bought stuff online is totally immaterial, there are many bona fide medical supplies companies online you know.. and all he needed was drip food, vits, and syringes..

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YES, they should be locked away at the moment, give their son a chance for curative therapy, get their heads out of their A** where they think they know best , and get back to a real life

I don't think locking them away and denying them precious time with their Son whom they clearly love and care for will achieve much at all really, In fact I think its quite cruel.

Maybe they were a bit misguided, I doubt anyone would really be thinking clearly when put in their situation though.

I think they did what they did out of desperation and hope and love for their child, That's not so wrong really.

Edited by SheWomanCatTypeThing
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Actually, they went to Spain, to SELL property they had, in order to be able to PAY for the proton beam therapy that IS available at the Czech Republic. And which was declined in the UK. The boy has 4 months to live. Just because they bought stuff online is totally immaterial, there are many bona fide medical supplies companies online you know.. and all he needed was drip food, vits, and syringes..

You don't have to go to Spain to sell your property.

In fact, given the amount of time it would take to sell any property here (1 - 2 years if you are lucky) then it is a totally spurious argument (if this is what they are saying). You always employ an Abogado or an Gestoria to handle such things.

Are they now saying that they took their boy out of Hospital in UK simply to drive him to Spain, without medical supervision, to sell a property (which would never have materialised) THEN to drive him to CZ for treatment at some unspecified time in the future?

The point about buying on-line is that you never know what you are getting - whether it is as stated, or is some bogus formula.

Sorry, but if the hospital had actually given him only 4 months to live and they said that they wanted to try a different therapy in CZ then they would have received every assistance from the UK Authorities because the NHS IS NOT run as a dictatorship. You can apply for NHS funding for this treatment abroad - and a decision is given within just a few days.

I see this as nothing more than a cheap attempt to get a sympathetic ear from the public to donate money to give him treatment (when, had they waited a few days this funding would have been approved by the NHS - if it was possible to have a beneficial outcome - which would have covered ALL costs - not just the treatment , but travel and boarding arrangements as well).

I understand that their little trick has worked - with people donating money for just this purpose.

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I see this as nothing more than a cheap attempt to get a sympathetic ear from the public to donate money to give him treatment (when, had they waited a few days this funding would have been approved by the NHS - if it was possible to have a beneficial outcome - which would have covered ALL costs - not just the treatment , but travel and boarding arrangements as well).

I understand that their little trick has worked - with people donating money for just this purpose.

The NHS will sit back and watch people die based on their postcode. That is a fact and one that I'm all too aware of having had a family member denied life saving drugs that she would have had access to had she lived in another county, Thats county, Not country, And subsequently watching her die. I also witnessed the NHS end my grandmothers life by denying her food and water in hospital.

I'm guessing the parents felt they had no choice and wanted to do the best for their son.

I do understand your cynicism to a point but just think, How might you feel in the same situation?

The NHS does not always have the patients best interests at heart, No matter how much they will try and deny it.

Edited by SheWomanCatTypeThing
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The NHS will sit back and watch people die based on their postcode. That is a fact and one that I'm all too aware of having had a family member denied life saving drugs that she would have had access to had she lived in another county, Thats county, Not country, And subsequently watching her die. I also witnessed the NHS end my grandmothers life by denying her food and water in hospital.

I'm guessing the parents felt they had no choice and wanted to do the best for their son.

I do understand your cynicism to a point but just think, How might you feel in the same situation?

The NHS does not always have the patients best interests at heart, No matter how much they will try and deny it.

People ARE sent from the UK to the USA for Proton Beam treatment where it is considered beneficial. At some point however, you have to bring cost / benefit analysis into the equation. If Doctors (and don't forget the parents were offered 2nd opinions from Consultants of their choice, an offer which they rejected) determine there would be no therapeutic value to such a procedure, then given the huge costs involved it just becomes a palliative for the parents.

I am very sorry to hear of your losses, I was asked (with my mother at the same time) whether to maintain drug therapy for my father who had slipped into a persistent vegetative state. It was a a very hard decision for mum but I fully supported her when she simply said "I don't want him to suffer at all" the doctors accepted this with humility and the best care imaginable. He passed away 3 days later with dignity. We owe a huge debt to the NHS...

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The NHS might not "always have the patient's best interests at heart", but stomping off to another country in order to undertake Faerie Therapies isn't going to help either.

Once again, no one comes out of this situation covered in glory.

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People ARE sent from the UK to the USA for Proton Beam treatment where it is considered beneficial. At some point however, you have to bring cost / benefit analysis into the equation. If Doctors (and don't forget the parents were offered 2nd opinions from Consultants of their choice, an offer which they rejected) determine there would be no therapeutic value to such a procedure, then given the huge costs involved it just becomes a palliative for the parents.

I am very sorry to hear of your losses, I was asked (with my mother at the same time) whether to maintain drug therapy for my father who had slipped into a persistent vegetative state. It was a a very hard decision for mum but I fully supported her when she simply said "I don't want him to suffer at all" the doctors accepted this with humility and the best care imaginable. He passed away 3 days later with dignity. We owe a huge debt to the NHS...

I don't think you're seeing the desperation with which these parents acted.

I'm glad your father was offered drug therapy, And you made the correct choice on his behalf.

At least the NHS offered you that based on your postcode.

I'm sure you owe them a great debt.

I can think of others who do not.

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I don't think you're seeing the desperation with which these parents acted.

I'm glad your father was offered drug therapy, And you made the correct choice on his behalf.

At least the NHS offered you that based on your postcode.

I'm sure you owe them a great debt.

I can think of others who do not.

I understand and respect your viewpoint.

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The NHS might not "always have the patient's best interests at heart", but stomping off to another country in order to undertake Faerie Therapies isn't going to help either.

Once again, no one comes out of this situation covered in glory.

Who says its not to help though?

I've read stories of people "beyond help" who went abroad to try something different and survived. Who are we to sit there and judge someone for making a decision I don't expect they ever imagined themselves making.

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I understand and respect your viewpoint.

And I do yours too.

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I could sit here and give a rational response to this, in terms of they are wrong here, and theyshouldn't have done this etc......but.....well, I don't have kids, so if I did ever have them then what ever I write here would probably change then, in fact, I can't think of anything I wouldn't do or try to save their life.

Sad all round really. Locking them up is wrong though, if the little lad really does have only months to live, well the parents have a lifetime to live with it....deal with the legal issue after he's gone, stick security with them at the hospital if you have to, but don't put them in cell whilst the lad is in a hospital bed many miles away - that's cruel on the sick child for a start.

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Did police break the law by ordering arrest of anguished parents? Officers accused of over-reached powers as lawyers say there is little evidence pair committed any offence

Brett and Nagmeh King took Ashya from Southampton General Hospital

They are now being held in Madrid for 72 hours after extradition hearing

They were arrested in the city of Malaga on Saturday after a three-day hunt

Family's lawyer says they are the victims and will sue the NHS and police

Police were at the centre of a furious row last night amid claims they acted unlawfully by demanding the arrest of the parents of dying Ashya King.

Officers are accused of over-reaching their powers by issuing a European Arrest Warrant for the five-year-old’s parents Brett, 51, and Naghmeh, 45. Senior lawyers said there was little evidence the pair had committed any offence or that police undertook a satisfactory criminal inquiry.

One said the actions of the Hampshire force, apparently under the direction of hospital doctors, throws into question the role of police in modern society.

Barrister John Cooper said police risk appearing as the ‘enforcement arm of medical opinion’. ‘The police are there to protect citizens and the easy transition to uncritical enforcers of other powerful interest groups is troubling,’ he said.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2740170/Did-police-break-law-ordering-arrest-anguished-parents.html#ixzz3C8oTKZno

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The NHS will sit back and watch people die based on their postcode. That is a fact and one that I'm all too aware of having had a family member denied life saving drugs that she would have had access to had she lived in another county, Thats county, Not country, And subsequently watching her die. I also witnessed the NHS end my grandmothers life by denying her food and water in hospital.

I'm guessing the parents felt they had no choice and wanted to do the best for their son.

I do understand your cynicism to a point but just think, How might you feel in the same situation?

The NHS does not always have the patients best interests at heart, No matter how much they will try and deny it.

Sorry to hear that you lost your grandmother. I know that certain GP surgeries take on people if they live in a postal area.

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If the determination by the medical professionals is that the child has 4 months to live, then surely the legal guardians of the child aka: the parents are the final word on how the child will live their remaining time on earth. There needs to be proof that the child suffered by being removed from the hospital, given that the medicines required to sustain the child were continued then I am not sure that can be proved at all. The parents are seeking further treatment for their child, seriously, what have they got to lose? I am not a parent but if I was I would do anything and everything that was moral and legal to help my child. The doctors offer of a "2nd opinion" amongst their peers in an environment where the therapy is not highly valued would not have done much to sway me either tbh. I would consider the possibility that ground breaking research into the matter was being achieved better elsewhere if the treatment was more prevalent and evidence of it's potential was coming from elsewhere too.

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Heres some quotes from the BBc news

Nick Clegg has called for brain tumour patient Ashya King's parents to be freed and reunited with their son.

Brett and Naghemeh King are being held in custody in Madrid after removing Ashya from hospital in Southampton and travelling to Spain. There have been growing calls for their release after they spent another night away from the five-year-old.

An internal inquiry into the case has begun at Southampton General Hospital, the BBC understands. The Home Office has been in contact with Hampshire Constabulary to discuss their handling of the case, the Prime Minister's spokesman confirmed.

Home Secretary Theresa May also told the House of Commons she hoped MPs "will be reassured to know that I understand that the [Crown Prosecution Service] are reviewing this issue as we speak".

"A little boy is on his own in a hospital, I would like to see him with his family as soon as possible," he said.

"As far as I can make out, this is a family in a state of real anguish who have taken this exceptional step of moving their sick child to another country because they think that's what is best for their child."

and

Mr Clegg, the deputy prime minister, said his "heart goes out" to the parents. m"A little boy is on his own in a hospital, I would like to see him with his family as soon as possible," he said.

"As far as I can make out, this is a family in a state of real anguish who have taken this exceptional step of moving their sick child to another country because they think that's what is best for their child."

and

Meanwhile, the couple's lawyer in Spain, told the BBC a hearing has been scheduled at Madrid's Central Court on Wednesday at 11:00 local time. Lawyer Juan Isidro Fernandez Diaz, said they are also preparing to take legal action against Southampton General Hospital.

He said they "wanted the very best for their child." "They never thought that they committed any crime in the UK," he said.

More than 100,000 people have signed an online petition demanding Ashya be reunited with his parents. The petition was delivered to Downing Street by friends of the King family

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29026266

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Just on TV news..breaking story... there has been a request by the CPS (crown prosecution service) - for the arrest warrant to be withdrawn. That means the parents can expect to be released asap

RESULT! :tu:

typo

Edited by seeder
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This is what happens when teh government has complete control over your healthcare. It is beyond disgustung, it is terrifying. Any parent will do whatever it takes to get their baby cured and they had every right to take the kid to a country that would treat him vice a bureaucracy whose death panel wrote the kid off as not worth the price.

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