Do Atheists die more difficult than Believers

[Beany]

Oh!! Yes!! you do fear death most likely it is the worst fear you have, let someone put a gun to your head and threaten to kill you and you will quickly know your statement is nonsense.

I don't fear death either, Alan. I am taken aback that you feel you have such knowledge of Br Cornelius that you believe you have more knowledge of him than he himself. Please understand that there's all kinds of people participating in this thread, and we each have our own unique outlook & perspective. Yours is neither superior nor inferior to others, but you do not have the right to tell others what they feel or believe.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Beany

[Rafterman]

-snip-

Charles Darwin, on his deathbed: “I regret that I suggested a theory, and that gullible men gobbled it up, as though it were fact. I never intended that.”

Come on chief, you've got to bring a better game than that.

Really? That's the stuff of fundy church bulletins.

[Rafterman]

Oh!! Yes!! you do fear death most likely it is the worst fear you have, let someone put a gun to your head and threaten to kill you and you will quickly know your statement is nonsense.

I'm sure there are many of those who possess "god's moral compass" that would be more than happy to pull that trigger.

[Guest]

Oh!! Yes!! you do fear death most likely it is the worst fear you have, let someone put a gun to your head and threaten to kill you and you will quickly know your statement is nonsense.

Death by violence is a rather particular and unique one. It is the violence we fear not the death.

I stand by my statement, when my time comes I face it with not an ounce of fear.

Br Cornelius

[Beany]

If the backwards muppets of Answers in Genesis could examine and conclude Darwin's deathbed confession is very likely false, that doesn't say much for the rest.

https://answersingen...rsion-a-legend/

Can I steal that phrase "backwards muppets of answers?"

[Rlyeh]

Can I steal that phrase "backwards muppets of answers?"

I guess so, but that phrase might be a bit confusing.

[spartan max2]

I don't think anyone alive would know how anyone feels on their deathbed. It's not really something we have experienced

[+HerNibs]

'Charles Darwin: "I am not the least afraid to die." how do you know that this supposed quote by Darwin is factual? And if he indeed said that, in my opinion he was lying.

And I have checked in more than one place and have come up with the exact same last words of Charles Darwin.

You should know it is impossible to verify these supposed comments of dying people and your source might be correct or mine might be correct or neither the two of us correct. We would need a time machine to go back to be absolutely sure of the truth of these quotes.

Maybe we should look at the last word and death bed scenes of our own close family members to see if there is any justification to the idea that believers die more comfortably and peacefully than our atheist family members.

I do know for sure that the atheist members of my family were more frightened of death and that fear made their dying process profoundly more difficult. One aunt of mine, who had completely lost her faith in God, held onto life far too long, leading to much suffering of her own and the family who had to look at her slow deterioration before she finally let go and let God have his way.

Whoa, wait...if Darwin's last words agree with you then it's evidence supporting your theory but if he didn't then some one is lying?

You don't see issue with that?

I find it interesting that your family seems to be so afraid. My dear friend died, peacefully in her sleep from a brain aneurysm after a very pleasant day at a family reunion. She was an atheist. Staunch atheist.

Sadly, I lost my father-in-law last week. He lingered horribly in pain due to cancer. He continually had clergy come in and spoke to them. He was terrified that something in his life that he had done and hadn't atoned for would keep him from my mother-in-law in heaven. It was horrible to watch. He was a good Christian man and didn't deserve to die in this way.

So your personal experiences really don't amount for much do they? Dying is scary. Full stop. Many people dying are desperately terrified. Many may be hallucinating. Who knows? Nothing they are experiencing can be verified can it?

Nibs

Edited September 3, 2014 by HerNibs

[White Crane Feather]

Sorry, but if the god of the bible is setting your moral compass, then you my friend have one ****ed up moral compass given that the god of the bible is one of most despicable, warped, petty, non-moral, and downright evil entities ever envisioned.

Folks really need to read more about the god they are claiming to worship, but most just stop at the rainbows, puppy dog kisses, and unicorn farts part of the story. As the old song goes, "jesus loves the little children" except when he's murdering them in their sleep, killing them in the womb, and basically slaughtering them by the tens of thousands.

Sigh.... Why don't you actually study some catholic theology instead of just rehashing the fundamentalist straw man. Most moderate Christians view the bible as inspired works not literal stories. This is not cheery picking silly. The bible is not "a book". It's an anthology of different stories, letters, and "books" mostly passed originally from oral tradition. Moderate Christians recognize the tints of man in the stories. But you actually have to put some effort into studying the history and the religion. Both Christians and atheists who want to bash them alike.

Fundamentalists and atheists who think all Christians must be fundamentalists to be true to their religion do not speak for the Christian body at large. All the while an atheist claiming the other side is ignorant is truely ironic to behold.

[Guest]

Sigh.... Why don't you actually study some catholic theology instead of just rehashing the fundamentalist straw man. Most moderate Christians view the bible as inspired works not literal stories. This is not cheery picking silly. The bible is not "a book". It's an anthology of different stories, letters, and "books" mostly passed originally from oral tradition. Moderate Christians recognize the tints of man in the stories. But you actually have to put some effort into studying the history and the religion. Both Christians and atheists who want to bash them alike.

Fundamentalists and atheists who think all Christians must be fundamentalists to be true to their religion do not speak for the Christian body at large. All the while an atheist claiming the other side is ignorant is truely ironic to behold.

There is a polarization in Christianity.

Those who stick to a literal interpretation of the Bible - who might be called fundamentalists.

Then there are the rest who have gradually distanced themselves from the more unsavoury aspects of the Bible, till the faith becomes diluted to the point where a Christian of a few centuries ago would run a mile.

Who is the more honest Christian, who has the right interpretation of the faith. Let me posit that the fundamentalist is the more honest follower of the faith, let me also suggest that we shouldn't follow the more moderate Christian when seeking a true understanding of what the faith actually is. The more modern and moderate Christian maybe embarrassed by his more fundamentalist brother - but who represents the core faith better ?

Of course personally I think it is an academic question since the core faith of Christ was hijacked by St.Paul in his quest to create a universal faith of Empire, and so almost none of the people who currently call themselves Christian, can really lay claim to the faith of Jesus.

Br Cornelius

Edited September 3, 2014 by Guest

[Grandpa Greenman]

'I do know for sure that the atheist members of my family were more frightened of death and that fear made their dying process profoundly more difficult. One aunt of mine, who had completely lost her faith in God, held onto life far too long, leading to much suffering of her own and the family who had to look at her slow deterioration before she finally let go and let God have his way.

What a heartless thing to say about someone. How do you know she held on too long or when it was her time to die. Here is the thing, some illnesses like cancer we don't have that much control over how they progress sometimes. It is not like she could be put out of her suffering like the family dog, we don't do that. Sorry her illness and death was inconvenient for her family. You really need to pray to your God for some humility.

Oh!! Yes!! you do fear death most likely it is the worst fear you have, let someone put a gun to your head and threaten to kill you and you will quickly know your statement is nonsense.

My father was a life long atheist and a WWII vet, I ask him if he had prayed when he thought he was going to die in the fox hole and was thinking they were going to be over run. He said "Hell no, I was to busy fighting to stay alive." He was wounded in the battle, but he kept fighting and they were able to turn the battle. I am proud to say my father was the atheist in the fox hole.

If some puts a gun to my head I am going to fight or be thinking about how to get out of the situation. I have had a gun pointed at me and tossed my wallet, he turned to pick it up and I booked. Glad it was when I was younger and could still run. Now I would have to hand over the wallet, hope he is happy or maybe fight if I have to. What would you do, just give up and die.

I am amazed at the lengths Christians and Muslims will do to get converts. Y'all will down right lie just to say you are right and everyone else is wrong. Some will even kill. To you really think this is pleasing to your God.

I am a Pagan Druid, so I actually believe the Universe kind of recycles and our loved ones return to become someone or thing else. Is it logical or can I prove it, no, I just formulated from my own experiences. Pagans don't seek converts, we don't have to, people come to us when they are ready, no tricks, no lies. People who don't what to be on the Earth path, fine, we don't care. We just figure you'll come to it when you are ready, if not this life, then the next. Each to their own path. Usually when people come to the path they have actually been doing it along time and just didn't know what it was.

As above, so below.

Edited September 3, 2014 by GreenmansGod

[Davros of Skaro]

If an exctinction event Asteroid was coming towards Earth?

Theists would pray and rejoice.

Atheists would problem solve.

[quiXilver]

Of far more interest and consequence to me than thoughts and fantasy about death or dying...

How am I living? Who am I being?

What am I?

[Guest]

You only become obsessed by death when someone tells you that you might not like the place you are going to. Only the mental mind trap called HELL makes people fear death. Its the hardest thing to leave behind when you kick the religion habit. Its pervasive and they plant it deep in your consciousness but you can feel your life improving as soon as you root it out.

Eskimo: 'If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?' Priest: 'No, not if you did not know.' Eskimo: 'Then why did you tell me?'

Br Cornelius

[White Crane Feather]

There is a polarization in Christianity.

Those who stick to a literal interpretation of the Bible - who might be called fundamentalists.

Then there are the rest who have gradually distanced themselves from the more unsavoury aspects of the Bible, till the faith becomes diluted to the point where a Christian of a few centuries ago would run a mile.

Who is the more honest Christian, who has the right interpretation of the faith. Let me posit that the fundamentalist is the more honest follower of the faith, let me also suggest that we shouldn't follow the more moderate Christian when seeking a true understanding of what the faith actually is. The more modern and moderate Christian maybe embarrassed by his more fundamentalist brother - but who represents the core faith better ?

Of course personally I think it is an academic question since the core faith of Christ was hijacked by St.Paul in his quest to create a universal faith of Empire, and so almost none of the people who currently call themselves Christian, can really lay claim to the faith of Jesus.

Br Cornelius

I think you are totally and completely incorrect. Moderate Christians do take more of an academic approach. They still have a proclamation of faith no doubt. Something that atheists cannot agree with of course. But labeling the fundamentalist interpretation of the bible as the true and best representation of Christianity is simply wrong born of a lack of education of what is actually taught. I have been through the inquiry phase of Catholicism. Catholicism has not evolved to distance themselves from fundamentalists. Quite the contrary. They have highly intelligent scholars working tirelessly on the best possible understanding and inturpretation of what the bible really is. It wasnt always that way of course the religion has made its rounds. Of course the underlying faith that it is "inspired" work is still there, but if you actually sit down with a teacher you will discover that the modern understanding of context, the human element, perspective, and litoral not literal understanding is all applied.

Some parts are ment to be literal story telling from the PERSPECTIVE or even inturpretation of a previous source. Educated Christians understand this. Some parts are completely allegorical because the are passed down from the prose of traditional allegorical story telling. Much like a Native American elder telling a fantastic story over a fire to teach a lesson. It still happens in modern story telling. The Christians that I am close with know this, but it seems that atheists do not. They claim logical high ground but love the straw man. They make the same exact mistake as the uneducated fundamentalist does. How funny. It makes me chuckle every time I think about it.

How can the "book" of the bible have both literal elements and littoral elements. It's because it's .... Are you ready.... An ANTHOLOGY. It's a collection of different stories some separated by thousands of years.

If you have this discussion with a true Christian scholar, she/he will chew you up and spit out your straw man side ways.

The bible being an ANTHOLOGY, is not ment to be read from front to back. You can attack their faith in what they claim to be divinely INSPIRED all you want and has merit heck even the illogic of fundamentalist inturpretation and even some of the magical stuff that is ment to be litteral is fair game, but it looks foolish for an atheist to not have the slightest clue what this large body of Christians even believe about the bible and continue to bring up the ever present uneducated bible bashing. And I'm not a Christian

[Sakari]

I can say, when I was diagnosed with Cancer, I was ( and still am ) afraid to die. I did not realize it until that word was spoken, how true death is.

To me, I realized I do not know what to believe in. I would imagine if I had a faith, it would be a lot easier.

Not knowing what happens to me is scary. And i told myself " I am not ready to go, I have not done everything I want to do ".....

But, you can not pretend to believe.........

[+Liquid Gardens]

Some parts are ment to be literal story telling from the PERSPECTIVE or even inturpretation of a previous source. Educated Christians understand this. Some parts are completely allegorical because the are passed down from the prose of traditional allegorical story telling. Much like a Native American elder telling a fantastic story over a fire to teach a lesson. It still happens in modern story telling. The Christians that I am close with know this, but it seems that atheists do not. They claim logical high ground but love the straw man. They make the same exact mistake as the uneducated fundamentalist does. How funny. It makes me chuckle every time I think about it.

It is your opinion that fundamentalists are uneducated, and you just gloss over the most important component of why the Bible gets picked on and Aesop does not: the Bible is claimed to be divinely inspired, the Word of God, 'all scripture is god-breathed and useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness'.

If you have this discussion with a true Christian scholar, she/he will chew you up and spit out your straw man side ways.

There's a lot of Christian scholars with lots of different opinions. Will your hypothetical Christian scholar be chewing up the supposed strawman with actual evidence and stuff? They'll be able to tell us (finally) what the Bible really was meant to convey, without access to or even identification of the majority of its authors?

The bible being an ANTHOLOGY, is not ment to be read from front to back. You can attack their faith in what they claim to be divinely INSPIRED all you want and has merit heck even the illogic of fundamentalist inturpretation and even some of the magical stuff that is ment to be litteral is fair game, but it looks foolish for an atheist to not have the slightest clue what this large body of Christians even believe about the bible and continue to bring up the ever present uneducated bible bashing. And I'm not a Christian

Speaking of strawmen, I don't know anyone who doesn't know it's an anthology; pretty obvious since the 4 gospels all cover roughly the same time period. Is what the bible 'means' determined by by what the large body of Christians believe today, or in the past, and how do you know? I think that was one of Cornelius' points. Also, you used 'littoral/litoral' twice and the former seems to mean 'related to a shore of a sea or lake'; did you mean 'liturgical'?

[+DieChecker]

Whoa, wait...if Darwin's last words agree with you then it's evidence supporting your theory but if he didn't then some one is lying?

You don't see issue with that?

I find it interesting that your family seems to be so afraid. My dear friend died, peacefully in her sleep from a brain aneurysm after a very pleasant day at a family reunion. She was an atheist. Staunch atheist.

Sadly, I lost my father-in-law last week. He lingered horribly in pain due to cancer. He continually had clergy come in and spoke to them. He was terrified that something in his life that he had done and hadn't atoned for would keep him from my mother-in-law in heaven. It was horrible to watch. He was a good Christian man and didn't deserve to die in this way.

So your personal experiences really don't amount for much do they? Dying is scary. Full stop. Many people dying are desperately terrified. Many may be hallucinating. Who knows? Nothing they are experiencing can be verified can it?

Nibs

That goes pretty much with what I said earlier. Those who lived a happy, regretless life will be more likely to die a happy, regretless death. Those who live a life of fear, will be more likely to die in fearful death.

In many cases religion is provides comfort in the hope of a protecting god, collecting us up for some reward. But, I think that is only a small part of the equation.

[Alan McDougall]

Sorry, but if the god of the bible is setting your moral compass, then you my friend have one ****ed up moral compass given that the god of the bible is one of most despicable, warped, petty, non-moral, and downright evil entities ever envisioned.

Folks really need to read more about the god they are claiming to worship, but most just stop at the rainbows, puppy dog kisses, and unicorn farts part of the story. As the old song goes, "jesus loves the little children" except when he's murdering them in their sleep, killing them in the womb, and basically slaughtering them by the tens of thousands.

What a load of utter rubbish, Jesus did nothing but preach peace, it is his supposed so-called followers that did those atrocities.

Gandhi said he would become a follower of Jesus, if it were not for the examples Christians,

[Arbenol]

Oh!! Yes!! you do fear death most likely it is the worst fear you have, let someone put a gun to your head and threaten to kill you and you will quickly know your statement is nonsense.

We must know what we do not know (And admit it)

You should take your own advice.

[+DieChecker]

I can say, when I was diagnosed with Cancer, I was ( and still am ) afraid to die. I did not realize it until that word was spoken, how true death is.

To me, I realized I do not know what to believe in. I would imagine if I had a faith, it would be a lot easier.

Not knowing what happens to me is scary. And i told myself " I am not ready to go, I have not done everything I want to do ".....

But, you can not pretend to believe.........

Faith can be a tricky thing. It is easy for anyone to claim they have Faith and would walk through fire, or jump from a plane, or handle a rattlesnake, but it is another thing entirely to demonstrate Faith and DO those things. Most people have very little Faith, and so they have fear. Fear of dying, fear of failure, fear of being judged....

Myself, I try to practice faith every day, and I often fail at it. Often it is small things. Like I put change into a soda machine and no soda comes out. At which I just shrug and decide that maybe I'm not supposed to have that soda today. That may seem illogical, but faith is illogical isn't it?

If I was you, I'd not worry about Heaven or Hell. Clearly you are not a Hellion, or have long repented of any ills you may have done once upon a time. You seem to be a good man, and I'd expect to see you with an Eternal Reward after dying. The only thing you should worry about regarding dying is those who will be left behind.

Just my opinion as a follower of Christ. Myself, I believe in following Christ, and what he taught, and not necessarily what the Church has come up with over the last 2000 years.

[Jeanne dArc]

Oh!! Yes!! you do fear death most likely it is the worst fear you have, let someone put a gun to your head and threaten to kill you and you will quickly know your statement is nonsense.

Desire to continue living does not equate to a fear of death.

[Jeanne dArc]

What a load of utter rubbish, Jesus did nothing but preach peace, it is his supposed so-called followers that did those atrocities.

But isn't Jesus supposed to be God? The Flood alone is an account of Jesus personally murdering millions of people, including children and babies: not to mention the plagues on Egypt. Of course neither of those events ever actually happened, but in the context of the narrative of the Bible, Jesus is clearly culpable of mass genocide of infants.

[+Link of Hyrule]

Can I steal that phrase "backwards muppets of answers?"

I object to the derogatory use of the term "muppets"? The Muppets are responsible for some of the most intelligent and humorous television and film in the history of entertainment.

[Gromdor]

As an atheist, I have to say that I do think it is true. Especially for those who had a bad life. It gives them hope on their deathbed that they are going to something better, whereas atheists tend to despair at opportunity lost.

That being said, I am not going to try and delude myself for a happier death but rather focus on making my life have value.