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Abramelin

Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 3]

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It has been suggested - and ridiculed - before by other people, that the Inca were Oera Linda Book Frisians.

 

I became acquainted with an Inca woman (from Bolivia) about half a year ago - and I like her.

Sometimes it takes me a long time for the quarter to drop: Yes, I am convinced that the Inca are descended from the OLB Inka and his followers.

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Posted (edited)

On 6/5/2016 at 5:26 PM, Ell said:

Yes, I am convinced that the Inca are descended from the OLB Inka and his followers.

Have you thought the possibility of Inka (and Teunis) being another name for Vili and Ve (point 8 here)? I notice that Vili and Ve are characterised most notably as brothers of Odin in Scandinavian sources - and in my Finnish language a brother is 'veli'. Male names like Vili, Viljo, Veli ('brother') and Veikko (also an another word for 'brother') are common Finnish male names, just like William in English speaking nations. I thus wonder if the Vili and Ve mean just 'brother' and were not originally given names - just like Odin's alternative name Herjan is not a true given name, but means a 'lord', 'sir', 'mister', 'master' etc. (German Herr, Finnish herra). This would open up the option that Inka and Teunis would have been the real given names. 

I gave a look at what the Wikipedia told of the Incas: "The term Inka means "ruler" or "lord" in Quechua and was used to refer to the ruling class or the ruling family in the empire". That would fit well with the lord-Odin, for example what the 18th century Finnish lore collector Kristfrid Ganander had this to say on the topic: 

Quote

"Saari [Finn. 'island']

old king's place in Finland, whose remnants are still to be seen [...] Still in use are names Saar, Ser and Sir are Scythian and fit together with Latin Caesar or Aesar, by which old Etruscans ment the master of all and the creator. [...] Saracen and Saarmat, Saarmader mean a big and prestigious man, like Hårsaar, Hårsir and the Saar or Czaar of the Russians. In England and France one says Sir to the king. In Turkey Visir means the highest minister, in the same way as our old Goths in lore and stone-carved chronicles used the name Visir of those, who were chieftains while in war or in other purpose. Name Saar exists in Finnish placenames. Saar, Odin saari [Odensö today] [...] The name of the Finland itself is Suomensaari ['island of Finland'] (Mythologia Fennica, 1789).

I notice also few other similarities:

Quote

Ayar Manco carried a magic staff made of the finest gold. Where this staff landed, the people would all live there. (Wikipedia on Incas.)

When they approached the island, Ingólfur cast his high seat pillars overboard and swore that he would settle where they drifted to shore. He then sent his slaves Vífill and Karli to search for the pillars. (Wikipedia on settlement of Iceland)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -  

In this legend, Manco Cápac (Ayar Manco) was the son of Viracocha [...] Manco Cápac himself was worshipped as a fire and a Sun God. (Wikipedia on Manco Cápac.)

Oden has always been and will always be. Uuden is the sun and sun controls the life. (Ior Bock 1996, page 22. Note that Oden and Uuden are the Swedish and Finnish spellings of Odin.)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -  

Viracocha is the great creator deity [1] in the pre-Inca and Inca mythology in the Andes region of South America. [...]  Viracocha was worshipped as god of the sun and of storms [2]. He was represented as wearing the sun for a crown, with thunderbolts in his hands, and tears descending from his eyes as rain. He made mankind by breathing into stones [3], but his first creation were brainless giants that displeased him. So he destroyed it with a flood [4] and made a new, better one from smaller stones. Viracocha eventually disappeared [5] across the Pacific Ocean (by walking on the water [5.1]), and never returned. He wandered the earth [6] disguised as a beggar [7], teaching his new creations the basics of civilization [8], as well as working numerous miracles [9].  (Wikipedia on Viracocha)

# 1 The medieval Icelandic scholar Snorri Sturluson tells us that Odin, Vili, and Ve were the first true Aesir gods to exist. Their parents were the proto-god Borr and the giantess Bestla. The three brothers slew the giant Ymir, the first being who had come into existence, and fashioned the cosmos from his corpse. While Snorri is not generally a particularly reliable source, there are good reasons to accept this particular information as an authentic account of pre-Christian Norse views, given how well it accords with other evidence that we’ll consider below. (Norse mythology)

# 2 "My mother was interested to find out what had happened at Viapori, because it was known to her as Odensö and Odensborg. [...] Land of the Uuden was also Örikets Nyland or Saarenmaa, which central island was Odensö [...] At the middle of the Land of Uuden was a mountain known as Listening Mountain. [...] At the Listening Mountain, was a tower where sat Ukko Väinämöinen." (Ior Bock 1996, pages 12, 22 and 23)

Ukko, or Äijä or Äijö (Finnish: male grandparent, grandfather, old man), parallel in Estonian mythology to Uku, is the god of the sky, weather, harvest and thunder in Finnish mythology. The Finnish word for thunder, Ukkonen, is the diminutive form of the name Ukko. (Wikipedia on Ukko)

Väinämöinen was described as an old and wise man, and he possessed a potent, magical voice. [...] In neighbouring Scandinavia, Odin shares many attributes with Väinämöinen, such as connections to magic and poetry. (Wikipedia on Väinämöinen, note that Väinämöinen's full name and title is 'Ukko Väinämöinen') 

Thorpe records (1851) that in Sweden, "when a noise, like that of carriages and horses, is heard by night, the people say: 'Odin is passing by'". (Wikipedia on Odin)

Hveðrungr 'Roarer' or 'Weather-maker', Þundr 'Thunderer', Viðrir 'Stormer', Ýjungr 'Stormy' or 'of the primal streams' (Wikipedia's list of names of Odin)

# 3 According to chapter 9 of the Prose Edda book Gylfaginning, the three brothers Vili, Vé, and Odin, are the creators of the first man and woman. The brothers were once walking along a beach and found two trees there. They took the wood and from it created the first human beings; Ask and Embla. One of the three gave them the breath of life, the second gave them movement and intelligence, and the third gave them shape, speech, hearing and sight. Further, the three gods gave them clothing and names. Ask and Embla go on to become the progenitors of all humanity and were given a home within the walls of Midgard. (Wikipedia on Ask and Embla)

# 4 High relates that Odin, Vili, and Vé killed Ymir, and his body produced so much blood from his wounds that within it drowned all the jötnar but two, Bergelmir, who, on a lúðr with his (unnamed) wife, survived and repopulated the jötnar. (Wikipedia on Ymir)

# 5  Wodin [...] disappeared. #5.1 The Magy said that he was taken up by their gods and still reigned over us [...] When Wodin had disappeared some time, disputes arose. (Oera Linda book)

# 6 Odin was a great and very far-travelled warrior [...] Often he went away so far that he passed many seasons on his journeys. [...] once when Odin had gone to a great distance, and had been so long away that the people Of Asia doubted if he would ever return home (Heimskringla)

# 7 Odin frequently seeks knowledge in some manner and in disguise (Wikipedia on Odin)

# 8 The poem Hávamál (Old Norse 'Sayings of the High One') consists entirely of wisdom verse attributed to Odin. This advice ranges from the practical [...], to the mythological [...], and to the mystical (Wikipedia on Odin)

# 9 Odin is also particularly associated with charms and other forms of magic, such as in Old English and Old Norse texts. (Wikipedia on Odin)

To summarise, we have:

- common rain-sun-thunder god element (common theme)

- primaeval pre-human race of giants (common theme)

- destruction by flood (common theme)

- humans made of natural materials and breath of life into humans (common theme)

- disguised god (common theme)

- disappearing god (unusual, more common theme has the god to die or go back to heaven)

- place of residence established where the stick or pillar is cast (unusual, more common theme has a animal insted of stick) 

- great teacher who does occasional miracle (common theme).

I don't see much meaning between one or two elements between Norse and Incan legends, but I would consider the specific combination of those elements more telling or a better marker. Not all mythologies give the same combination of those elements above and not all tie them specifically to one legendary person as in Odin or Viracocha. In the Old Testament, for example, the creation of Adam, giants and flood are not closely tied to each other time-wise or person-wise, but are separate incidents in the narrative.

Please have a look at here and compare the figurine art style seen there to images here, here and here.

Edited by FromFinland
fixed typos, added summary
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Posted (edited)

As our good friend Demiurg inquired about the 2006 Oera Linda book paper study some time ago, I have given that issue some thought. All of this was made several weeks ago, but were delayed by exams, followed by the start of holiday season with thus less time spent anywhere near books or computers. Anyway, the original study was by: Grijn, Kardinaal & Porck, The Oera Linda Boek A literary forgery and its paper, IPH Congress Book 16/2006, pages 177–185. First of all we note that IPH stands for International Association of Paper Historians, meaning that the analysis was published in a publication of paper experts.

I start by numbering the various claims made in the 2006 study, including the basis of that claim (if given) and my commentary. Appendixed are given at the end, together with my summary. I suggest for you to open the original 2006 study from above link into another internet browser window, so that you can check the relevant part for yourself (page numbers refer to the original 2006 study).

 

************ CLAIMS ************

 

Claim #1: ”It soon became clear that the Oera Linda Boek was not an authentic history or even an ancient text” (177)

Basis: none given.

Comment: Untrue. It's was researched as genuine still in the 1940s Germany. In addition, Dutch and foreign amateur researchers do study the text and keep making new findings about it still in the 2010s (see below).

 

Claim #2: ”However, the support -machine made paper-, the language -a mixture of old Frisian and modern Dutch- as well as the fabulous content all spoke too clearly for a modern origin.” (177)

Basis: None given, nor is ”fabulous” explained in context despite the bold statement (see above).

Comment: Partially untrue. For example, in 2015–16 it was shown here that the book's contents are anything but ”fabulous” and parallel much other Nordic sources, like Ynglingasaga's story of Odin.

 

Claim #3: ”we concluded  that the paper was made on a Foudrinier machine equipped with an égoutteur [ a light dandy roller]” (180)

Basis: ”a laid pattern was observed on the light table and the impression of a wire mesh under raking light. On the basis of this combination we concluded  that the paper was made on a Foudrinier machine equipped with an égoutteur as we expect that the cylinder mould machine would leave either a laid or a wove impression.” (180)

Comment: Unwarranted conclusion, as per the evidence given. A laid pattern and wise mesh marks are consistent also with the paper making methods before the mechanical paper making era. See appendix 1. Moreover the patterns visually match those of known Medieval papers, as researcher Jan Ott has shown by comparison.

 

Claim #4: ”use of machine made paper” (180), ”Rosin (tub) sizing is excusively adopted in machine made paper.” (180), ”showed starch” (180)

Basis: ”the use of machine made paper in the Oera Linda Boek can be deduced independently from the presence of rosin size as proved by the Raspail test on two scraps of paper. Rosin (tub) sizing is exclusively adpoted in machine made paper. The iodine test in the same scraps showed starch, a usual addition to rosin size.” (180)

Comment: Unwarranted conclusion. Arabian paper with starch tub sizing was imported into Europe already in 11th century.  Also local Italian paper makers already used rosin in Medieval tub sizing.
Moreover, ancient Roman cuisine included mixing rosin into into wine. If it was included as mixed food ingedrient, it's not a stretch to see possible other uses for it as well in the old Europe. Please see appendix 2.

 

Claim #5: ”paper consisted of long linen fibres” (180), ”absence of mechanical wood pulp” (180), ”chemical wood mixed with cotton” (180)

Basis: ”The paper fibres of two of the OLB scraps were examined microscopically, using Herzberg staining. Microscopic analysis of one scrap ('anonymous') showed that the paper consisted of long linen fibres […] A floroglucine test proved the absence of mechanical wood pulp. The lenght of the fibre (3 – 6 mm) indicated that the beating had not been not very strong. The second scrap used for fible analysis, the 'letter' scrap, showed a completely different fibre composition: chemical wood mixed with cotton” (180)

Comment: Absence of mechanical wood pulp is consistent with old paper manufacturing methods, unlike the chemical wood noted here. However the presence of linen and – presumably Indian – cotton is known from 13th century Europe. Morever one source claims the cloth rag fibres included wood and were made into ”a fine pulp”, hence one could wonder if the ”chemical wood”of the study could be such, especially as neither fibre lengths nor comparison photos are given. Please see appendix 3.

 

Claim #6: ”Absence of a significant (measurable) amount of aluminium […] alum would be absent […] most propable alternative is gypsym” (180).

Basis: -

Comment: Gypsum was used in medieval Europe for manuscript illustrations, hence the possibility of its use for paper making in Chinese manner.

 

Claim #7: ”The makers of the Oera Linda Boek made an effort to give the paper an old look.” (181)

Basis: ”A yellow colouring material was used. Originally the OLB paper was white. This becomed evident when a tiny bit of fibre is cratched from the surface.” (181)

Comment: Unwarranted conclusion. That a paper would be coloured artificially yellow is consistent with a known ancient practise of colouring parchment for decorative purposes. Please see appendix 4.

 

Claim #8: ”The writing ink is a iron-gall ink” (181)

Basis: ”as shown by the occurence of ink corrosion” (181)

Comment: Which would be consistent with the possible pre-1800s origin of the OLB document, though not conclusively as the ink type was  still in use in the 1900s.

 

Claim #9: ”ink contains arsenic and no sulphur” (181)

Basis: ”according to XRF-tests” (181)

Comment: This is interesting considering that sulphur was an ancient component in both paints and inks. Arsenic has however been used as a mordant to make colour stick to the material. Please see appendix 5. 

 

Claim #10: ”the background colour contains sulphur and no arsenic.” (181)

Basis: ”according to XRF-tests” (181)

Comment: That the yellowing material has sulphur and yet not remnants of arsenic is insteresting, for the traditional pigment for yellow was arsenic sulfide mineral orpiment. 

 

Claim #11: ”the colour treatment was propably performed before the writing process” (181–182)

Basis: ”Presence of the colour underneath a letter which had flaked off the paper shows” (181)

Comment: The paper may have been pre-coloured long before it was written on.

 

Claim #12: ”Oera Linda boek is made on laid machine paper. It's earliest possible production date is in the 1830s” (183)

Basis: ”because the égoutteur was not introduced before that time.” (183)

Comment: Unwarranted conclusion. Please see claim #3 above.

 

Claim #13: ”The absence of cotton mixed with the linen fibre is an indication that the paper was produced in the first half of the nineteenth century” (183)

Basis: ”as linen fabric generally contained cotton threads after the 1850s” (183)

Comment: Unwarranted conclusion. Conlusion given requires a 1800s time-frame, which is not certain.

 

Claim #14: ”This paper we identify as soda paper produced in England in 1866 or later” (183)

Basis: ”The soda method was developed in the United States from the middle of the eighteen fifties but a date for this part of the paper in the Oera Linda Boek after 1866, when the process was introduced in Enlfand, is much more likely.” (183)

Comment: Unwarranted conclusion. Conlusion given requires a 1800s time-frame, which is not certain. Use of soda method is not confirmed but merely suspected.  

 

Claim #15: ”the chemical wood found in the blank paper must be soda pulp” (184)

Basis: ”the time limit [until 1874] indicate that the chemical wood found in the blank paper must be soda pulp. In general, paper made from soda pulp can be considered as uncommon; in 1874 it was still produced in only a few mills.” (184)

Comment: Uncertain hypothesis. Note the wording: ”must be”, which makes sense if one has already established the possible time-frame in one's mind.

 

Claim #16: ”some normally used substances in middle and later nineteenth century paper making seem to be absent in both papers: alum15 and china clay as filler.16” (184)

Basis: ”According to our prosivisional interpretation of the XRF tests, the spectrum of the second bacth of OLB paper is very similar to the spectrum of one of the blank sheets. The spectra indicate that” (184)

Comment: Hence suggesting a pre-1800s origin of the paper, or alternatively some other  unorthodox source of special paper.

 

Claim #17: ”Paper analysis thus revearls the involvement of Over de Linden in the production of the Oera Linda Boek.” (184) 

Basis: ”Even though figre analysis and XRF tests for the blank paper may not be added together into a single paper profile (since it is not certain that both were observed on the same paper scrap), it is obvious from the similarity of the two groups of paper and the atypical composition (soda pulp, no alum) that Over de Linden and the maker(s) of the Oera Linda Boek delved into the same stock of paper.” (184)

Comment: Unwarranted conclusion. See point #15 above on the alleged but unconfirmed presence of the soda pulp. The claim above is a huge outstrech compared to the basis of Over de Linden having a stock of paper available, some with writing in it and some without.

 

Claim #18: ”Absence of alum would be very unexpected. Both for gelatin and rosin (tub) sizing alum was routinely used.” (184)

Basis: -

Comment: Hence suggesting a pre-1500s origin of the paper, or alternatively some other  unorthodox source for special paper. Please see appendix 2. 

 

************ APPENDIXES ************

Appendix 1: laid patterns and wire meshes

Before the mechanization of papermaking, the laid pattern was produced by the wire sieve in the rectangular mold used to produce single sheets of paper. A worker would dip the mold into a vat containing diluted linen pulp, then lift it out, tilt it to spread the pulp evenly over the sieve, and, as the water drained out between the wires, shake the mold to lock the fibers together. In the process, the pattern of the wires in the sieve was imparted to the sheet of paper. (Source)

 

Appendix 2: rosin

A Brief Review of the History of Sizing and Resizing Practices
By Karen Garlick, Head of Preservation at National Museum of American History (source). The American Institute for Conservation. The Book and Paper Group Annual Volume Five 1986.

Early oriental paper was unsized. Soft, pliant, and absorbent, it was well suited to the calligraphic brushwork of scribes. In the 8th century, in a process very similar to surface coating, the Chinese began to apply gypsum and later an adhesive like substance made from lichen to the surface of their paper. Later in the century they made a size from flour starch which was added to the paper pulp in the tub or to the finished sheet after forming.
In the mid 8th century papermaking was introduced to the Arab world where it gained swift popularity. Arabic papers were sized with starch and afterwards glazed to produce a highly burnished surface that physically resembled the more traditional and familiar parchment. It was also suitable for the inks, pens, and calligraphic styles that had gradually developed for use on the parchment surface. Quite unlike the finished product, the surface of an unsized sheet of Arabic paper was very irregular, reflecting the impressions left by the reeds used to construct the paper mould and the effects of drying with little or no pressing.
[…]

From the 11th century on, Arabic papers were exported throughout the Byzantine empire and Christian Europe. Through this trade, paper was introduced into Italy. Credit is generally given to Pietro Miliani for establishing the first paper mill in the town of Fabriano in the mid 13th century when he brought together several small businesses to found the mill, Cartiere Miliani-Fabriano. It was also in the mill at Fabriano, at approximately the same time, that gelatin was first used to size paper. The raw material for gelatin size (and I am going to use the word "gelatin" generically to refer the protein based size derived from animal hides, horns, hooves, and bones) was possibly supplied by the tannery in Fabriano that operated close to the paper mill.
We do not know why gelatin sizing was introduced. Whatever the reason, its use gave the paper a hard, opaque surface that was impervious to contemporary inks and was well suited to quill pens, qualities which may have helped foster the wide use of paper over parchment.
[…]
There are no contemporary accounts that describe the sizing process from this period; the earliest European account of sizing did not appear until 1693 in the French book entitledPapyrus sive Ars Conficiendae Papyri written by the Jesuit priest, J. Imberdis, Claromonti.
Modern historians generally assume that while certain changes in gelatin sizing may have occurred over time, the basic method remained essentially the same. To prepare the size, the papermaker repeatedly boiled the raw animal materials in water in a large cauldron set over a fire. Periodically, the solution was skimmed and filtered through cloths. When the gelatin was ready, it was transferred to a tub to cool and again heated before application so that right consistency throughout the entire paper, the papermaker picked up as many clarify. The gelatin was it would remain at the procedure. To size the sheets as he could hold in one hand or between 2 sticks and immersed them all together into the tub of hot size. (hence the name "tub sizing" given to this procedure.) He used his free hand to fan out the sheets so that the size penetrated each sheet. Following this dipping, the paper was pressed lightly to distribute the size evenly over the surface. The pressing removed excess size which was drained into a container and emptied back into the sizing tub. Apparently, sizing was one of the more difficult jobs for the papermaker, and many sheets were damaged beyond use. For this reason, and probably others as well, the sizing room was known as the "slaughterhouse".
With the ascendancy of papermaking in Italy, in the 14th century, gelatin sizing became widely accepted. But, even during the late 13th and early 14th centuries, other materials were used as well.
For example Italian paper in a late 13th century Spanish Chancellary Register is sized with a thick starch that appears to have been crudely applied with a brush. Italian papermakers are also known to have sized with a resinous substance, made primarily of rosin, to which alum was added.
[…] 
One of the major problems encountered with gelatin size was that it deteriorated quickly, especially when the weather was hot. In a practice that began in the 16th century and was widely used by the mid 17th century, papermakers added potassium aluminum sulphate (alum) to the size to control the growth of mold and bacteria. 

 

Ancient Roman cuisine

Another recipe called for the addition of seawater, pitch and rosin to the wine. A Greek traveler reported that the beverage was apparently an acquired taste. (Source)

Rosin sources

The main source of supply in Europe is the French district of Landes in the departments of Gironde and Landes, where the Maritime Pine P. pinaster is extensively cultivated. In the north of Europe, rosin is obtained from the Scots Pine P. sylvestris, and throughout European countries local supplies are obtained from other species of pine, with Aleppo Pine P. halepensis being particularly important in the Mediterranean region. (Source)

Starch history

Starch grains from the rhizomes of Typha (cattails, bullrushes) as flour have been identified from grinding stones in Europe dating back to 30,000 years ago.[4] Starch grains fromsorghum were found on grind stones in caves in Ngalue, Mozambique dating up to 100,000 years ago.[5]
Pure extracted wheat starch paste was used in Ancient Egypt possibly to glue papyrus.[6] The extraction of starch is first described in the Natural History of Pliny the Elder around AD 77–79.[7] Romans used it also in cosmetic creams, to powder the hair and to thicken sauces. Persians and Indians used it to make dishes similar to gothumai wheat halva. Rice starch as surface treatment of paper has been used in paper production in China, from 700 AD onwards.[8] (Source)

Raspail test

A method of determining the presence of rosin size in paper. One drop of a strong solution of ordinary sugar is applied to the sheet, the excess being blotted after one minute. A drop of concentrated sulfuric acid is then applied, which turns the area treated a bright red color if rosin is present in the paper. (Source)

 

Appendix 3: linen and cotton

Pulp

Later, papermaking using cotton and linen fibers spread to Europe in the 13th century. Medieval historian Lynn White credited the spinning wheel with increasing the supply of rags, which led to cheap paper, which was a factor in the development of printing. (Source)

Early papermaking

It was not until the 8th century that the basic technique of paper -making spread into the Islamic countries and from thence into southern Europe. Early records show that paper-made mainly from linen rags was being manufactured in several European countries by the 13th century.
The earliest paper was called 'cloth parchment', but it often contained wood and straw in addition to cloth. All these raw materials were beaten to a fine pulp and mixed with water. Sheets of paper were then pressed out, dried and hardened. The development of newspaper in the 17th century prompted the invention of primitive machines for the production of individual sheets of paper. In the 19th century demand for paper was unsatiable - for packaging food, for recording business transactions, and, as more and more people became literate, for printing books and newspapers. (Source)
 

Appendix 4: yellow colouring

Papyrys

Contrarily to what was thought, once written, the papyrus could be rolled up on itself[36].  Only in a few cases, in Greek and Roman times, when the roll was of medium-high height, in order to preserve the delicate papyri fibers, avoiding their continuous contact, it was rolled up around a rod (umbilicus, in Latin; omphalòs, in Greek) of wood, bone or even, in luxurious samples, gold.  In Greek and Roman times, the roll could be preserved preciously, by putting around it a cover of parchment red- or yellow-colored with animal or vegetal substances. (Source)

 

Appendix 5: arsenic mordant

MORDANT comes from the French, meaning "to bite." Mordants are mineral salts that bind dyes into fiber, assure light- and wash-fastness, prevent color bleeding, brightens or changes some dye colors. Over the centuries many interesting substances were used as mordants to ensure color fastness, including arsenic and other deadly chemicals. (Source)

 

************ SUMMARY ************

The most noteworthy chemical reason to suspect a modern origin for the OLB paper – and hence possibly also for the story written on it – is the presence of the chemical wood (#5 above) for some of the papers. It's sad however that some of the critical data of interest is not contained herein: 1) fibre lenght of the chemical wood pulp and 2) exact reasons on which basis the thick and dense fibres were classified as wood fibres. The situation is made worse by the fact that there does not seem to be any easily accessed public reference source from which one could check the fibre lenghts, fibre patterns and chemical ingedrients of known 13th century European papers.

Many of the conclusions in the IPH were streched, as we can see by comparing them to sources published by a noteworthy paper expert already back in the 1980s (see #4 above). maybe this was due to surmise that the text must be a modern creation, hence it was not really compared to 13th century paper techology. In university world, a research must often be considered againt a specific hypothesis or theory: Goffe Jensma's was used in this case. Moreover, it suggests to this author that the text was not peer-reviewed by the actual paper historians before publication.

What could be done in the future? First one should hire a proper chemist with understanding of paper, parchments, writing methods, inks, pigments, history of writing etc, as the 2006 study seems a good start but is missing details in some parts and this commentary is not done by a real paper professional either. Second, one should acquire copies of known 13th century medieval papers with similar water lines to OLB, and check their fibers by the Herzberg staining method, so as to acquire a comparison baseline to which compare the OLB. There doesn't seem to have been such a baseline source used for the 2006 OLB study, which is kind of surprising in itself for many medieval Arabic manuscripts are stored in Leiden, Netherlands. This immediately begs the obvious question: why were they not used as baseline for comparison? Thirdly, one should research the pigments used for the ink and the background colour. For example, is the background colour orpiment or some other colour? Ideally the ink and pigment research would be done in the same manner as the paper fibre research would be done, by comparing to known 13th century sources, which – again – was not done for some reason in the 2006 study.

Edited by FromFinland
fixed outlook
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Posted (edited)

Thanks FF , two excellent posts , thanks for your time in collecting the information and posting them , i shall take my time reading them , do you see any possible connection with V-ili and V-e to Lil and Ea (enlil and Ea(Enki ), which i suppose would make Oden fall in line with Anu.

Saar ,Sar , Sir being the possible name of the creator/Lord may resonate with Aesar  being Ae-Sar or Lord Ae , which could then be similar to En (Lord ) Ki (earth ) and En(lord ) EA

Asher , Ashur is supposed to connect to Assur , Assyr ,Assyria , and in the old Welsh MS , the very first migrants to Britain are said to have been Assyrian/Phoenician , supposedly where we got the name for the county of Surrey , his name is said to have been Albyne , and therefore possibly the country being called Albion at different times.....all speculative at present not accepted mainstream .

As you probably know Saaramaar is the place where a comet came to earth at some time in history , and where it was thought that the Gods fell to Earth , this was discussed some time ago in this thread , and you may have already read what we talked about..

regards Passing Time.

Edited by Passing Time

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Thank you, Passing Time. I do not see connections nor am I familiar with Middle-Eastern mythologies. Like Vili and Ve have a direct connection to Inka and Teunis by the way of the Odin-Wodin, do you see any similar connection to the OLB in the Mesopotamian mythos? I found two earlier posts on the subject, one of which was yours here.

As for the crater of the Estonian Saarenmaa, it's apparently also known from our Finnish poems like this one which starts with the Ukko Väinämöinen of the air striking a fire at the 'nine heavens' and 'at top of the six celestial spheres'. With his western clone Odin known for "governing the skies and the crops they fertilise" (source), these can be considered as an addendum to my message #1152, highlighting the similarities between the Teunis-Wodin and Ayar Manco-Viracocha. (Of whose possible transcontinental relationship I'm not personally sure of.)

 

 

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On 6-6-2016 at 5:25 PM, FromFinland said:

Have you thought the possibility of Inka (and Teunis) being another name for Vili and Ve (point 8 here)? I notice that Vili and Ve are characterised most notably as brothers of Odin in Scandinavian sources - and in my Finnish language a brother is 'veli'. Male names like Vili, Viljo, Veli ('brother') and Veikko (also an another word for 'brother') are common Finnish male names, just like William in English speaking nations. I thus wonder if the Vili and Ve mean just 'brother' and were not originally given names - just like Odin's alternative name Herjan is not a true given name, but means a 'lord', 'sir', 'mister', 'master' etc. (German Herr, Finnish herra). This would open up the option that Inka and Teunis would have been the real given names. 

I gave a look at what the Wikipedia told of the Incas: "The term Inka means "ruler" or "lord" in Quechua and was used to refer to the ruling class or the ruling family in the empire".

Vili and Ve were gods; in my opinion they were respectively a psychopath and a narcist; both of the divine species. I do not think that Teunis and Inka were gods, though like the other 'chosen' people, one of those peoples being the OLB Frisians, they were provided with divine, transplanted genetic material. The remark that Teunis had something to do with Neptune in my - as yet unproven - opinion was added bij Eelco Verwijs in his forgery of the original document to make people distrust the imitation text as being genuine.

 

Your brother remarks are interesting, and I agree with your hypothesis. I had long ago already also concluded that such names and words as William refered back to Vili or the meaning of his name; and that at least one other word / name is related to the name Ve.

 

I suspect that Inka and his followers joined a group of 'chosen' indians and that he became their leader, and that their progeny named themselves after him and an unknown time later started to (conquer and) civilize the territory of the Inca indians in South America.

 

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On 7-6-2016 at 10:59 AM, Passing Time said:

do you see any possible connection with V-ili and V-e to Lil and Ea (enlil and Ea(Enki ), which i suppose would make Oden fall in line with Anu.

As you probably know Saaramaar is the place where a comet came to earth at some time in history , and where it was thought that the Gods fell to Earth

All the world mythologies are about the same persons. I have identified quite of lot of them, but comparative mythology often is not easy. Even I am sometimes confused. And it does not help that I realized and suspect that sometimes different gods have used the same name, just like individual gods may be known by various different names, even in their own pantheon. I am sometimes rather confused - and in those cases I may be wrong.

 

Saaramaar... There is a name faintly similar to that name in a Roman text, with a similar reputation of disaster.

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1. The Anglo-Saxon charm fragment "erce eorþan módor";
2. the German and Dutch earth-spirit name Harke (and varieties); and
3. the North-German and North-Dutch word for rake: hark;
can all be explained by the phrase "HARK JRTHA" in the Oera Linda book.

Summary of blog post HARK Earth! Anglo-Saxon "Erce eorþan módor" explained

Dahl_Hans_An_Alpine_Landscape_With_A_She

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Excellent post about the paper study, FF.

The fact that after so much work, they never published a final report and that provisional results are so unclear is telling i.m.o.

With the modern techniques it should be really easy to come with clear answers to such a simple question.

Edited by Ott

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On 17-6-2016 at 7:53 AM, Ott said:

1. The Anglo-Saxon charm fragment "erce eorþan módor";
2. the German and Dutch earth-spirit name Harke (and varieties); and
3. the North-German and North-Dutch word for rake: hark;
can all be explained by the phrase "HARK JRTHA" in the Oera Linda book.

Summary of blog post HARK Earth! Anglo-Saxon "Erce eorþan módor" explained

Dahl_Hans_An_Alpine_Landscape_With_A_She

Very fascinating O!

In my view the 'hearken' for 'listen' is evenly coming from the 'hark' (not so much from the 'hear'). 

Hearken can be interpreted and later on certainly used to mean 'listen up folks', but imo the original reason why it was used was to gather first the people, make them come back on their (daily common) steps and pay attention:-)

Get your act together and come here: i have something to say, hark uzelf bijeen en let op! Because the hark is imo the iterative of the reik (her-reiken, again and again).

Be-reiken, is also to touch the audience (be-raken). 

Hearken! Come here quickly! Hurry up, the hurricane is the same as the hearken! Hurricane! Hear it's coming, we must get our act together quickly and look for safety.

Gather and save what you can in the short time left (bijeen harken!).

The Arawak in the Caribbean were speaking a samelike language.  http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/orkaan OLB gives an explanation ;-)

" ...ontleend aan het Taino, een Arawak-taal uit het Caribische gebied."

"derived from an Arawak language in the Caribbean"

 

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Nice VG ... ouracan could also give an etymology to the  gaelic islands off the North of Scotland ,  the Orkney islands or hurricane isles might seem a fitting name for them in their geographical position.

 

Jan might look at the goddess Circe or Cerce being the one who captured Odyseus , who was shipwrecked (raked) in a hurricane (ouracan) , and was caught in another on his release from the island of his captivity , was this island one of the Orkneys ? reminds me of the book " was Troy in Britain ?" .......did you know there was a place in Wales called Troy ....

good to see the Arawak are Awake...........WAK !

 

Edited by Passing Time

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On 11/06/2016 at 1:08 PM, Ell said:

All the world mythologies are about the same persons. I have identified quite of lot of them, but comparative mythology often is not easy. Even I am sometimes confused. And it does not help that I realized and suspect that sometimes different gods have used the same name, just like individual gods may be known by various different names, even in their own pantheon. I am sometimes rather confused - and in those cases I may be wrong.

 

Saaramaar... There is a name faintly similar to that name in a Roman text, with a similar reputation of disaster.

Have you remembered that roman text yet Ell...?

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On 07/06/2016 at 2:52 PM, FromFinland said:

Thank you, Passing Time. I do not see connections nor am I familiar with Middle-Eastern mythologies. Like Vili and Ve have a direct connection to Inka and Teunis by the way of the Odin-Wodin, do you see any similar connection to the OLB in the Mesopotamian mythos? I found two earlier posts on the subject, one of which was yours here.

As for the crater of the Estonian Saarenmaa, it's apparently also known from our Finnish poems like this one which starts with the Ukko Väinämöinen of the air striking a fire at the 'nine heavens' and 'at top of the six celestial spheres'. With his western clone Odin known for "governing the skies and the crops they fertilise" (source), these can be considered as an addendum to my message #1152, highlighting the similarities between the Teunis-Wodin and Ayar Manco-Viracocha. (Of whose possible transcontinental relationship I'm not personally sure of.)

 

 

In the Mesop myths EA (ENKI)( VE ?) is the god who creates man to dig the ditches , and drain the land for habitation, as the gods he had under him refused to carry on doing the work , they said they were being asked to work like slaves , so EA's mankind became their work slaves .eventually they wanted man to do more work , like cook , clean and be their personal servants in their homes  , so EA (note:AE used to be treated as 1 letter....so VAE ? )modified these to be sentient , and think for themselves .so as to be able to do more work unsupervised.

EN-LIL(VILI) was the god that , after the gods had seen that the EA created women were beautifull , they took them to wife , and created demi-gods (Giants , Geants ) LIL saw that these giants were too powerfull and caused the flood which destroyed them , and also EA's creations of man.......However EA had become attatched to his creations , and warned some to build an Ark , to avoid their deaths .hence the story of Noah and the flood . 

Edited by Passing Time

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1 hour ago, Passing Time said:

Have you remembered that roman text yet Ell...?

Yes, but when I looked the Saramaar thing up on Wikipedia, the Latin text proved to be not relevant.

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Sometimes you're looking at at something and then just right out of nowhere comes a new source from "outside the box" that immediately puts the information already at hand into perspective. Ott's take in rake-Harke was one such for me. When one looks here in Finland at the subject of Väinämöinen's mythology, there are parts in it that sound odd by itself, or seem to be orally describing something concrete or visually depictive. The 1996 book on the subject has a whole spread on how the ancient Æesir idols were represented complete with their iconography of equipment, theme colours and animal symbol substitutes. In narrativical style it reads really, really like the visual description of Frisian and Slavic gods here. Regardless of whether one considers it genuine Finland Swedish family lore from the Æsir days of yore or fiction invented in the 1970s, it's always good to be looking for literary clues. I give here the Finnish take on "rake-Harke" and perhaps you will too see how Frisian, Anglo-Saxon, Scandinavian and Finnish mythologies are intertwined.

First of all, in Finnish language 'a rake' is harava. 'To rake' is haravoida, perhaps stemming from the chraa-chraa sound of raking in the fields or raking the dry leaves at the late autumn. But there's more 18th century folklore:

Quote

Maan-Emonen ['mother of earth']

wife of Ukko, gave powers to the weak. Rise from the earth mother of earth, for my might, my strength . .

 

Akka,

old Kaiwo-Keträ [possibly kerijä, 'a coiler'], a old woman diligent to spin and weave; planted pinewood and pines.

 

Akka, ['old woman']

wife of Ukko: a great goddess, comparable to Virgin Mary, and seems to merge in medieval times. In poems it's said of the honeybee

Put your wing onto mead,

another wing onto honey,

into the Akka the old's bushel,

bring then mead from there - -

and after it immediately one calls for Mary. 

Source:  Christfried Ganander, Mythologia Fennica, 1789.

 

The reference to bushel above may be a cultural reference into agrarian Ukko's bushel party, as was practised still in the 1910s:

Quote

And when spring-sowing was done, then Ukko's toast was drank. For that Ukko's bushel, so drank both the maid and the old woman [akka]. Then a lot of shame was done, as was both heard and seen. When Rauni the wife of Ukko splashed [?], Ukko nobly splashed at the bottom, it thus gave the coming of the air and the year.

Source:  Mikael Agricola, foreword to Finnish translation of Book of Psalms, 1551.

If the Dutch and Anglo-Saxonic "rake-Harke" has a thematic connection to hearing, so does the Finnish grand old lady Akka by the way of Finland Swedish lore:

Quote

A – [a:] aser /a:ser/. A is Akka, Gumman, Ukko, Gubben and Æsir, aser. /a/-sound represents the highest-rank man and the highest-rank woman, Ukko and Akka. Their dwelling place was /a:as hel/ [a city at the place of current Helsinki] and /a:s gård/, where lied the mountain Asgårdberget.

[…] Middlemost island was Odensö, the island of Uuden, where was Asgårdsberget or Lyssnarberget, The Listening Mountain.

[…] Akka is maatar ['earth-she']. Lemminkäinen represents the fertilising sun, like his father and mother, Ukko and Akka. These three figures represent the sunwheel or the lifewheel. 

Source:  Ior Bock, Väinämöisen mytologia, 1996, pages 18–19, 33.

While it's easy to see a connection in Frigg-Harke by the way of common spinning wheel, we can see also connection of Frigg-Harke-Akka by the way of Balder-Lemminkäinen, as sung in old Finnish poetry on behaviour of Balder-Lemminkäinen's mother Frigg-Akka after son's death in the hands of the Hödur-'closed eye':

Quote

Then mother the bearer
shafted a bronze rake,
put on the iron spikes;
raked the counter-current
the countercurrent, the downstream:
now found Lemminkäinen,
rose the son of Kaleva
out of the black river of Tuoni [realm of dead],
eternal stream of Manala [realm of dead, lit. 'underground'],
by the nameless finger [ring finger],
by the left toe.

Source:  David Europaeus, old Finnish poem sung by Simana Sissonen, 1845. SKVR.

This dark scene has been painted beautifully by two Finnish painters, Akseli Gallen-Kallela and the Robert Ekman, whose art you can see here and here. (The latter artist is an interesting character, who in addition to painting works with heathen themes worked in Netherlands and allegedly used as models in his paintings the Boxströms of the Väinämöinen's mythology fame (Leo Nygren, Väinämöisen soitto, 2007, pages 8 – 11).)

So, we Finns say to you Dutch and Anglo-Saxons regarding the topic of the Lady Rake and Mother Earth: can confirm! And now the real fun begins! If you look at the Wikipedia page of Frigg, you notice this:

Quote

 Due to significant thematic overlap, scholars have proposed a particular connection to the goddess Freyja.

[...] Scholars have theorized about whether Freyja and the goddess Frigg ultimately stem from a single goddess common among the Germanic peoples; about her connection to the valkyries, female battlefield choosers of the slain; and her relation to other goddesses and figures in Germanic mythology

Source:  Wikipedia on Frigg and Freya. 

If based on examination above we noticed that Finnish Akka is the same as the Harke-Frigg, what does the Finnish sources tell on the issue above? A Finland Swedish source puts it like this:

Quote

F – [ef] frö, Frei, Freia. They are seed, Sampo and Aino. /ef/ is frös ek, the oak tree of the seed. Sampo and Aino were the first human beings. They were born out of a seed called embla.

[...] Ukko, Akka, Lemminkäinen, Swan, Seppo, Maija, Sampo and Aino make up the body of the Väinämöinen's mythology. These eight figures of the mythology have been idols [...] All women were ainos. […] When aino became a mother, her idol was Swan, and when aino became a grandmother, her idol was Akka, or Ella. Name Ella associates with life: elää ['to live'], elävä ['a living'], Ella, Akka. In this way Aino could pass through different stages of life.

Source: Ior Bock, Väinämöisen mytologia, 1996, pages 18, 31.

So, case of Frigg-Freya is explained. A Nordic heathen woman had role models for each stage of life, all the way from youth to elder age.

On a closely related topic, how about then some etymology on the word 'mother':

Maatar – mader – matre – módor – mother – mature – maître – mama – mamma – mummo – ämmä – gumma – emo.

As the first part of the word is quite universal, it may have a visual or geometrical origin as per the bouba/kiki effect. That is, human infants from everywhere on the planet say the same word when interacting with their mothers, because of the way human mind is wired genetically. Such a possibility is hinted at Väinämöinen's mythology take on Adamic languages, being itself a variant of the Scandinavian Ask and Embla story:

Quote

Sampo, or Frei, taught the sounds [a:, be:, se:...] to his sister Aino, or Freia, when he was seven years old. Sampo became the stemfather of all human beings, or allfader or stamfader. [...] Sampo's language was already perfect in the manner it was born in a way it was made. Sampo's language  was based on the human's natural sounds, which are created in every human's brains.

Every mark of the alphabet [A, B, C...] and the sound connected to it has a meaning.

[...] Sampo and Aino, Frei and Freia. Sampo was the first man and Aino the first woman. [...] Sampo and Aino were primaeval beings, whose birth was a nature's miracle, or odenting.

When Sampo was seven years old, his sperm had developed into sounds and during the following 20 years further to ability to understand a language. Sampo taught the language to his sister Aino.

Source: Ior Bock, Väinämöisen mytologia, 1996, pages 17, 24, .

The neurological reason as per the bouba/kiki effect would mean that the mother-words having the m+vocal combination (whether it's ma, , mu or mä) would be due to human mouth imitating the object seen by eyes. What then of the ending (tar, der, tre, ther, ture) that is not as common between languages? In Finnish it's the feminine ending, but we can note also that it means 'three' in many languages. When we deal with three matres, we can truly wonder whether the egg or the chicken came first: is it 'mother-three' (ma-tres), 'mother-she' (ma-tar) or 'earth-she' (maa-tar)?

Harke-Akka-Maatar-Mother-Earth-Frigg.png

Edited by FromFinland
Fixed typos.
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As for Inka and the Inca, I recommend that one google for "Secret Cities of Old South America" wilkins fresolano.

It is a 1998 reprint of a 1952 book. In it one Glaura is quoted, who claims to be of the noble blood of the old Frisians.

 

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Since I have my blog, I have wondered why it attracts so many Russian and Ukrainian visitors. Now I know why. The Russian political scientist and philosopher and Putin-advisor Alexander Dugin (born 1962) wrote a chapter about the OLB in one of his first books "Mysteries of Eurasia" (1996).

Some quotes (from English translation):

Quote

 

The Oera Linda Chronicle contained in basic terms the general features which became (...) the theoretical foundation of German racism. [...]

... the white race of the Oera Linda does not match the historical white race of the Indo-European races, but precedes it by many millennia. [...]

“Freedom,” “equality,” and “fraternity,” are good for “free”, “equal,” and “fraternal” “Frisians”, and imposing despotic systems upon them would be a clear abuse of their racial nature. “Hierarchy,” “order,” and “discipline” are absolutely essential for people of the “Finish” type, while molding a “democratic regime” out of them will never lead to anything else but anarchy, disgrace, and degradation which naturally, logical ends in only greater “tyranny.” [...]

The modern “magicians” governing Western societies, however, to this end utilize more refined and subtle means than the king-priests of ancient Eurasia. [...]

The awakening of racial myth in its time brought monstrous catastrophe to Germany and the world. But the myth itself was not responsible for this, but the pragmatism and lack of criticality of its use. If the sacred is cast for a long time into the periphery of reality, then the surprise is that it will return in a monstrous, distorted form.

The return of a myth should be prepared meticulously and cautiously in advance given the consequences, and even catastrophic potential, of it getting out of hand in being brought to life.

Read much more at source: http://www.eurasianistarchive.com/author/alexander-dugin/the-racial-archetypes-of-eurasia-in-the-oera-linda-chronicle/

1011834476.jpg

Edited by Ott
added quotes
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I wonder who was the first to suggest that the Inca are named after Inka?

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  •  
Quote

 

  • Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary
    • n Nef The nave of a church.
    • ***
Century Dictionary and Cyclopedia
    • n nef The nave of a church.
    • n nef An ornamental vessel used for the decoration of the table, having a form resembling a ship of the middle ages. Nefs were commonly pieces of valuable plate, and were set before the lord or master of the house, their use being to contain some of the table utensils especially appropriated to him, or sometimes to his guests. See cadenas.
    • n nef At the present day, a vessel of any unusual and fantastic shape resembling more or less closely a ship or boat.

 

Venice also added 14 sailing ships of war, or "nefs," 

 

 

Quote

 

nave (n.1) 

"main part of a church," 1670s, from Medieval Latin navem (nominative navis) "nave of a church," from Latin navis "ship" (seenaval), on some fancied resemblance in shape.

 

Does Nef in Nef Tunis mean ship (captain)?

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3 hours ago, Ell said:

I wonder who was the first to suggest that the Inca are named after Inka?

And K = G , so how does this relate to the inga-evones , or does they relate at all to Inka ??

OTT....really interesting article by Dugin.....surprised by his reference (46) the book by L.B.G.Tilak..". The Arctic home in the Vedas " which i have mentioned a few times....can't remember what 1st put me onto that book now .

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5 hours ago, Ell said:
  • Does Nef in Nef Tunis mean ship (captain)?

Great finds Ell & Ott!

Nef: if Vesta can become Fasta, that is v -> f and e -> a, then Nêf can surely turn into Nav(e), which means also the central hub of the wheel, as in ship's wheel. Nêf as a title reminds of the sea-king (sêkening), but could it refer to some other title like captain or skipper (skiprun, skiper in OLB), helmsman under the command of the skipper or the navigator responsible for the navigation? As OLB has at least one another word for the captain, my bet would be on the helmsman or navigator. I note that Sandbach translates in the chapter 32 a skiper as 'the man at the helm' i. e. helmsman, based apparently on the situation at hand on that vivid scene being detailed.

I take a interest of my own on this topic, for the old story How Norway was settled describes Finnish sea-kings (sækonungs) operating at the Scandinavian areas west of modern Finland. To my knowledge OLB is the only Nordic source that gives an actual description of that title in it's 7th chapter. OLB describes the sea-king occupation not as a lifelong mission, but more like a campaign leader type of thing ("He was five times sea-king."). This matches well with other Nordic sources, like chapter 16 of The Saga of Hervör and Heithrek, where Refil son of Swedish king Björn Ironside is called both a warrior-prince and sea-king (herkonungr ok sækonungr).

Dugin: I find it interesting that a man of this caliber has studied the text at length. His commentary shows both detailed knowledge, like the reference to the Ingaevones or Ynglingas, and holistic observations mirroring the Hajnal line. Dugin mentions the students of earlier age pondering on the question of patriarchy and matriarchy, which are also relevant in this age of both neo-masculinity and third wave feminism. The question was largely framed earlier in supremacist binary sense, as if a sexual equality in hierarchical sense couldn't exist. To my eyes that discussion is largely foreign in spirit, for don't we have evidence of equality of parallel power structures for both men and women as in OLB (folkmothers), Väinämöinen's mythology (Æsir goddesses, separate yet equal women's and men's social circles), Germania (likely Finnic Sitones ruled by women), The Saga of Hervör and Heithrek (fortress commanderess Hervör), Saga of Bósi and Herraud (Bjarmian priestess Kolfrosta) and Russian bylinas (female polinitzi warriors)?

Overall Dugin's take is largely Russian, which is a relatively new national identity in European scene and in this way parallels that of the Anglo-Saxons of England. Hence he mentions in passing the preceding ~9000 years of Finnish history of Russia. It is this pre-Rurikid and pre-Slavonic cultural age that ones wishing to study the OLB Finns must look for. I give Dugin extra points for knowing of the Wiligut story and would absolutely love to have him analyse our Finnish Väinämöinen's mythology. (Who knows, perhaps he has sent a report of it to president Putin's office. ^_^ )

Edited by FromFinland
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Johannes Jans Over de Linden (boekverkoper Nieuwe Westerstraat 148 te Enkhuizen, 1790 -1804) ...

Ik raakte destijds bij de OLB-zaak betrokken omdat ik van een bekende Westfries, mr.dr.Arian de Goede de raad en opdracht kreeg om in het archief van Enkuizen speurwerk te verrichten naar een boekverkoper in de Nw. Westerstraat. Dit in verband met het Oera Linda Boek. De reden was dat deze De Goede, later hoogleraar te Bandoeng, aantekeningen van zijn betovergrootvader Arian Janz. de Goede, maire en dijkgraaf van de Schermer, bezat, waarin sprake was van deze boekverkoper in de Nw.Westerstraat, die in het bezit zou zijn van een kroniek die terug ging tot 2000 jaar voor de geboorte van Christus. Hij wilde deze kroniek kopen, maar de man wilde dat niet, zeggende dat het een eeuwenoude familiekroniek was.

(Wigholt Vleer)

 

Johannes Jans Over de Linden (book seller Nieuwe Westerstraat 148,  Enkhuizen, 1790 -1804) ...

I got involved in the OLB-case at that time because I got from a well known West Frisian, mr.dr.Arian de Goede the advice and task to do research in the archive of Enkuizen about a book seller in the Nw. Westerstraat. This in connection with the Oera Linda Book. The reason for this was that this De Goede, later professor in Bandoeng, had in his possession notes from his great-great-grandfather Arian Janz. de Goede, maire and dike warden of the Schermer, in which this book seller in the Nw.Westerstraat was mentioned, who allegedly was the owner of a chronicle that went back to 2000 year before the birth of Christ. He wanted to buy this chronicle, but the man did not want [to agree], saying that it was a centuries old family chronicle.

(Wigholt Vleer)

Edited by Ell
typo & forgotten to translate jaar into year
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14 hours ago, Passing Time said:

And K = G , so how does this relate to the inga-evones , or does they relate at all to Inka ??

It might.

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Posted (edited)

On 6/20/2016 at 11:11 AM, Passing Time said:

EA (ENKI)( VE ?) [...] EN-LIL(VILI)

While the exact spelling may vary from culture to culture, the differing significant vowel or consonant is retained. Like in Odin the central "od" is retained whether one writes it as Odinn, Uuden, Wodin, Wotan, Ota etc. Similarily, it seems that his brothers Vili and Ve are likewise differentiated by I and E. We saw earlier similar case with the king Gylfi of the Swedish sources, who is the Wodin's opponent Magy in the OLB, which shows us that the sound ”gy” was retained between the sources (Gylfi & Magy). Thus, one could do the – admittedly wild –  phonetic speculation as follows: 

Inka - Ea-Enki - Ve?

Vili - En-Lil - Teunis?

Passing Time's great remark on the Inka-Inga-Ingaevones is something I have thought of lately. Dugin mentions the Ingaevones two times in his text, but doens't seem to make the Inka-Inga connection. If it's a variant of the three brothers story as told by Tacitus (source), then the Inka would mean 'an Ynglingan', or alternatively the Ynglingan, as in Sturluson's Ynglingatal and in Bock's Ynglingaätt, would possibly mean 'a descedant of Inka' (more information here).

 

Comparison.png

Edited by FromFinland

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Oera Linda book, chapter 53:

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They said afterwards that Askar had lost the battle against the Gauls, because the people did not believe that Wodin could help them, and therefore they would not pray to him. 

Ynglingasaga, chapter 2:

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[Odin's] people also were accustomed, whenever they fell into danger by land or sea, to call upon his name; and they thought that always they got comfort and aid by it, for where he was they thought help was near.

 

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