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Murder of Hae Min Lee


petermattson

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"Baltimore, 1999. Hae Min Lee, a popular high-school senior, disappears after school one day. Six weeks later detectives arrest her classmate and ex-boyfriend, Adnan Syed, for her murder. He says he's innocent - though he can't exactly remember what he was doing on that January afternoon. But someone can. A classmate at Woodlawn High School says she knows where Adnan was. The trouble is, she’s nowhere to be found."

I was not able to find any posts about this case and I assume many true crime aficionados would be interested. If there is already a thread about this please feel free to merge it. The folks at Serial have completed 6 episodes already with the 7th coming out this Thursday, November 6. The podcast for those unfamiliar with it --------> http://serialpodcast.org/season-one/1/the-alibi

Edited by petermattson
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I hadn't heard of this case. Thanks for posting it, petermattson!

I've listened to the first six episodes and I'm looking forward the next one. :yes:

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I hadn't heard of this case. Thanks for posting it, petermattson!

I've listened to the first six episodes and I'm looking forward the next one. :yes:

It's quite addicting!

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It's quite addicting!

Indeed, and it's cases like this one that most intrigue me and although I've already concluded, I'm still anxious to hear what else is presented and to hear their final conclusions.

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Episode 7 is out today! http://serialpodcast.org/

This is a great forum to ask questions and get potential answers.

My biggest question is about THE NINA CALL. I find her testimony unreliable and the podcast did not explore the possibility that someone else (besides Nina) could have answered her phone (thus accounting for the 2 + minutes on the call log). If Adnan's phone had Nina's number in speed dial (which he says it did), it's certainly possible that number could have been called by accident and picked up by someone other than Nina that day. Nina seems to be remembering a different call, based on her testimony. Anyone who had a cellphone in 1999 can relate to the fact that it was much easier to accidentally dial a number on those early models. I'm not saying this is proof of anything but in my mind it makes THE NINA CALL less damning than Sarah Koenig thinks it is.

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Corrected. I meant Nisha not Nina.

My biggest question is about THE NISHA CALL. I find her testimony unreliable and the podcast did not explore the possibility that someone else (besides Nisha) could have answered her phone (thus accounting for the 2 + minutes on the call log). If Adnan's phone had Nisha's number in speed dial (which he says it did), it's certainly possible that number could have been called by accident and picked up by someone other than Nisha that day. Nisha seems to be remembering a different call, based on her testimony. Anyone who had a cellphone in 1999 can relate to the fact that it was much easier to accidentally dial a number on those early models. I'm not saying this is proof of anything but in my mind it makes THE NISHA CALL less damning than Sarah Koenig thinks it is.

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I think that call is highly incriminating, but to me, I find the circumstance surrounding Steph's birthday present at least as incriminating.

Yeah, I believe Jay that Adnan accompanied him to buy Steph a present before school was out, which not only contradicts what Adnan said, but eliminates Adnan's reason he left his car with Jay.

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I've been going over the cell record together with Jay's account and I'm not in agreement that the pick-up call was at 2:36.

The thing is, I don't think it's accurate that the 3:21 call was the call that occurred after the Park and Ride, as Jay testified to.

It appears to me that the call after the Park and Ride would have been the 4:12 call.

Edit: Sorry. :blush: I was referring to the two calls to Jenn: one at 3:21pm and the next one at 4:12pm.

Edited by regi
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I've been going over the cell record together with Jay's account and I'm not in agreement that the pick-up call was at 2:36.

The thing is, I don't think it's accurate that the 3:21 call was the call that occurred after the Park and Ride, as Jay testified to.

It appears to me that the call after the Park and Ride would have been the 4:12 call.

Edit: Sorry. :blush: I was referring to the two calls to Jenn: one at 3:21pm and the next one at 4:12pm.

Two questions:

1. What do you think it means that Jenn's pick-up call was the later one?

2. What do you think of Jenn first telling the police she knew nothing on Feb. 26 and then saying Jay told her Adnan killed Hae in her interview on Feb. 27?

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What strikes me as odd when looking at the call log is the 5 calls that are 3 seconds or less (three to Krista and two to Hae) and even more intriguing is the fact that between 11:07 pm on 1/12 and 12:35 am on 1/13, Adnan makes 4 calls which all ping different cell towers. Does that mean he was on the road or is this just possibly the way different cell towers pick up calls?

The first of the 4 calls (to Krista at 11:07 pm) pings the tower near the high school but also close to Adnan's house.

The second call (to Hae at 11:27 pm) pings the tower along route 95, far from Adnan's house.

The third call (to Hae at 12:01 am) pings the tower at the intersection of 2 and 40, even farther from Adnan's house.

The fourth call (to Hae at 12:35 am) pings the tower at the intersection of 695 and 40, which would be on the route back to Adnan's house.

Forgive me if this was covered in one of the podcasts (I don't remember) but does this confirm that Adnan was driving around very late at night before the day he killed Hae?

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What do you think it means that Jenn's pick-up call was the later one?

Do you mean when Jenn picked-up Jay from where evidence was dumped?

What do you think of Jenn first telling the police she knew nothing on Feb. 26 and then saying Jay told her Adnan killed Hae in her interview on Feb. 27?

I consider that Jenn and Jay knew full well that they were accessories in a murder and so I take that into consideration when I weigh their credibility.

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Do you mean when Jenn picked-up Jay from where evidence was dumped?

Yes. Are you saying it's significant because it allows for more time to commit the murder and dispose of evidence? I'm also curious as to why you think Jay is mistaken about which call was the pick-up call.

I'm not disagreeing. I just want to understand your reasoning.

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What strikes me as odd when looking at the call log is the 5 calls that are 3 seconds or less (three to Krista and two to Hae) and even more intriguing is the fact that between 11:07 pm on 1/12 and 12:35 am on 1/13, Adnan makes 4 calls which all ping different cell towers. Does that mean he was on the road or is this just possibly the way different cell towers pick up calls?

I don't know what could be determined by that info., except that Adnan was definitely awake and awake rather late (I think.)

I remember it was stated in one of the episodes that cell towers are most helpful in determining where a cell phone is not located... :blink:

Edited by regi
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Are you saying it's significant because it allows for more time to commit the murder and dispose of evidence?

First, we're not referring to the same call. The call you're referring to occurred much later.

My point was that I think Jay was testifying to the 4:12 call to Jenn, not the 3:21 call...which would extend the time-frame in which the murder occurred.

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First, we're not referring to the same call. The call you're referring to occurred much later.

My point was that I think Jay was testifying to the 4:12 call to Jenn, not the 3:21 call...which would extend the time-frame in which the murder occurred.

That's what I thought you were saying. But just to clarify, Jay's 4:12 call makes the murder scenario laid out by Jay much more plausible because the initial time frame left a very tight window for Adnan to commit the murder?

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Referring to my earlier post about Adnan's cell phone pinging all over the place late at night before the day Hae was murdered...I wonder where Hae's house was. It's not on the map of key locations. Is it possible he was driving past her house that night? If we are to believe he planned the murder, and not that it was an impulsive act, could he have been stalking her or maybe checking to see if she was home or at Don's house? I think it would be helpful to know where Hae lived and where Don lived. Thoughts?

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That's what I thought you were saying. But just to clarify, Jay's 4:12 call makes the murder scenario laid out by Jay much more plausible because the initial time frame left a very tight window for Adnan to commit the murder?

Yes.

I think it makes more sense that the 3:15 call was the pick-up call and that for some unknown reason, Jay then called Jenn at 3:21.

The call to Nisha followed 11 minutes later, which was the time it took Sarah and Dana to drive from the Best Buy to the Park and Ride.

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Referring to my earlier post about Adnan's cell phone pinging all over the place late at night before the day Hae was murdered...I wonder where Hae's house was. It's not on the map of key locations. Is it possible he was driving past her house that night? If we are to believe he planned the murder, and not that it was an impulsive act, could he have been stalking her or maybe checking to see if she was home or at Don's house? I think it would be helpful to know where Hae lived and where Don lived. Thoughts?

Oh, my thoughts are that those are very good questions! I think if we knew where Hae and Don lived- what they were doing/where they were the night before, then it might help paint a picture. :tu:

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I'm also curious as to why you think Jay is mistaken about which call was the pick-up call.

(Sorry I missed this earlier) I'm not aware that Jay actually identified the time he got the pick-up call. :unsure2:

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No luck on Hae's address (and little hope of finding it honestly) but I believe I've found Jay's criminal record. (Since I can't confirm this is him I won't post a link or his last name here.) If this is the correct Jay, he was picked up for disorderly conduct and resisting arrest on January 27, 1999. There is no record of this particular Jay being arrested prior to this date. If I'm correct, this arrest would have been about two weeks before Hae's body was found. I'm not suggesting this means anything in particular but it has not been mentioned on the podcast as of yet. (The next episode is all about Jay, however.)

I'm hoping someone with a LEO or legal background can explain the following:

For both charges (disorderly conduct and resisting arrest), the disposition is listed as STET and the plea is listed as OTHER PLEA. The disposition date is 03-05-1999. The complainant is listed as "complainant/police officer."

I do not intend to defame Jay but I'm genuinely curious what the well-informed contributors in this forum can interpret this as. Thanks!

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I've been going over the cell record together with Jay's account and I'm not in agreement that the pick-up call was at 2:36.

The thing is, I don't think it's accurate that the 3:21 call was the call that occurred after the Park and Ride, as Jay testified to.

It appears to me that the call after the Park and Ride would have been the 4:12 call.

Edit: Sorry. :blush: I was referring to the two calls to Jenn: one at 3:21pm and the next one at 4:12pm.

(Sorry I missed this earlier) I'm not aware that Jay actually identified the time he got the pick-up call. :unsure2:

I'm not sure to what you were referring in the first post? Not Jay's account of events but the prosecutor's?

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I'm not sure to what you were referring in the first post? Not Jay's account of events but the prosecutor's?

I was referring to info. that came from Jay, which inferred that the pick-up call was at 2:36.

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The reason Jay gives the police for not coming forward earlier is that he had prior run-ins with the law (perhaps as a juvenile which may be expunged now) but if this Jay is the one I've found he was arrested 2 weeks after the murder (as a 19-year-old) and then came to the police 2 weeks after that to tell his story. The police investigators are skeptical about this part of his reasoning (the arrest on 1/27 is not addressed, at least in the snippets from the podcast). They don't understand why he would be afraid to come forward because he had no major offenses. If I'm right about his identity, he had his first arrest as an adult right smack in the middle of the 4 weeks between when Hae was murdered and he told his side of the story to police. Something to ponder...

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The reason Jay gives the police for not coming forward earlier is that he had prior run-ins with the law (perhaps as a juvenile which may be expunged now) but if this Jay is the one I've found he was arrested 2 weeks after the murder (as a 19-year-old) and then came to the police 2 weeks after that to tell his story. The police investigators are skeptical about this part of his reasoning (the arrest on 1/27 is not addressed, at least in the snippets from the podcast). They don't understand why he would be afraid to come forward because he had no major offenses. If I'm right about his identity, he had his first arrest as an adult right smack in the middle of the 4 weeks between when Hae was murdered and he told his side of the story to police. Something to ponder...

Well, re: the police investigators, that's the way they go about their business, you know? They were just as skeptical of the guy who found the body...

But I don't think Jay went to the police voluntarily, though, did he?

The way I see it, he was already planning and assisting in the commission and the cover-up of the murder before it even happened, and so I can understand why he wouldn't come forward.

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Jay claimed he didn't take Adnan seriously about his threats to kill Hae until the day of the murder and denied any part in planning or committing the murder. Granted, he knew he was an accessory but I think the police had legitimate reasons to be skeptical. First, he had several opportunities the day of the murder to contact authorities and didn't. Second, Adnan and every mutual friend said that Jay and Adnan were not close friends which gets at the question of why he was so willing to go along with the cover-up. None of these are indictments but they do add up to a puzzling set of circumstances that Jay explained away by saying he would have been less credible than Adnan and therefore was fearful of coming forward.

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