Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -

The Trophy Hunter/The Bedsit Murders


Greg Santini

Recommended Posts

These crimes took place very close to where I lived back in 1987, I was around 9 years old at the time.

Some links:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/serial-killer-murdered-wendy-knell-905508

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/serial-killer-murdered-wendy-knell-905508

Some cliff-notes:

Victims were two young females who lived in Tunbridge Wells, they both worked on the same road (Camden Road) and were murdered 5 months apart from each other. Both lived on their own in bedsits/flats and were 'similar' in looks. They were also sexually assaulted, whether before or after the murder I cannot confirm.

The killer seemed to be a trophy collector, so took items such as keys etc. from his victims.

Police were able to come up with a DNA profile back in 2007 but after testing over 500 men it looks like the case has stalled. There has certainly been no updates online since 2012.

To date, no-one has been nailed for the crimes.

I'd forgotten all about this case until a watched a crimewatch reconstruction back in 2007. For some unknown reason, I had assumed they had caught someone shortly after the second murder. I put this confusion down to there being a rape in the town shortly after the second women went missing. Police actually arrested someone in connection BUT nothing came of it, I assume the guy was released without charge.

A few days before the murder of Knell, a man knocked on the door of a neighbour and warned her about leaving windows open? Why on earth would any sane person do that? Very weird, and police released a photo-fit of this man.

From what I can remember at the time, the town was plagued with reports of peeping toms and prowlers but am not sure if those reports were related to the murders.

There had been some speculation that Tobin or Bellfied was the murderer, but that had been dismissed by the police. At the time of the potential Tobin link, there was an article in the Daily Express which went further into the circumstances surrounding the 2nd woman's death. In that when she was dropped off at home by a taxi, neighbours heard screams but no-one came out to investigate. The taxi driver heard nothing as he pulled away. A few weeks later she was found in a ditch over Romney Marsh area.

Romney Marsh, and the location she was found is a pretty desolate area and tricky to navigate if you don't know the area - so the murderer had to have intimate knowledge of that area.

The crimes then stopped, but did they?

Here's an interesting thing I came across whilst reading up on other mysteries at that time. Near enough a year to the day Knell was murdered, a young girl in Brighton vanished (along with her car): Louise Kay. When reading up on this, the hot money seemed to be on a link with Peter Tobin. However, I'm starting to think otherwise, of course this is just amateur speculation on my part. The thing that gets me about the murders in Tunbridge Wells is that both were committed near enough in the last week of the month and close to the same days - just like the disappearance of Louise Kay. So, to summarise:

Knell: 23rd June 1987

Pierce: 24th November 1987

Kay: 24th June 1988

Geographically, Brighton is not that far from Tunbridge Wells. OK, it's just dates and idle speculation, but I'm not convinced that the murderer just 'stopped' murdering. Looking into the murders in TW, it's apparent that the murderer was/is quite a sadistic SOB - which is obvious for a murderer, but his modus operandi was brutal to say the least - blunt instrument and strangulation. OK, I'm overstating the obvious, but the guy obviously had a screw loose so am somewhat curious of how he could just explode with such brutality and then stop.

So where is he now? Dead? In prison? It's certainly a strange one, and at the time I remember the town being gripped with fear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Yes, where is he now? These types don't just stop, in fact they perfect their skills over time. Could the heat of possible DNA testing have caused the person to move? It's strange that there isn't a record of the same types of murders continuing elsewhere. They could be in jail on an unrelated crime, I think the U.K. really needs to consider mandatory DNA testing of all convicted criminals and a national database, it seems like a simple step in discovering who this is has been overlooked somewhere along the way - that is the most mysterious aspect, that the case is so cold.

Do you know if it is still actively being investigated at all?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, where is he now? These types don't just stop, in fact they perfect their skills over time. Could the heat of possible DNA testing have caused the person to move? It's strange that there isn't a record of the same types of murders continuing elsewhere. They could be in jail on an unrelated crime, I think the U.K. really needs to consider mandatory DNA testing of all convicted criminals and a national database, it seems like a simple step in discovering who this is has been overlooked somewhere along the way - that is the most mysterious aspect, that the case is so cold.

Do you know if it is still actively being investigated at all?

I think you make a good point there. During my amateurish research (a couple of beers and Google searching) I did come across another murder which took place around the same time as the 2nd murder in Tunbridge Wells. It's at this link here http://www.crimezzz....solved_1987.php

In June of 1987, Wendy Knell, a 25-year-old shop manager, was raped and murdered in her London flat. Five months later, on November 24, with that case still unsolved, police received a missing-person report on 20-year-old Caroline Pierce, a London restaurant manager. Her body was found near St. Mary, on December 15, and police publicly speculated on a connection between the two killings. On November 29, an unnamed suspect in the case of Wendy Knell was charged with rape, but his incarceration did not halt the rash of murders. Three days after Caroline Pierce was discovered, searchers at Colchester -- fifty miles northeast of London -- retrieved the decomposing remains of 18-year-old Fiona Gallant from the slope of a highway embankment. As in London, the Colchester case was believed to be linked with an on-going series of rapes in the area. At this writing, no solution has been announced for the murders in London and Colchester. Police refuse to speculate on possible links between Fiona Gallant's death and the crimes in London, while the killer (or killers) remains at large.

Now apart from getting the locations incorrect (London instead of TW), the author of that article mentions Fiona Gallant whose body was found a few days after the discovery of the 2nd girl who was murdered in TW. So I did some research, and it turns out Essex Police had solved the Fiona Gallant case back in 96 which I think was a few years before mandotory DNA samples of folk who get arrested. Here are the details:

post-150532-0-82955700-1410696762_thumb.

I've snipped that from a PDF located at http://www.essex.pol...aw/n_9311lw.pdf There is also some interesting information about the Fiona Gallant murder at http://webarchive.na...s/144_13864.htm

The above is interesting in that he commited a murder around the same time with strangulation being one of his methods. Also a truck driver too, so could have been here and there in SE England a lot of the time. But again, just speculation.

I don't think it's being investigated anymore because the whole thing was part of a Cold Case funding grant from the Government. I believe the Tiltman murder was also part of the cold cases review and I believe Kent Police did solve another cold case where they identified a murderer through DNA but found he is now dead. However, before 2007, there is literally nothing about this case on the net. Apart from one article I found on the Times Online Archive which mentioned Kent Police visiting a British national in Italy who was known as the Begger King or the King of Beggers. Apparently, he had used a rock to smash the head in of a young girl and (if memory serves me correct) he had also been convicted or was a suspect in an early 80s rape crime in TW - Kent Police apparently suspected a link between him and the 1987 murders. But apart from that, I've found nothing else of relevance.

I don't think he would have high-tailed it in 2007 on the discovery of DNA. My suspicion is that he bailed out way before the end of the 80s. I don't even think he lived in the town, rather that 'something' brought him there at those particular times with the link being the road (retail outlets) where the girls worked. But again, just suspicion I'm afraid.

So yeah, either dead or locked up for something else.

Edited by Greg Santini
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

These crimes took place very close to where I lived back in 1987, I was around 9 years old at the time.

The killer seemed to be a trophy collector, so took items such as keys etc. from his victims.

Police were able to come up with a DNA profile back in 2007 but after testing over 500 men it looks of that area.

The crimes then stopped, but did they?

Knell: 23rd June 1987

Pierce: 24th November 1987

Kay: 24th June 1988

So where is he now? Dead? In prison? It's certainly a strange one, and at the time I remember the town being gripped with fear.

I think this is an interesting case. I looked into it a little just a bit ago and see that Louise Kay has never been found so they cannot compare DNA with Tobin. I think the article i found said Tobin was working near where she disappeared at that time. I know the UK was ahead of everyone else on DNA and the articles I have found said they continued to retest the evidence as technology improved. I do think Kay was most likely a victim of Tobin, and the other two fit somewhat but they said DNA cleared him. I wonder if they actually went back to the original evidence to get new samples for DNA testing. I would agree that someone who would do these types of crimes would not stop unless dead or in prison. It could be they changed location. One article, I think from 2009 or 2010 said the UK does participate in a DNA data base of offenders that included dna from other European countries as well as the UK but still no match. Is there anything unusual about this area, such as military bases or universities nearby?

Edited by mbrn30000
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think this is an interesting case. I looked into it a little just a bit ago and see that Louise Kay has never been found so they cannot compare DNA with Tobin. I think the article i found said Tobin was working near where she disappeared at that time. I know the UK was ahead of everyone else on DNA and the articles I have found said they continued to retest the evidence as technology improved. I do think Kay was most likely a victim of Tobin, and the other two fit somewhat but they said DNA cleared him. I wonder if they actually went back to the original evidence to get new samples for DNA testing. I would agree that someone who would do these types of crimes would not stop unless dead or in prison. It could be they changed location. One article, I think from 2009 or 2010 said the UK does participate in a DNA data base of offenders that included dna from other European countries as well as the UK but still no match. Is there anything unusual about this area, such as military bases or universities nearby?

I think it's the 'date' which got me, in that Louise Kay went missing near enough a year to the day the first victim in TW was murdered. But then my brain kicks in that Tobin seemed to me as more of an opportunist rather than someone who 'planned'. Perhaps, Louise Kay's car broke down and with him working possibly shift work came across her in the early hours? But not only has she not been found, nor has the car. But one thing is for sure and that is Tobin ain't talking.

But back to the TW murders. No nothing is unusual about the area. However, there is one thing which I *think* sticks out like a sore thumb and that is the construction of the Royal Victoria Shopping Centre smack bang in the middle of the town. Preliminary building work such as demolitions and stuff would have started around early 1987 - I believe this project would have brought 'new' people into the town. And from what I've read, the Storm of 87 (mid-October) caused a lot of damage to building apparatus such as cranes etc. About a month after that storm the 2nd murder took place. Also, the construction sites were very close to the road where the two women worked. That road in particular was quite stuffed full of all sorts of small shops, rather like a market street.

My amateur on and off research has lead me to believe that 'something' brought this individual into the town - possibly a labourer? The 2nd victim was dumped in Romney Marsh so he must have known that area fairly well to make such a long drive to hide the body? The 'trades' in that area are farming and the odd pub here and there. But again, more questions arise. The first victim was murdered in her flat/.bedsit, did he intend to do the same with the 2nd but possibly botched it up?

From what I've read, the 2nd victim was jumped whilst approaching the door (a side entrance to a basement dwelling) to her flat/bedsit. Did she spot him before she opened the door? I state this because (according to newspapers from the time) neighbours heard screams but when they looked out the window they saw a car slowly reversing down the 'unlit' cul-de-sac (it was a dead end, and the car was facing the dead end), a neighbour reported the visibility as 'pitch darkness'. A neighbour returning home had seen the same car parked outside a few minutes or so before the victim was dropped off by the taxi, but with no-one in it.

I'm just curious as to why someone would park their car in a front facing a direction which would make a quick getaway difficult - due to reversing out of the dead end? Surely you would park facing forwards towards the exit route in the event something didn't 'go to plan'? I got this info via a newspaper archive (paid). So I'm confident the information is accurate. What is odd is that I could not find anything about neighbours possibly hearing a car door close, or a boot? Back in those days, many dwellings were single glazed so hearing something outside would have been easy for those inside.

But my suspicions are it was a botched attack. With regards to the first victim, no-one else in the adjoining flats/bedsits heard a sound.

With regards to the 'unlit' mention, back then street lights on minor roads would switch off before midnight. These days they remain switched on till 5am or a little longer.

Edited by Greg Santini
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's the 'date' which got me, in that Louise Kay went missing near enough a year to the day the first victim in TW was murdered. But then my brain kicks in that Tobin seemed to me as more of an opportunist rather than someone who 'planned'. Perhaps, Louise Kay's car broke down and with him working possibly shift work came across her in the early hours? But not only has she not been found, nor has the car.

Looking at the area where she disappeared I see not only the sea but all the other bodies of water...i live in florida and from time to time we have people go missing, sometimes elderly...only to be found at the bottom of a retention pond or canal days or even years later. I would think if she was a victim and the car has not been found, it might be at the bottom of some lake or pond. If she had an accident, I wonder if anyone checked bodies of water she would have passed near on her way home that night. He seem to bury some of his victims, but the car is something new. Maybe some newspaper articles from the search days might shed light on what police thought and did then. I need to take a look.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have done a little more reading. The oldest story I can find was 2005 so far. It makes no mention of Tobin. It seems she was in Eastbourne at a club, dropped her friend off nearby at Watts Lane at 4:00 am then must have driven towards Polegate since that is where she lived. By map it is around 6 miles away. Not very far. I wish I could find out what the first stories were. When did they report her missing, and who did it? She was out with friends including her boyfriend. I am sure the police treated it much like police treat missing adults...at first saying she probably went to a friends house, or something. I wonder how much they looked at those other friends, especially the boyfriend's whereabouts. Tobin was living about 25 miles away but worked at a hotel near the club I guess. Was there any other case he is suspected of where he took the person in their vehicle? It would seem if she broke down, the car would have been left there. He seems to take the bodies and probably does some ritual, given he buried two in his garden i think it said. So why was this so different? And the family did not see any of Louise's possessions among the many trophies they found. I am thinking Louise was either the victim of some strange accident and her car is at the bottom of a pond, or the boyfriend played a role...or perhaps some one time killing by some creepy local. i did notice looking at the map that Polegate is surrounded by woods and farmland...plenty of places to stash even a car. I am thinking she did not breakdown, but more than likely she met someone she knew, or was asked for a ride by maybe a local she recognized at least. I bet the car is somewhere close by either in some thick brush or under water. But if it were a murder and not by Tobin then those other two cases you mentioned could still be related.

http://www.theargus....7_year_mystery/

Edited by mbrn30000
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have done a little more reading. The oldest story I can find was 2005 so far. It makes no mention of Tobin. It seems she was in Eastbourne at a club, dropped her friend off nearby at Watts Lane at 4:00 am then must have driven towards Polegate since that is where she lived. By map it is around 6 miles away. Not very far. I wish I could find out what the first stories were. When did they report her missing, and who did it? She was out with friends including her boyfriend. I am sure the police treated it much like police treat missing adults...at first saying she probably went to a friends house, or something. I wonder how much they looked at those other friends, especially the boyfriend's whereabouts. Tobin was living about 25 miles away but worked at a hotel near the club I guess. Was there any other case he is suspected of where he took the person in their vehicle? It would seem if she broke down, the car would have been left there. He seems to take the bodies and probably does some ritual, given he buried two in his garden i think it said. So why was this so different? And the family did not see any of Louise's possessions among the many trophies they found. I am thinking Louise was either the victim of some strange accident and her car is at the bottom of a pond, or the boyfriend played a role...or perhaps some one time killing by some creepy local. i did notice looking at the map that Polegate is surrounded by woods and farmland...plenty of places to stash even a car. I am thinking she did not breakdown, but more than likely she met someone she knew, or was asked for a ride by maybe a local she recognized at least. I bet the car is somewhere close by either in some thick brush or under water. But if it were a murder and not by Tobin then those other two cases you mentioned could still be related.

http://www.theargus....7_year_mystery/

Have to admit its even got the wife intrigued too although she's not convinced of the Kay link.

Thanks for that article, I think i had skipped past that one before.

Edited by Greg Santini
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

Hi guys I know this thread has dropped a bit but this is my first post but I am working directly opposite Wendy Knells basement flat ....I was told the number was 12 Guildford Road ...I am an amateur detective as such but I took some photos of the path behind the flats also to the side ...It is an absolute rat warren of paths everywhere around there and whoever killed poor Wendy would have an easy escape without doubt ...Also does anyone know where I can view the reconstruction on the murder that was released in August 2007 on uk called Crimewatch uk ....This case needs to be solved

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 6 months later...

Hey I realise this is an old thread but having searched for Louise I found this site.

i grew up with Louise and we were firm friends all our lives. I hadn't seen so much of her and Sarah who she dropped off before she went missing because I had met someone and was a dad or about to be.

When this happened our group of friends divided and no one spoke about it. I have my doubts about the boyfriend and can't seem to find who he is but am going to try. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welcome to UM Sarahk :st Please, take time to read the site rules, they are located in the upper left corner under the forums tab, and here: http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/guidelines/

I'm not going to answer you specifically on the bedsit murders, since you already posted your question there and it's cross-posting to ask it again here- that's against the rules.

 

However.. How to members here on UM get their cold case information? Old newspaper articles, official reports, books, blogs and websites that have the case studied on them... we used to have a member here that had access to a large detective periodical collection and sourced that a lot for tidbits. Occasionally we get members that pop in and say they were involved in the case somehow, like they knew the victim or murderer, or a relation of theirs was close to one of them, or that they grew up in the area when it was happening and they remember things.

Some cold cases just have more or less information about them out there. Sometimes there's just enough that supposition takes over too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Sarahk, welcome to UM :). Is there something in particular that you are trying to find out? I ask because if you Google 'bedsit murders UK' there seems to be plenty of reports about them. What is it that you have been unable to find? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

That's a horrible situation to be in, you have my sympathy. I don't think you've done anything wrong, Rashore asks all newbies to read the rules, to try and avoid unpleasant situations arising. Have you asked the Police Force involved if they have had any new information? Perhaps if you explained the situation they might make a bit of an effort to help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since this thread was opened as a continuation of a thread already being discussed, and seems to be continuning in that trend, I'm merging this thread into the original Bedsit murders.

 

Threads merged, sorry for any disruption in discussion folks.

 

Rashore, moderating team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Sarahk said:

Thank you for your help rashore and I'm sorry again for my mistake x

Yer all good Sarah :) You are new.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Sarahk said:

 We obviously know the main details of it but I have seen a few forums where people have spoken about things we had never heard before so I was hoping people could give me information that we could then question the police on. If that makes any sense?

Well, no, quite frankly, it doesn't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds like you are having some resource and research problems. Need help building a casebook perhaps? I'm going to take it from that angle.

 

First off, start off with a basic framework of the case. Don't try to chase tails yet. Write down what you really know it true, what is rumor or unproven, and what has been disproven.

From there. Sounds like you are local enough to have access to the libraries around the area? Check with them for old newspaper articles about it. Most libraries have a media room with archives like that. If you can do it online, check the nearest big city newspapers- you can sometimes pick up some interesting tidbits between the two sources.

Then start filling in details of your framework based off that research.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, Sarahk said:

Ok so it doesn't make sense that we are looking for any information people may have heard over time?

It doesn't make sense to me that you could expect backup from anyone here re: info which is provided by others "at a few forums".

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Allrighty then, you have some of the physical local news, good.

Don't know what search engine you use... but specifically keyword in "bedsit murders turnbridge wells 1987". And if you can, refine that with the news only option. I'm in the U.S., so my search engine refines through those channels- your searches will possibly bring up stuff I won't find.

 

But some articles that came up when I searched...

BBC 2012: Appeal over Tunbridge Wells double killer 25 years on: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-kent-18532610

BBC 2010: Hunt for 1987 double killer continues: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/kent/8453919.stm

BBC 2007: Names suggested over 1987 murders: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/kent/6957446.stm

BBC 2007: DNA profile for cold case killer : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/kent/6954760.stm

 

And geez Regi, lay off. Sarah is new and is looking for help on how to put things together and with some research.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Sarahk said:

I have used google and also my nan had some of the old newspare clippings but a lot have been lost after she moved house.

The things that confuse me is my family have been told different to what the newspapers etc say so if I look through the differences do you think that might help at all or would I be wasting my time? 

Sorry regi that's my fault you got confused my original question was "could you tell me where you get your information from" asking where people get their info from as in is there any other method they use other than the methods I have been using

To my knowledge no one here has insider knowledge of the case- and I don't know why you'd assume anyone would- if that's what you're asking.

Edited by regi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, rashore said:

Sounds like you are having some resource and research problems. Need help building a casebook perhaps? I'm going to take it from that angle.

 

As she's related to the victim. . .I'd say her interest is more. . .personal. . .

17 minutes ago, Sarahk said:

I guess I haven't really explained myself very well you have just done it for me perfectly rashore. Thank you. The truth is I've never been on a forum before and I've only signed up because there are so many people who sound like they have legitimate leads that are at least worth talking about!

Yes we are all local we have all lived in Tonbridge our whole lives my auntie did to bit moved to a bedsit in Tunbridge wells so she could have more privacy with her then boyfriend Ian. I have been to the library and they were very nice and showed me the newspaper clippings from back then but we have no idea where else to look so I was wondering where people were going is it websites etc? My grandad has recently appealed on a radio station here too. 

This is the Timewarrior speaking.  Welcome to the Internet.  It's mostly filled with useless and pointless information.  The internet is full of forums  filled with trolls, morons and feebs. . .This forum, however, does seem to have some rather intelligent (and some equally frustratingly stupid) individuals.  While I can't speak for many, I frequent this forum because I am fascinated by both solved and unsolved cases. . .mostly the unsolved ones. . .'

That said, the majority of what we talk about is either rumor, speculation or based on the information presented by the police or court systems to the public via news reports or public reports. . .I mostly focus on the validity of the evidence that has been presented or the holes present in the prosecution's case. . .

Not sure how much assistance you'll find here. . .but I'm sure most people here should be willing and able to help you.  

I am sorry to hear of your loss.   We would all like to take your pain away by solving this if we could for you.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

6 minutes ago, Sarahk said:

Sorry, firstly I haven't assumed anything I've never been here before and knew people had been talking about it so I was enquiring. But I was actually asking how people got information about cases in general and if they had any tips on doing so that is all. 

Please stop apologizing...my suggestion would be to seek advise from an attorney re: access to police files/investigative documents.

Edited by regi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, regi said:

To my knowledge no one here has insider knowledge of the case- and I don't know why you'd assume anyone would- if that's what you're asking.

I have insider knowledge on everything.  I just choose not to share it with you or anyone else.  

 

5 minutes ago, Sarahk said:

Sorry, firstly I haven't assumed anything I've never been here before and knew people had been talking about it so I was enquiring. But I was actually asking how people got information about cases in general and if they had any tips on doing so that is all. 

You don't need to apologize.   Rule 6, never apologize.   If people here won't and can't help you, then ignore them. . .and if they are not nice. . .don't pay attention to them. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • The topic was locked
 
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.