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Jeremiah65

The British Empire

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I am curious about something.

What happened to the England of old? The world conquering empire that...at one time...the sun never set on. Was it Merica that stole your thunder?

My family is Scott-Irish on my mothers side and German on my fathers side...I have no horse in this race as both families have been in "Merica" since the 1600's...The more I research my ancestry, the more in wonder I become...

I am curious...what caused Great Britain to back off and start letting countries resume their own control? Was it money? religion? Peer pressure from Merica? Was it the east india trading company undermining the crown?

Having ancestry in Ireland and Scotland...I am totally cool with them becoming sovereign (northern Ireland I mean)...even though they might not like it once they have it. I know Scotland is pushing for independence...to be honest, I thought they were already sovereign so that shows how much I follow the politics of Europe....I try but our politics are so frigged up...it's all I can do to pay attention here...

So...are we watching the final dismantling of the British Empire?

I am far more bummed out these days as to the state of Germany from an ancestral viewpoint...the Anglos and Saxons used to be some of the toughest people on the planet and now they seem to be lost...like all the flack they took over WW2 beat them into submission...that might not be politically correct to say, but just an observation. Are we really seeing the "new world order" taking over where national pride is forbidden and everyone must submit to the UN?

Just curious by the way...not meaning to insult anyone...

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Having ancestry in Ireland and Scotland...I am totally cool with them becoming sovereign (northern Ireland I mean)...even though they might not like it once they have it. I know Scotland is pushing for independence...to be honest, I thought they were already sovereign so that shows how much I follow the politics of Europe....I try but our politics are so frigged up...it's all I can do to pay attention here...

It's just my guess, but I'd imagine it hard to try govern a populate that was ready to betray you in a heartbeat because in their eyes you're nothing more than a conqueror. Military-wise, british forces may have had superior tech back then (and I dont say they wouldn't have now, just the gap was bigger tech-wise), and when they conquered countries and weapons they used started leaking to the original peoples, well, they must've realised it'll be harder to hold on to a country when they got more numbers and same arms, and a bigger will to fight. Being a noble conqueror is a different source of morale than an oppressive racist occupier (not meaning that as an insult but the way it can be seen when you undermine the culture and peoples of the native country).

As for why the conquering stopped, I'd wager british learned that lesson. Yankees still haven't I guess. A lot of people are better off without big pharma, McDonalds, GMO (take Russia for example), and big brother (both the tv show and the people in power there). You need a financial reason and/or a political one, like replace a leader who's against you with a leader who's in your favor, will aid militarily more likely and better trade and public relations.

Edited by Mikko-kun

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Nothing lasts forever. but the legacy does and no other country as influenced and continues to influence the world as little old England has. There are plenty of books on the rise and fall of the British Empire. but The best thing that could have happened at the time was Americas independence. It was after this that the British went on to build the biggest empire the world as ever known. so not really a set back. to put into into perspective the money raised from the Sugar Islands were vital to the Empire so much so, they decided to leave old blighty open to invasion and chose to protect the sugar islands. it was a gamble that paid off. the Fall of the empire was always on the cards centuries of wars, a changing world in how global business and trade is conducted.

A good series is Empire of the Sea's which charts the rise of England a impoverished nation to the worlds greatest superpower.

https://www.youtube....h?v=D-Hn3kSdLvU

Edited by stevewinn
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What mostly happened is that Britain became more and more dependent on their own empire, to the point that they could not fight their wars with their own means anymore... the "colonized" took not and started to spin off... with every spin off the empire grew weaker.

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World War 2 exhausted the British empire and then heavy debts followed after.

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Clement Attlee's labor party took power in july, 1945, and over the next six years, gleefully dismantled the British Empire, to the consternation of Churchill and the conservatives, who did not regain power until 1951.

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Empires rise then they fall, that is the natural way of things. The Chinese empire is in the ascendant.

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I know I am a little odd with my fascination with "the dark ages"...I don't think they were "dark" at all...i see amazing stuff happening back then

From the fall of Rome to the battle of Hastings...there were so many interesting things going on...

The Visigoths, the Vandals, the Lombards, the Franks, the Anglos and the Saxons...fascinating stuff to me. Then along comes the transplanted scandinavians...the Normans...

We like to tease the french these days and treat them like they are big sissy's...but the Franks used to be pretty damn tough...Charlemagne...what a brilliant leader....I think we need a Charlemagne today. Very smart guy....

The fall of Harold in 1066 was just bad luck...if it had not been for the northern invasions of Scandinavians...which Harold repelled and released his army to go home......Harold may have been much better prepared to repel William....but I guess that is the finest example ever of armchair "generals"...so what we have today is the results of this "weird" chain of events....no one ever could have expected how it would go.

But then their are the family ties...bloodlines...which is incredibly hard to track and follow...but I find this period in history to be absolutely fascinating because it really did forge the modern world...things would be so much different if these "old days" had have went another way....

I hope....

I hope we can... as a unified culture of history...come together and repel the threat that we are confronting...the Islamic State wants to erase us and everything we stand for....I don't like that. I call on all of you out there...look into your heart...remember where it is you come from...and remember that at one time...we were all something else...we were just Celts...

Stand up...live free or die...don't let this new cult erase who and what we are...and they will if we let them.

Sound a little over the top?...no...not really...you better get a check up from the neck up if you think these folks will co-exist....

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I am curious about something.

What happened to the England of old? The world conquering empire that...at one time...the sun never set on. Was it Merica that stole your thunder?

My family is Scott-Irish on my mothers side and German on my fathers side...I have no horse in this race as both families have been in "Merica" since the 1600's...The more I research my ancestry, the more in wonder I become...

I am curious...what caused Great Britain to back off and start letting countries resume their own control? Was it money? religion? Peer pressure from Merica? Was it the east india trading company undermining the crown?

Having ancestry in Ireland and Scotland...I am totally cool with them becoming sovereign (northern Ireland I mean)...even though they might not like it once they have it. I know Scotland is pushing for independence...to be honest, I thought they were already sovereign so that shows how much I follow the politics of Europe....I try but our politics are so frigged up...it's all I can do to pay attention here...

So...are we watching the final dismantling of the British Empire?

I am far more bummed out these days as to the state of Germany from an ancestral viewpoint...the Anglos and Saxons used to be some of the toughest people on the planet and now they seem to be lost...like all the flack they took over WW2 beat them into submission...that might not be politically correct to say, but just an observation. Are we really seeing the "new world order" taking over where national pride is forbidden and everyone must submit to the UN?

Just curious by the way...not meaning to insult anyone...

It has happened with every major world power I think. We and they, are just on the decline - I think it's because we've been too fat and satisfied for too long. That's probably about to come to a crashing halt. It will be interesting to see how important freedom is when that day arrives.

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It would be useful to remember that William (the Conqueror) was actually Norman, and hated the French with a vengeance.

The dismantling of the Empire was an inevitability and largely achieved without violence (I am not referring to the Indian Mutiny), and of course, its successor the Commonwealth of Nations is constituted through entirely different beliefs and mutual co-operation. The Commonwealth Games is probably the best example of how an Empire can Morph itself into something entirely different.

ALL members of the Commonwealth are willing participants, but not all have QEII as their Head of State.

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I believe it was taxes, taxes and taxes. The British government needed money from trade, however people wont want to be pay taxes to the Crown even if the Crown has no influence in the region.

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It's a wake up call folks....

I realize that nationalism is frowned on now....that pride in who you are and where you come from is politically incorrect....I DON'T CARE ANYMORE...

We have a serious problem knocking on our door....we can pretend to be politically correct and allow the invaders their own space but that is the undoing....we are on the verge of a new crusade....but we are so dumbed down and distracted we do not see it for what it is....we try so hard to be tolerant and yet we face a foe that is not tolerant at all...it WILL kill you if you disagree with their foundations....

How do we reach out and touch the hearts and minds of those who have been dumbed down and distracted for so long? I cannot begin to explain the urgency of this....they are growing folks...they are recruiting and winning and we just tune it out and pretend it is not a real threat...so wrong...so incredibly wrong.

I want everyone to have freedom and liberty...I want everyone to be able to pray to whatever GOD they choose...or not ....it is a choice. BUT...these folks will not stand for that...THEY WILL KILL YOU AND YOUR FAMILY if you do not accept their world view...

how is this not being understood? How can we be so stupid to not see the threat here? Is it because we have became so tolerant we don't actually see a threat when it is in our face? "They have a right to believe what they want"....which is true...but when the seek to impose that on others with blood....that is a problem...is it not?

I want to see the old western empire rise up....show the world why we ...at one time....controlled the world....why is that?...because we had a hand as heavy as Thor's hammer....we forged the path to freedom...we did not play...we did not compromise. If you think that meeting extremism with lackadaisical action will win...you are a moron....

These radicals are not going to go away and they are growing in numbers every day...this is alarming to me....I don't understand why people are not more concerned and upset....they want to kill you and your freedom/equality ways of thinking....do you not get that?

YOu can sit on the mountaintop and pretend your views are cast in stone and all the world will see your wisdom...that is...until...some uneducated monster blows you up and flattens the mountaintop....

Do you not see the problem here?

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I am curious about something.

What happened to the England of old? The world conquering empire that...at one time...the sun never set on. Was it Merica that stole your thunder?

My family is Scott-Irish on my mothers side and German on my fathers side...I have no horse in this race as both families have been in "Merica" since the 1600's...The more I research my ancestry, the more in wonder I become...

I am curious...what caused Great Britain to back off and start letting countries resume their own control? Was it money? religion? Peer pressure from Merica? Was it the east india trading company undermining the crown?

Having ancestry in Ireland and Scotland...I am totally cool with them becoming sovereign (northern Ireland I mean)...even though they might not like it once they have it. I know Scotland is pushing for independence...to be honest, I thought they were already sovereign so that shows how much I follow the politics of Europe....I try but our politics are so frigged up...it's all I can do to pay attention here...

So...are we watching the final dismantling of the British Empire?

I am far more bummed out these days as to the state of Germany from an ancestral viewpoint...the Anglos and Saxons used to be some of the toughest people on the planet and now they seem to be lost...like all the flack they took over WW2 beat them into submission...that might not be politically correct to say, but just an observation. Are we really seeing the "new world order" taking over where national pride is forbidden and everyone must submit to the UN?

Just curious by the way...not meaning to insult anyone...

You need to research the second and third waves of globalisation.

Britain moved the world to the third wave of globalisation after WW2 because the best minds around at the time said with the development of tanks and aircraft it would be impossible to defend a scattered global empire. So with the new model of globalisation we opened up the Global South to capitalism for our major corporations.

Now our mining, oil and services sectors bring in the same GDP. Instead of us having forces stationed overseas at colonies we just need to dispatch them whenever one of the host nations starts trying to do us over on what was agreed. The UN is setup to open up the Global South for our purposes.

Thats why most of the worlds largest 50 mega corporations are owned by the British, Dutch, Austrailians, Canadians, Americans or a mixture of them. I dont think the US is fully independant from Britain. Politically it is but financially it isnt. The Virginia Company, which was chartered to colonise North America, not only still exists but is better known as the White House. It has been paying British banks interest on debt for a long, long, time.

Anyway what happened is the empire was given independance and we setup the UN in such a way that for countries to join the Internal Monetary Fund, World Trade Organisation, etc, they had to open up their economies to our multi-national corporations.

Edited by RabidMongoose
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I am curious about something.

What happened to the England of old? The world conquering empire that...at one time...the sun never set on. Was it Merica that stole your thunder?

Others have already answered, id just like to point out it was only 1997 when we gave Hong Kong back! And dont forget Britain was the only country to burn the White-house down and steal the Presidents clothes

"Throughout the history of the United States, the United Kingdom is the only country to have ever burned the White House or Washington, D.C., and this was the only time since the American Revolutionary War that a foreign power captured and occupied the United States capital"

eta link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_of_Washington

.

Edited by seeder
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I am just kinda p!ssed off...I am concerned.....

I look back across the vast history of this rock and I can see some commonalities....there is a reason we have done the things we have done....for better or for worse.

I look to my origins and though there is some ugly in there, I realize everything was done for a reason..even if the reason was madness at the time.

We have trouble coming....

Trouble in a form that we are not used to dealing with...well...not since the 13th and 14th century......do you not get this?

We are so poised to be smashed now....crushed....wiped from memory....yes, they can do that if they win.

You need to do some soul searching....I want to see a Charlemagne rise up...a Richard...an unforgiving and crushing force to stand for our way of life....freedom.

You in the UK might have some salt here and there for the struggle we pushed....but it is what it is and in the long run...everyone did better....

Now...we have an enemy that wants to remove all of those gains....and why people do not see the problem is beyond me....they wil kill you and your memory of "voting and liberty"...

OK...I did fall off topic...but not really....

It was the UK that spread the "idea" of the magna carta....it was not "Murica"....you guys did more to spread freedom than "murica" ever did.....we live in a wonderfully orchestrated alteration of the facts.....

Mark my words...if we do not declare a crusade against this threat and rally christian and non christian lovers of freedom....they will smash us into the dirt

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We developed a conscience. (it's still developing)

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It's a wake up call folks....

I realize that nationalism is frowned on now....that pride in who you are and where you come from is politically incorrect....I DON'T CARE ANYMORE...

We have a serious problem knocking on our door....we can pretend to be politically correct and allow the invaders their own space but that is the undoing....we are on the verge of a new crusade....but we are so dumbed down and distracted we do not see it for what it is....we try so hard to be tolerant and yet we face a foe that is not tolerant at all...it WILL kill you if you disagree with their foundations....

How do we reach out and touch the hearts and minds of those who have been dumbed down and distracted for so long? I cannot begin to explain the urgency of this....they are growing folks...they are recruiting and winning and we just tune it out and pretend it is not a real threat...so wrong...so incredibly wrong.

I want everyone to have freedom and liberty...I want everyone to be able to pray to whatever GOD they choose...or not ....it is a choice. BUT...these folks will not stand for that...THEY WILL KILL YOU AND YOUR FAMILY if you do not accept their world view...

how is this not being understood? How can we be so stupid to not see the threat here? Is it because we have became so tolerant we don't actually see a threat when it is in our face? "They have a right to believe what they want"....which is true...but when the seek to impose that on others with blood....that is a problem...is it not?

I want to see the old western empire rise up....show the world why we ...at one time....controlled the world....why is that?...because we had a hand as heavy as Thor's hammer....we forged the path to freedom...we did not play...we did not compromise. If you think that meeting extremism with lackadaisical action will win...you are a moron....

These radicals are not going to go away and they are growing in numbers every day...this is alarming to me....I don't understand why people are not more concerned and upset....they want to kill you and your freedom/equality ways of thinking....do you not get that?

YOu can sit on the mountaintop and pretend your views are cast in stone and all the world will see your wisdom...that is...until...some uneducated monster blows you up and flattens the mountaintop....

Do you not see the problem here?

We're not under threat in the sense you seem to think. our way of life isn't going to change because of Islamic terrorists. (if that's who your referring to.) I think your suffering from media overload which gives the impression Islamic terrorist's are winning their Jihadist war against the west - truth is they aren't winning anything. they are what terrorists always have been a minority of a minority who thanks to the modern age of the 24 hour media have a perception greater than their proportion than the actual reality.

If you look around the world today it is the West who are continuing to shaping the world. The great powers re-draw maps and borders create new countries with the stroke of the pen. No need for a crusade. infact a crusade is the last thing anyone needs. The West is safe in values we hold dear - and further still in the arms of Science over religion. Terrorism will always exist and always has, a battle which will never end but a battle which the terrorist will never win.

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We're not under threat in the sense you seem to think. our way of life isn't going to change because of Islamic terrorists. (if that's who your referring to.) I think your suffering from media overload which gives the impression Islamic terrorist's are winning their Jihadist war against the west - truth is they aren't winning anything. they are what terrorists always have been a minority of a minority who thanks to the modern age of the 24 hour media have a perception greater than their proportion than the actual reality.

If you look around the world today it is the West who are continuing to shaping the world. The great powers re-draw maps and borders create new countries with the stroke of the pen. No need for a crusade. infact a crusade is the last thing anyone needs. The West is safe in values we hold dear - and further still in the arms of Science over religion. Terrorism will always exist and always has, a battle which will never end but a battle which the terrorist will never win.

I wish I could believe that....

I see big problems coming....

In a faltering marriage...they call them "irreconcilable differences"....there is no peace with this....one side must win and one side must lose....what part of this do you not understand?

I am NOT going to give up my freedom in the name of peace...ever....put a bullet in my head now because there is no "co-existing" with evil....

If anyone thnks for a moment that these monsters will just "let it go"...you are living in a dream world....

I am quite capable of letting people do whatever it is that makes them happy...but when their fundamental view is to destroy that frame of thought...I have a problem with that....

Give me a Richard...a Charlemagne...a true leader that will protect and preserve the western way of life.

To be liked for not protecting those things is madness....I don't know the thought process of some of the folks on these boards...sometimes I think they are just agitators....if you thnk for a moment that Islam is going to co-exist with Judaism Christianity or even atheism...you are somewhere in the realm of moron....it's not going to happen....in their mind....absolute destruction in the name of Allah is all that matters...how can you be so stupid to not see this?

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I wish I could believe that....

I see big problems coming....

In a faltering marriage...they call them "irreconcilable differences"....there is no peace with this....one side must win and one side must lose....what part of this do you not understand?

I am NOT going to give up my freedom in the name of peace...ever....put a bullet in my head now because there is no "co-existing" with evil....

If anyone thnks for a moment that these monsters will just "let it go"...you are living in a dream world....

I am quite capable of letting people do whatever it is that makes them happy...but when their fundamental view is to destroy that frame of thought...I have a problem with that....

Give me a Richard...a Charlemagne...a true leader that will protect and preserve the western way of life.

To be liked for not protecting those things is madness....I don't know the thought process of some of the folks on these boards...sometimes I think they are just agitators....if you thnk for a moment that Islam is going to co-exist with Judaism Christianity or even atheism...you are somewhere in the realm of moron....it's not going to happen....in their mind....absolute destruction in the name of Allah is all that matters...how can you be so stupid to not see this?

1.6Billion moslems in the world how many are involved in Islamic terrorism? Do you have one example were Islamic extremist have achieved anything in the West? they haven't gained territory they haven't changed our way of life. so what exactly are you afraid of? you keep saying we need a crusade, the first crusade was 900 hundred years ago and who are we going to crusade against. who are we against and which country do we invade first?

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1.6Billion moslems in the world how many are involved in Islamic terrorism? Do you have one example were Islamic extremist have achieved anything in the West? they haven't gained territory they haven't changed our way of life. so what exactly are you afraid of? you keep saying we need a crusade, the first crusade was 900 hundred years ago and who are we going to crusade against. who are we against and which country do we invade first?

The British, Americans, Canadians, Australians and Dutch very much rule the world. We replaced large armies with multinational corporations backed up by smaller expeditionary forces deployed to protect our assets when needed. The French, Germans, Spannish and Japanese have one or two of the mega corporations but thats it.

As taught at university globalisation is actually the cause of Islamic terrorism. The reason being is its eroding away the cultural values of all Global South nations who open up their economies to our multinationals as a condition of becoming members of several of the organisations under the umbrella of the UN.

They want infrastructure investment? finances to cover large debts? access to international trade? It all comes with a cost and that is our mega corporations get to access to their economies. If they try to do us over like the Iranians, Iraqis and Libyans then they get done. No one is allowed to drop the petrodollar or annex the branches of British/Dutch oil companies in their countries. Naughty Iranians! They will be next.

Edited by RabidMongoose

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Clement Attlee's labor party took power in july, 1945, and over the next six years, gleefully dismantled the British Empire, to the consternation of Churchill and the conservatives, who did not regain power until 1951.

They dismantled it because by that time there was no alternative. Two huge wars had bankrupted and exhausted the country and the economy was broken. It is a matter of pride that the empire was surrendered with so little bloodshed and the commonwealth was built on the goodwill created.

The Age of Empire had passed, and Atlee recognised it. The country had neither the will nor the means to oppose the rising tide of independence.

It would be interesting to speculate, though, how long it might have lasted without the 1914-18 and 1939-45 wars which themselves created the Cold War. The terrible twentieth century.

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They dismantled it because by that time there was no alternative. Two huge wars had bankrupted and exhausted the country and the economy was broken. It is a matter of pride that the empire was surrendered with so little bloodshed and the commonwealth was built on the goodwill created.

The Age of Empire had passed, and Atlee recognised it. The country had neither the will nor the means to oppose the rising tide of independence.

It would be interesting to speculate, though, how long it might have lasted without the 1914-18 and 1939-45 wars which themselves created the Cold War. The terrible twentieth century.

That simply isnt true - http://www.corpwatch...cle.php?id=1569

That article gives the history of globalisation. First wave - colonialism, second wave - colonialism swapped for international trade, third wave - Growth of multinationals into mega corporations monopolising international trade. At the end of WW2 the Bretton Woods Conference was held where the second and coming third wave were basically initiated.

If you give people their freedom but a large chunk of their GDP finds its way back to you through your multinational corporations then in effect you achieve the same outcome as colonialism without needing vast armies. If you also dictate to them how they must open up their economies to your multinational corporations if they want funding from UN organisations you have things stitched up nicely.

If we want to be exact then multinationals actually existed in the first wave too. They were chartered companies like the British/Dutch East India Company. But they were colonial not just about trade because the boffins back then hadn't figured out how to tie countries down using equivelents of the UN.

These days we don't need to invade, conquer and maintain our presence using military power to trade. They choose to let us in. We only send the troops when the host nations start causing us problems like Libya deciding to nationalise its branch of BP and drop the petrodollar.

Edited by RabidMongoose

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That simply isnt true - http://www.corpwatch...cle.php?id=1569

That article gives the history of globalisation. First wave - colonialism, second wave - colonialism swapped for international trade, third wave - Growth of multinationals into mega corporations monopolising international trade. At the end of WW2 the Bretton Woods Conference was held where the second and coming third wave were basically initiated.

If you give people their freedom but a large chunk of their GDP finds its way back to you through your multinational corporations then in effect you achieve the same outcome as colonialism without needing vast armies. If you also dictate to them how they must open up their economies to your multinational corporations if they want funding from UN organisations you have things stitched up nicely.

If we want to be exact then multinationals actually existed in the first wave too. They were chartered companies like the British/Dutch East India Company. But they were colonial not just about trade because the boffins back then hadn't figured out how to tie countries down using equivelents of the UN.

These days we don't need to invade, conquer and maintain our presence using military power to trade. They choose to let us in. We only send the troops when the host nations start causing us problems like Libya deciding to nationalise its branch of BP and drop the petrodollar.

What part of my post simply isn't true?

Your talking about multinational companies, I am talking about the UK economy, deep in debt and deep in trouble after a war for survival, with the infrastructure of the county warn out, bombed out or just plain obsolete.

So what part of my post is not true?

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WW1 killed our trade, with countries not able to trade with us they found new ways of getting or building what we was exporting....that cost us heavily, and whilst we might have turned Germany to rubble during WW2, they bankrupt us....it was 2 massive hits that we never recovered from. So time to rethink and do things another way, or go the way of every other empire that ever existed....I think we've done pretty well so far to still be semi-relevant on the worlds stage after losing so much.

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WW1 killed our trade, with countries not able to trade with us they found new ways of getting or building what we was exporting....that cost us heavily, and whilst we might have turned Germany to rubble during WW2, they bankrupt us....it was 2 massive hits that we never recovered from. So time to rethink and do things another way, or go the way of every other empire that ever existed....I think we've done pretty well so far to still be semi-relevant on the worlds stage after losing so much.

Back in the day the New world was on offer untold riches and wealth lay ahead waiting to be discovered and reaped. truth is and trouble was we run out of the New World and it soon become the old World. once it becomes the old World it stops making you money and starts costing you money at this point the writing is on the wall and its only going to go one way.

The British empire had to adapt, and its something we do well. It was clear the change in the way global trade and business was conducted meant we had to forge a new path. In the modern world as a small country we have to be that little bit more cleverer than the rest. If you look at the top six world economies USA, China, Japan, Germany and France. all have landmasses and populations bigger than the UK. in these modern times ask the question how can a country the size of the UK, ranked way down in 81st position when it comes to size of landmass and ranked 22nd by population size, a population of 0.89% of world population continue to maintain its position in the top six of world economies. It just shouldn't happen. But it does. the next trick is to be at the forefront of the next global economic driver of world economy. what they'll be im unable to answer.

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