Skin Walkers

[ChrisStrickler]

I have a question for the people who have been here longer than I have (seeing as how I just registered, that wouldnt take much).

I have a very close personal friend who has lived within a mile of an Navajo Indian Reservation in Utah, and has related the following story to me.

His family had been going to visit relatives in another city, and to get there, they drive through a stretch of Indian Reserve Territory. It was in the early evening, and his mom was riding in the passenger seat asleep, as were most of the rest of his family (he actually thought they all were asleep) while he drove. Out of the corner of his eye, he caught motion coming from the driver side shoulder of the road, and what he saw startled him to say the least. It was about 5'11 to 6'2, naked, and hairless. It was keeping pace with him, (approx. 45 miles per hour) and seemed to exude a sense of hatred towards them. He floored the van (97 Chevy Astro-van all-wheel drive extended) and quickly went to about a hundred miles an hour. The skinwalker kept up with him until about 60, and then simply stopped running.

He didnt mention this to his family seeing as how they might think he was crazy, until his younger sister (7-ish) mentioned the same thing to him and his mom. She described it accurate to his memory, and even described how he (her brother) had sped up to get away from it. Their mother told her it was just a dream, and not to worry. My friend knows it wasnt a dream, and knows he isnt crazy.

According to what I can find, a skin-walker is essentially nothing more than a "witch doctor/medicine man" gone evil, and as such are attributed all sorts of mystical powers and abilities. However, they need the skin of an animal to get their abilities. He heard stories from some of the Navajo's at high school of "skinwalkers" that were smooth skinned, hairless and exist simply to cause pain. I was wondering if anyone has anymore stories (doesnt matter how far removed from the source they are) about these "smooth" skin-walkers.

thanks from a "newbie"

Chris

[Mystify]

Welcome to the forum Chris!

I found a site with some info on your skin walkers.

Very intresting stuff.

http://www.dangermedia.com/horrors/skinwalker.html

[Mystify]

It's actually a story...but still intrestin.

I'll try to find factful stuff if I can.

[ChrisStrickler]

In all actuality, I am interested in as many stories as exist (doesnt matter what the relation, or how far from the source it is).

thanks,

Chris

[ChrisStrickler]

Nothing like responding to your own thread eh?

More information on the "smooth" skin-walkers.

Description (as far as I have collected)

They are usually between 5'5 and 6'5 from all the varied accounts, and stories I have read. They are all "male" in appearance, even though they have no visible genitilia. They are resilient (to the point of being hit by cars, and being seen getting up and running). Very human appearance, and some stories report them to be a form of magical eunech created by the real skin-walker to be a protector. They are sometimes seen along with a "familiar" style animal. And, are rarely seen in daylight. Every sighting of them has the people in it fleeing for their lives from these, and some have the smooth skin walker following them throughout the tribe.

Anymore information, or sightings, or even fiction written about them would be appreciated.

Chris

[Homer]

Here is a couple more sites I found: http://www.unsolvedmysteries.com/usm148890.html   and    http://web.nmsu.edu/~tomlynch/swlit.skinwalkers.html

Homer[glow=color,strength,width]

[Jamie]

Homer,

Are you a member at unsolvedmysteries.com????  If you are what is your author id #???  I love that site.

Jamie

[Homer]

Jamie,

I'm not a member there, although I do frequent there quite often. I agree with you, it's a great site.

Homer[glow=color,strength,width]

[ChrisStrickler]

I was sitting here at work, and realized that the skinwalkers have a very similar resemblance to the movies/series of "The Crow", although in the case of the skinwalker, they aren't out to right some wrong, they are just evil. Anyways.

Chris

[Bex]

Has anyone see more skinwalkers???

[Dark Raven]

Who or what from "The Crow" does the skinwalker look like? I was just wondering because there wasn't much detail as to which character looked like it. Also, I've only seen the first movie (starring Brandon Lee, may he rest in peace), but the only one I can think of that you could be talking about is his character when he's wearing that skin-tight suit. Let me know if you're talking about a different character or movie altogether.

[ryan1_84534]

my names Ryan and im a Full Blooded Utah Navajo

i know exactly what your talking about......the same thig happened to my mother when she was driving back to utah late one night from a Educational Conference in window rock, arizona. execpt with her it was an actually coyote.....running besides her car at about 70 miles per hour give or take. she was alone and so she couldnt exactly panic rather then just speed up an continue driving.

IN ANY CASE a skin was is ..yes... a Witch...well a person whos very very educated in "the evil way". there are many ceremonies that are involved in a person who turns into a Skinwalker. the ones everyone heard about are usually when a WITCH jumps over a fire and when he/she lands on the other side....he'she is a skinwalker. however in his or her time as being a skinwalk, she cannot die from any type of gun shots....or injuries UNITL they transform back into their human form.

there are many types of skinwalkers ranging from your Basic "werewolf" type creature to just a Man-Form having the same "supernatural" abilities. these types are usually just men painted completely WHITE from head to toe with black spots around their bodies. I've heard stories of them being in HORSE form, DOG form, some stories i heard from my own family member is that htie can actually be in a black "FOG" like form with only RED EYES. now i know your thinking...their just seeing ghosts....NO, thats an entirely different thing.

there are many things about Our culture in which a truely Traditional Navajo like myself knows. however i am your "liberal" type navajo in which i am NOT christian, i do unmderstand whats right and wrong. im actually majoring in political science and im currently servicing my term in the US Marine Corps at the moment. if that tells u what kind of common sense i have about these stories, then i IMPLORE YOU TO QUESTION ME[attachmentid=20589]

Edited November 15, 2005 by ryan1_84534

[__Kratos__]

I read a book a while ago, that described skin walkers as native shamans.

Wikipedia:

Skin-walker is a witch or someone who practices a certain type of witch craft, that turn them into a certain creture (mainly a canine of some type).

Such witchcraft can be found in numerous cultures all over the world, closely related to beliefs in witchcraft, werewolves and other "were" creatures. The Mohawk Indian word "limikkin" is sometimes used to desribe all skin-walkers.

Possibly the best documented skin-walker beliefs are those of the Navajo yenaldooshi, also sometimes referred to as a Navajo witch by outsiders. The yenaldooshi are evil human beings who have gained supernatural power by breaking a cultural taboo. Specifically, a person is said to gain the power of a yenaldooshi by murdering a close relative. The skin-walker will travel through the community by night, spreading misery and desecrating holy things. He or she is usually described as naked, except for a coyote skin. The yenaldooshi is also said to have the power to assume the form of a coyote or other animal.

The main power of the yenaldooshi comes from its use of corpse powder which is made from human cadavers. Touching the powder will curse a person with sickness or death. This is an inversion of the use of pollen among the Navajos, which is sprinkled to produce blessings. Another form of this is a bone pellet which the yenaldooshi will shoot into a victim's body.

In ancient Hopi culture ther was a ritual ceremony once performed called the Ya Ya Ceremony. In this ceremony members would change themselves into various animals using hide from the chosen animal, and the members use certain animal attributes like sight, strength,etc. The ceremony was banned after members developed a disease of the eyes.

In Norse folklore, a skin-walker is a person who can travel in the shape of an animal and learn secrets, or take on certain characteristics of an animal. The person is then said to be wearing that animal's hide. The most well-known example of the latter is the warrior who takes on the strength and stamina of a bear, called "bear shirt" or berserker. The use of an animal shape for other purposes was considered unholy, and people accused of having such abilities were frequently cast out or summarily executed. Females so charged got off more lightly, until the witch trials began in the Middle Ages and Renaissance.

Source

[Piney]

I have heard of them being rabbit form, coyote form, wolf, dog, and owl. I think the Na Dine' ( Navajo) word for them is "Chindi". They are all evil.

Lapi'che Ni'tis

[teo_tesoro]

Hi all, I'm new in this site, but i find it very very interesting!

I just wanted to say that I read something similar at paranormal.about.com...check it out...

Teo.

[battleangel]

No, skinwalkers aren't chindi. They are called yenaldlooshi (with punctuations omitted). It basically means that which skulks around on all fours. I have seen one for myself. Not a pleasant experience. It was very dark out, no moon, and the wind was a little gusty. I mistook it for a cat or a rabbit. Debated on what it was, actually, for several minutes before deciding that it must be a cat. I actually got up and followed it for a bit before getting a very bad feeling because its movements were funky, lol (couldn't think of a better word--imagine like somebody trying to make a freshly dead cat look like it was walking around). When I observed/felt that, I ran back to the porch and watched it from there. Once it was up the road a little and just outside of a streetlight, it rolled around in the dirt and came up the size and appearance of a very large dog with a hump towards its rear. It walked on all fours to just under the streetlight and crouched down, staring back and me. At this point, I was yanked back inside by my husband, who had realized that something was wrong on the porch and spotted what I was watching. His family has had a very long and drawn out history with skinwalkers. He has seen them so many times and sometimes too well. He has nightmares about them.

What he has seen is a person in various states of undress. He's seen naked ones and partially clothed (wearing skins on their legs). They all have worn the white and black make up though not all go on all fours. A skinwalker can be just a witch or they can be the "shapeshifter" type that emulates animals. He's of the opinion that the ones that run around on two legs and are naked are "lesser" skinwalkers just by observation. There's a story in the family of one coming to a ceremony in a darkened hogan, crouching and making animal noises between sentences in Navajo. This one didn't want be a skinwalker but had no choice. He would be killed if he tried to leave. All skinwalkers do evil but I don't know, because of this story, if they all want to do the evil they do. Big difference, imo.

Stories of them running at great speeds are not uncommon. My husband and some friends were followed by a group of them some time ago. This group of skinwalkers seemed to stay ahead of them and followed them at speeds of anywhere between 35-45 mph. The road was curvy, however, and it's possible that some did not follow and moved further along the road through a more direct route. Even 35 mph is well beyond the limit of what a human being can run on two legs but we're talking about them using four legs. One of the big questions that we have about the human race is why we opted to become bipedal. When the human race went bipedal, we lost our speed. Children raised wild that run on all fours surpass the speeds of an adult running on two legs. If we overlaid that bit of information on an adult skinwalker, they are probably incredibly fast. From what my husband has observed, the way that they run is almost in a bounding manner, as if they are pushing off with all the force of their legs and arms combined. They are also excellent jumpers.

Corpse powder is believed to be made from the bones of corspes. It is generally blown on a victim and, if not tended to immediately, the victim will suffocate and die with a telltale black tongue. It's obviously an aerial poison. There are other things in a skinwalkers' arsenal as well including possibly another powder that puts the victim into a coma-like state. They also use knives.

My husband also says that a true yenaldlooshi will not only move on all fours, nearly perfectly emulating an animal but will also have red glowing eyes, like a cat's. They don't always move around on all fours but will sometimes stand, bipedally. They sway when they are standing like this. The combination of the sway and the white paint almost make them look like ghosts. He has seen in the transition of standing on two legs and running on fours and said that it looked like the skinwalker's knees were hyperextended when it did that. Some family believe that they are in some sort of drug induced trance state and that's why they seem to be resistant to pain and also explains some of the swaying that goes on.

He has alot of personal and close family experiences with skinwalkers. He's been dealing with them since he was just a little boy and that's how it has been in this family for generations. What he has to say about them isn't as exciting as saying that they are werewolves. The way this family puts it, it's very easy to think that you are seeing an animal when it's really dark and what you are seeing is wearing the skin of one and pretending to be one. They don't perceive them as shapeshifters in the sense that they literally transform their bodies into an animal's. They see them as mentally shapeshifting to become an animal spiritually so what they do is all the more convincing. Probably the most dramatic image I have been told of was a story from a close relative. In this story, it was dusk and the sun had already dropped below the horizon. The relative was driving along a dirt road and saw a pack of skinwalkers running on all fours across the field. Must've been quite a sight.

[Moone_lite_eyes]

hi guest you got a question

[Moone_lite_eyes]

plese feel free to ask

[XNavyGunner]

Stupid question, but what is the difference between a skinwalker and a werewolf? Not trying to be a smartass but just want to know.

[SilverCougar]

Stupid question, but what is the difference between a skinwalker and a werewolf? Not trying to be a smartass but just want to know.

...

Skinwalker, as has been said in this thread, people who practice "evil" ways to take on aspects of animals.. if not a form it'self. But it's a spell casting type..

Lyacn/Therianthopes is classified as a desiese or mental phenomina where someone has a deep connection with an animal type that they can, in times of stron emotions, take on mental charicteristics of said animal. Centuries ago.. people would say that it's a desiese that turns people into said animal connection.. most common is the wolf.

[XNavyGunner]

...

Skinwalker, as has been said in this thread, people who practice "evil" ways to take on aspects of animals.. if not a form it'self. But it's a spell casting type..

Lyacn/Therianthopes is classified as a desiese or mental phenomina where someone has a deep connection with an animal type that they can, in times of stron emotions, take on mental charicteristics of said animal. Centuries ago.. people would say that it's a desiese that turns people into said animal connection.. most common is the wolf.

Thank you.

[battleangel]

To add to SilverCougar's definition, a skinwalker is also not set into just taking on aspects of a wolf but any animal whose skin it possesses. A skinwalker could be taking on aspects of a mountain lion, a bear or a coyote as well. It all depends on what skin they put on. A skinwalker also still possesses a human aspect of the mind as well and this enables them to place medicine bundles, play flutes, utilize weapons and even converse with their victims. They are both man and animal integrated, whereas, from what I recall from werewolf stories, a werewolf may lose the human aspect of their mind while in "wolf form". Somebody correct me if I'm wrong on that last bit about werewolves.

[SilverCougar]

Those who've seen me rage.. can tell you... I'm more Cougar then human in actions...

It's physicaly impossible to "shapeshift" like werebeast stories of old say. Not only would it hurt like all get out, but it would strain your body and metabolizm to the point you'd die shortly afterwards from shock.

[battleangel]

It's physicaly impossible to "shapeshift" like werebeast stories of old say. Not only would it hurt like all get out, but it would strain your body and metabolizm to the point you'd die shortly afterwards from shock.

Exactly. The body just doesn't work that way.

[SilverCougar]

Any real lycanthrope or therianthope can tell you... it's a spiritual connection. Not a physical transformation. It can even date back to the Vikings with their berzerkers... They thought carying a specialy treated animal skin gave them the power of that animal... and can be thought of on of the many types of wereism.