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Abramelin

Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 3]

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8 hours ago, FromFinland said:

Large parts of it are outright mythological, with the 250+ km underground temple of Balder stocked with gold being a gold standard example of a trippy DMT vision. ... Stories of such underground bases, often larger below ground than above ground, full of treasure or high technology are often mentioned in Nordic folk tales about trolls living underground

That description concurs with my independent analysis of the spacehabitat of the Underworld, that I estimated to be about 230 km in length, if I recall correctly. Exposed alternately to the heat of the sun and the extreme cold of space, the expansion and contraction of its hull sprung countless microscopic air leaks. I also identified the Underworld as being identical with the world Nibiru of the Sumerians. According to Zecharia Sitchin - who erroneously perceived Nibiru to be a real planet instead of a spacehabitat - its inhabitants used colloidal gold suspended in its air to close its air leaks.

 

I therefore reject the unsubstantiated hypothesis that the temple of Balder story is a DMT vision.

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On 7/3/2016 at 3:11 AM, FromFinland said:

If on the other hand it becomes apparent that the manuscript existed already before the 1820s, the possibility of Finnish Thyr being a literary loan or forgery would diminish almost to zero.

It has became apparent that there existed a source available to Jan Over de Linden already in 1831. The story of deified Finnish Thyr or Thorri is told in addition to old Finnish poems in two Icelandic sources: Flateyjarbók and Orkneyinga saga (1, 2, 3). First one became commercially available in 1860, whereas the latter had been available since 1780 (1, 2). The latter text was published in Latin language, which was widely known by academics back then. Flateyjarbók was kept in those days in Royal Library of Copenhagen which was open to public since 1793. This means I take back my words on the above citation, as a dedicated and travelling academic could indeed have accessed the relevant material.

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There is a Roman fortress and a district both called Inchtuthil in Scotland. 

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I have now went through the Aarne-Thompson folktale classification system and found one match from the Oera Linda book. Chapter 3 Book of Adela's followers:

"When the Magy found this out, he took the handsomest of his Finns and Magyars, and promised them “red cows with golden horns” to let themselves be taken prisoners by our people in order to spread his doctrines."

It's a reference to 511A type folktale, The Little Red Ox. Please see the attached photo.

511ATheLittleRedOxAarne-Thompson1961.jpg

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14 hours ago, FromFinland said:

and promised them “red cows with golden horns

This was a mistranslation by Ottema, which was copied by Sandbach.

Original text:

[003/02] VRLOVANDE.RA KY MITH GOLDEN HORNA

lit. promising them cows with golden horns

RA means them here, not red

Compare following line:

SA HJA.RA THRVCH VS FOLK FATA DÉDON

lit. if they-them through our folk catch did (if they let themselves be taken prisoners by our people)

Another example:

[008/20] FON HIARA SUSTERUM LÉTON HJA.RA THJANJA

By their sisters they had them(selves) served

"To promise cows with golden horns" is still a Dutch expression, similar to "to promise mountains of gold", in other words promise something impossible, or promise something without living up to it. (source)

Edited by Ott
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Antonie Niermeyer, "Verhandeling over het booze wezen in het bijgeloof onzer natie: eene bijdrage tot de kennis onzer voorvaderlijke mythologie" (1840) goo.gl/3Lufw4

("Treatise about the evil being in the superstition of our nation: a contribution to the knowledge of our ancestral mythology")

Quote

Wij zijn niet zoo rijk als de Scandinaviërs, wij bezitten geene Edda's, geene lange reeks van Sagen enz,

(We are not as rich as the Scandinavians, we possess no Edda's, no long series of Saga's etc,)

Apparently Niermeyer in 1840 had no knowledge about the existence of the OLB.

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On Yonaguni and OLB

In 2010 and 2014 discussion here was about the significance of the Yonaguni monument, including if such sunken land might have caused a westward expansion of peoples (talk 12; monument 1, 2).

Today I watched a foreign English language tv documentary about it, where the female narrator dived at the place and showed to the camera wedge like dents (^) in the stone that looked like man-made to her (and my, too) eyes. I'm aware that some Asian cultures shape stones for religious purposes in such a discreet fashion, that they do not scream "man made" from ten miles away. Likewise, some Nordic rune stones are such that only one side is decorated and the another is left completely natural as it is. If such a stone falls, there is no way to know it's a runestone without lifting every single large stone up in the forests and fields.

This all has importance for the Yonaguni site, where it's a bit difficult to see clearly if it's a natural formation or natural formation enchanted by ancient human hands. Likewise, the temple site of Sipoo despite having a cave sealed with stone blocks confirmed in excavations since 1987, just as per the story given out already in 1984, is such in it's outer shapes that it's sometimes difficult to tell for sure if it's natural and odd formation, or something that was shaped by our ancestors. As per the story, the place had been in use since the stone age and was hidden in 987 A.D., meaning it could have significant natural erosion and even purposeful obscuring of man made looking shapes.

What caught my attention OLB-wise in the above mentioned tv documentary was that the female narrator mentioned that there are sunken underwater caves nearby to Yonaguni. From them divers have found stalactites or stalagmites, which are not created underwater as per the documentary. Tv documentary continued that this is proof that those sites were above water 3000 B.C, implying that nearby Yonaguni was likely too. If it was above ground 3000 B.C, it's theoretically possible it sank in the very same 2194 B.C catastrophe mentioned in the Oera Linda book. This I wanted to bring your attention, as Wikipedia page on Yonaguni doesn't mention the nearby underwater caves and the obvious implications it has for the Yonaguni main site.

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On Lapps and OLB

Abramelin in 2014 mentioned the possibility that this Asiatic catastrophy deep in the Finda's land could have caused an emigration of Asian peoples. The Oera Linda book is quiet on the origins of the Finnish eastern branch of the Nordic white race and it's a bit unclear if we rank as Fryan or as Findaic. Clearly we're not pure Fryans, though I note Oera Linda book is so puritanistic that even Franks and Germans are considered just barely human beings. We note that deep in the Russia Finnic peoples blend to the Asian races, and if we go south towards the Crimea and Armenia the people get less and less Finnish and first more Slavic, followed by more darker Asiatic southerners. Race scientist think that having this element of Asian race in our blood is what gives Finns good average intelligence (1), as Asian people are the god-tier when it comes to racial intelligence on our planet.

The Bock saga clearly states that in the very early centuries after the ice age all Nordics were more or less one people or different branches of it. Finns are explicitly said to have re-inhabited the modern Finland, Estonia and Russia from west to east, all the way until meeting the Asians at east and southerners at south. Non-Nordic cultures nearest to Finns are called by names as Piiking (Peking, or Chinese), Narkassul (Hindus of India) and Sulttaani (Middle East). Whether this explains the Ainu people of Japan, I don't know. After this great eastward expansion of the white race's eastern branch, it mentions that since then southern - i.e. darker - peoples have come more northwards, but doesn't give us a date or more detailed account than that (1). In addition, the Laplanders (Sami) are explicitly said to have arrived from Tibet "about 5000 years ago", or about 3000 B.C. No reason is given for this long journey. The Bock saga details them as living peacefully along with us Finns and the Scandinavians, and having the same so-called "devil-worship" as us. When Catholic crusaders destroyed southern Finland in 1050 A.D, one branch of the ruling Æsir family fled all the way to the Lapland and lived there in peace with the Lapps from 1050 to 1250 A.D., according to the saga. 

This goes against the grain politically, because in modern view the Lapps are the original Nordics and we Finns, Russians, Swedes, Norwegians are just later invaders. In my country Finland I as an ethnic Finn do not have a legal status as "native", unlike a Lapp who has such status regardless of if he dwells in Lapland proper or in Helsinki. In my opinion Laplanders as people are okay and good people, but surely you see how this legal recognition is not exactly spot on. I do not know if it's the same strange situation in Russia, Sweden and Norway where there are Lapps, too.

Personally I note that the true Lapps of the northernmost Lapland do infact look somewhat foreign or Asian: small stature, grey eyes and less facial hair. Many a Lapp is of a mixed heritage, so sometimes it can be really difficult to say who is a Lapp or a Finn from face alone. The fact that highest concentration of Nordic white racial features on this planet lies in Baltic region (1, 2), suggest to my mind that it's also the birthplace of Nordic white race. Many a southern foreigner who lives here in Finland for decades feels cold and hot just as us natives and their skin colour begans slowly to became paler. Yet their facial shapes, hair and eye colours etc. are not a bit different from their southern cousins. Obviously such things are not created in small amount of time.

This is quite a bit of extrapolation, but I wonder if the Yonaguni site sinking post-3000 B.C, Oera Linda book's sinking of Atlant in the heart of the Finda's land 2194 B.C. and the arrival of Tibetian Lapps at about 3000 B.C are somehow connected to each other. The Oera Linda book describes the harassers of the Finns in 2092 B.C as horsemen, which doesn't fit well with Lapps who live more like the Asiatic peoples of northern Russia, but fits well with the more Mongol-like forces that drove Finnish Bjarmians to Norway in 13th century A.D. If this means the Lapps came a thousand yeats before the OLB horsemen, it means there were a whole series of westward movements by Asian peoples to North Europe, of which Bock saga records the first in circa 3000 B.C., OLB the second in 2092 B.C. and the Norwegian sources the third in 1240 A.D in connection with the larger Mongol invasion of Europe. Of course, the savage horsemen harrying Finns in 2092 B.C could be also more geographically closer peoples, like forefathers of the Scythians or the Huns, for example.

Edited by FromFinland
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As Wodin-Odin has a large passing place in Oera Linda book, here's a whole 13 part video series on him: The Story of Odin. I note the comments under part 10 discuss the possibility that once historical warchief called Odin might have actually died in Estonia, which is something I have read of, too.

Interestingly the author sees much evidence for Noah story in the Scandinavian and Icelandic sources. The Bock saga of the alleged Æsir origins has this theme too (1), as does the Gylfaginning where Æsir tell the story of Noah by the way of hrimthursar Bergelmir (1, chapter VII) to Swedish king Gylfi. And this Gylfi is just as the same as the Mágy the enemy of Wodin in Oera Linda book, which we can be certain of by comparing Oera Linda book to Heimskringla's Ynglinga saga.

I cannot but to note that Finnish mythology opens some things in Scandinavian lore, too. In Gylfaginning the Njördr of Noatun's fame ("Noah's town") has a wife, whose father is a giant living in a place "which is on certain mountains, in the place called Thrymheimr". This is of course Turjanmaa, or the Land of Turja, home of hrimthursar-giants known today by names Finnmark and Ruija (1Kristfrid Ganander, Mythologia Fennica 1789, on words Turjan-meri, Turjan Tunturit). Oera Linda book calls this same area "back of our Schoonland": vs Skênland. Skênland was sunnich bifolkath, ând anda æfter-kâd thæt sunnichste fon al (1).

Edited by FromFinland
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On 4-10-2016 at 10:50 PM, FromFinland said:

...

This is quite a bit of extrapolation, but I wonder if the Yonaguni site sinking post-3000 B.C, Oera Linda book's sinking of Atlant in the heart of the Finda's land 2194 B.C. and the arrival of Tibetian Lapps at about 3000 B.C are somehow connected to each other. The Oera Linda book describes the harassers of the Finns in 2092 B.C as horsemen, which doesn't fit well with Lapps who live more like the Asiatic peoples of northern Russia, but fits well with the more Mongol-like forces that drove Finnish Bjarmians to Norway in 13th century A.D. If this means the Lapps came a thousand yeats before the OLB horsemen, it means there were a whole series of westward movements by Asian peoples to North Europe, of which Bock saga records the first in circa 3000 B.C., OLB the second in 2092 B.C. and the Norwegian sources the third in 1240 A.D in connection with the larger Mongol invasion of Europe. Of course, the savage horsemen harrying Finns in 2092 B.C could be also more geographically closer peoples, like forefathers of the Scythians or the Huns, for example.

Just to get a clear picture of your view: do you tend to think Aldland (the land that sunk under water) then equates Findas Kashmir as we know it in the Himalaya?

Unrelated whether this actually is your view or not, I myself sometimes rather automatically find myself in this position but at the same time find this stand quite troublesome when stretching it all further with the OLB narrations.   Because when relating this stand with the actual text, one could be let to cocnclude by the text all finda's were living alltogether in the Kashmirian valley and began their search for dry/livable lands after the calamity until northern-western Europe?

If Aldland sunk and was the heimat of Finda, it should have been a much bigger area cfr Caspian Sea imo.

cfr

... In êra tyda hêmadon Findas folk mêst algadur invr hjara moders bærta-lând, mit nôma ald-lând that nw vnder-ne sê lêith...

... In-t hirte fon Findas lând vppet berchta lêid en del, thêr is kêthen Kasamyr ...

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On 10/13/2016 at 9:52 PM, Van Gorp said:

Just to get a clear picture of your view: do you tend to think Aldland (the land that sunk under water) then equates Findas Kashmir as we know it in the Himalaya?

Sorry for the late answer - I have been travelling lately. 

"In early times almost all the Finns ["Finda's folk", not "Finns"] lived together in their native land, which was called Aldland, and is now submerged. They were thus far away, and we had no wars. When they were driven hitherwards, and appeared as robbers, then arose the necessity of defending ourselves, and we had armies, kings, and wars."

Chapter 8 quote above makes the Aldland a distant land to West Europe: an Atlantic Aldland or Doggerlandian Aldland is clearly not meant. The language is not clear if they were driven by other peoples or by nature's causes. The ethnicity is however more clear: they are "robbers" because of whom free and peaceful Fryans had to make war. This suggests an ethnicity other than North European and reeks of the description of Findaic Tatars in chapter 48 ("They are all horsemen and robbers."). As Finns are described as at times peaceful and as "not wild people, like most of Finda’s race" and themselves being driven westward by horsemen (chapter 23), this suggests that the Aldland was to the east beyond the borders of Europe.

At chapter 22, the depiction given on the sitation predecing sinking of Aldland sounds very generic and international. It mentions mountains - please correct if I'm wrong - but the whole Benelux area does not have much mountains. That there was reportedly lava sighted in Germany speaks of huge earthquakes and suggests a global catastrophe, not just a distant tsunami or something like that. To have fire in conjuction with floods in noteworthy detail, for it's reported even from American Indian legends about the demise of primaeval giants etc. I note Bock saga and Old Testament too has this element where some people were like waiting for something really bad to happen, as if they knew it would come to happen (story of Rafael and Sara at the end of the ice age, story of Noah).

That seamen and tidal waves are mentioned in connection with Aldland suggests strongly that it was a sea nation or an island. By chapter 22, Aldland does not equate to Finda's land, latter of which's mass lies clearly in the far, far east in the nations of Romans, Greeks, Egyptians, Hindus etc. Finland and Russia may be a northern border zone with a less Fryan culture, a something culturally in-between just like the Germans.

"Troops of Finda’s people came and settled in the empty places. Our dispersed people were exterminated or made slaves."

To my mind that suggests non-European, or alternatively border-European or dark skinned south European peoples made an migration of peoples deep into European heartlands, like Germany, France or Scandinavia, resulting in ethnic cleansing. 

Chapter 24:

"Inka thought that perchance some high-lying part of Atland might remain as an island, where he and his people might live in peace."

"When Atland was submerged there was much suffering also on the shores of the Mediterranean, on which account many of Finda’s people, Krekalanders, and people from Lyda’s land, came to us. "

These two quotes suggest that a. Atland was not in the Mediterranean, with no easy connected to it in the eastern part, like Black sea or Red Sea and b. confuses east and west. The latter b refers to Atlantic legend of Land's End at Southern Britain and to the fact that this so very much eastern Findaic Aldland is suddenly not attainable by voyaging to east - which is the whole meaning of the Mediterranean sea as a sea route - but going to exactly the other Atlantic or Western choise, regardless of whether it meant going south to African coast, north to Scandinavia or Russia or west to Atlantic Ocean and Americas beyond. This would mean that after 109 years or so from the sinking of the Altland its exact location is already mythical: "somewhere over there". This reminds strongly of how Asgard is depicted in Snorre Sturlason's Ynglingasaga (chapters 10 & 15 here), though clearly Inka would have known if the Aldland would have lied in Baltic Sea or in Turkey's vicinity.

Chapter 44:

"Sixteen hundred years ago (she writes, 593 B.C.), Atland was submerged; and at that time something happened which nobody had reckoned upon. In the heart of Findasland, upon a mountain, lies a plain called Kasamyr (Cashmere) that is “extraordinary.” "

Atland can submerge and yet the "heart of Findasland" exists as if nothing happened. This suggests to my mind that Findasland here equates to Asia and the heart aspect to the centrality of it: see here. I think that Shambhala is thought to be in the same Asiatic regions is no coincidence, either.

So the answer is no, I do not think Aldland equates to Kashmir. I do not know, based on the Oera Linda book text alone, where the Aldland existed. It's as if the Oera Linda story has two stories mixed in it: the eastern Findaic mythical Asia (Shambhala, Krishna, mystery cults, warrior horsemen) and western Atlantic story (sunken land, Land's End islands, Atlantis name). This results in an Inka story that can't decide whether to go east or west, for Aldland is the homeland of east people yet Inka went anywhere but east. This would'n be first case of confused geography on old sources, mind you. Oera Linda book as a source may have gone through many authors who had no better clue than we as to where Aldland was situtioned and may have been afficted by Plato's Atlantis stories etc. As for eastern Asian mythic elements, I know quite a few Norse sources describing Norse-Indian connections (and Finno-Indian connections, too), so those Findaic stories might have come by the way of Norse travellers (as opposed to being a 19th century forgery).

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In chapter 44 much is written about Slavs being the extreme case of brutal slavery under a dictatorship, at least by North European (Fryan) standards. Considering that Nordic concept of slavery is more like thralldom or serfdom (Tacitus Germania, Bock saga etc.) than slavery in actual chains, this is a noteworthy literary clue which has a strong parallel in Saxo Grammaticus's Gesta Danorum, which has hardly a single book that doesn't make something about Slavs rebelling against their tyrannical masters or similar slave-themed subjects.

As per oeralinda.webs.com website, Gosa is said to have written about Slavic slavery in 593 B.C. which would make it an old literary tradition to have survived into 12th century Denmark. As I'm not acquanted with Slavic history in general, I can't make here commentary on the accuracy. I believe either the Slavic slavery theme was ripped from Saxo's work or belongs to the same literary tradition as Gesta Danorum, which would suggest that Slavic tyranny and slavery was once a real deal. I note the chapter 44's beginning with the Slavic slavery, while being much on the larger subject of morals and virtues, is a bit cut and paste job. If it's removed, rest of the chapter doesn't suffer a bit. Chapter kicks off with European slavery of Slavs, yet the very next paragraph on Jesus-Krishna-Buddha is mostly about remote Asian mountains. The text might well have been edited post-Gosa for stylistical reasons, for the same reason Gesta Danorum writes at length on Slavic slavery.

Edited by FromFinland

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What I find also interesting is the existence of an Altland in Magyar's heartland.

aka Panonian Hun-garia

Panonia -> Vennen-land -> Finland

Altland (oud-land) is the general name (still remains in geographical names ) to describe an area of land 'previously' under water but regained by diking fi.

In short: under influence of flooding or previously flooded.

So if Aldland was called Aldland before the submerging of it: it was allready then under influence of flooding but recovered (by man or nature?).

Question remains: if it was still under sea when that part was written, must it be now?

Of all places when having enough of Finda people, Inka is on search of some remaining Finda's land?

I sometimes think that the remaining 'Aldland' he was searching could be as well another Aldland (being any land again recovered from the sea).

 

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I also think that different OLB authors had different ideas about what, when and where ALDLAND (old-land) was. That its submersion was the beginning of their calendar would rather suggest it be their own old (former) land (Frisland? Doggerland? a combination? much land was lost outside what is now the Frisian coasts) than that of Finda's people (perhaps the land from Frya's myth/ode "that is now a stream"), but the OLB offers no clear answers except for the vague clues mentioned above.

Has anyone here looked into the expanding Earth model? It makes much more sense than Pangaea theory i.m.o. and could shed some new light on all this.

 

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On 10/25/2016 at 8:28 AM, Van Gorp said:

Panonia -> Vennen-land -> Finland

This may be relevant to your thinking: in Finnish language Russia is not Ru-something, as in Russia, Rosland, Ruthenia, but instead Venäjä. I can't but help to think that this remids highly of Snorre's Vanaheim, which lies in modern southern Russia, north of the Black sea (chapter 1). 

In Bock saga, all the Finnish speaking peoples of Finland, Estonia, Russia etc. and their more darker-skinned neighbours at south and east are Vanir of one type or another, and place names like Vanaja and Vantaa are explicitly said to be remnants of that cultural age. As in Helsinki-Vantaa international airport today, with Vantaa said to come from Van-dal, or "a valley of the Vanir".

When I read from Wikipedia on Hungarians and Scythians, I note their base area is exactly this same southern Russian area: Hungarian urheimat and Dentumoger.

Clearly Oera Linda book could be of vast interest for eastern European scholars, as it describes these east-to west migrations stemming from Europe's eastern border already in bronze age, implying that the later Hunnic, Cuman and Mongol invasions constituted a later Medieval part of a much older tradition by mounted horsemen living in the Eurasian steppes. This would put the wild robber-Tartars and Finn-harrying eastern horsemen of the Oera Linda book in cultural context.

The story of horsemen harrying Finns westward to Scandinavia is later echoed in Bjarmian Finns fleeing to Scandinavia before the Golden horde, just as similarily the stories of intrusions of Findaic troops deeply into the Fryan European heartlands is echoed in later times by the Battle of Chalons with Huns and incursions of Hungarians into Eastern Europe. This thousands of years old threat beyond the borders of the Europe would come to conclusion with the eastward expansion of Russia somewhere in the 17th and 18th centuries, with destruction of Ottoman Empire at 1924 being the final nail in the coffin of Asiatic threat.

There exists one major Eastern mystery, that might have some relevance to Oera Linda studies. That of the enigmatic lord of the animals. Is he a forgotten god, an archetypical role like that of a court jesters and harlequins, or a DMT archetype seen in trippy visions? He's known from Pashupati seal of Pakistan 2000 B.C, Gundestrup cauldron of Denmark from around 0 B.C., Gallehus horn of Denmark 400-something A.D, and most intriguingly, from the Romanian Tărtăria tablets from 5300 B.C. Please consider these points: 

  • Gundestrup cauldron noteworthily shows not just the figure and the associated animals, but also Audhumla the holy cow, as known also from Bock saga and Indian mythos (1, 2, 3, 4)
  • European Gallehus horn retains not only the figure, but also the writing script of the Asian Pashupati seal - 1400 years apart! (1, 2)
  • Asian Pashupati seal retains the distinctive three-pronged head dress, down falling hands and the elevated seat of the European Tărtăria tablets - 3300 years apart! (1, 2)

What is the that culture, or the cultural myth, that lives the timefrime of 5700 years and spreads all the way from Europe to Asia? Is it Findaic, is it Fryan, is it Æsiric - what is it?

Edited by FromFinland

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4 hours ago, Ott said:

Has anyone here looked into the expanding Earth model?

I did when it became news first time. I'm not sure if I buy the enlargement side of it, but the critisism of the current model seems valid to my mind, though. Perhaps this has something to do with the way earth was born, when the hot lava cooled and formed into continents on our spinning planet. For example:

  • why is South American continent a smaller clone of the African continent
  • why most continents have their western edges in straight north-south orientation ( ı ) with tall mountains
  • why most continents have their eastern edges in diagonal orientation ( / ) with no or little mountains?

If we move to topics closer to Oera Linda book themes, here's a video interview of two men who present evidence for world-wide cataclysmic events at the end of the last ice age, or the Atlantis of the Greeks and the Egyptians. Interestingly they discuss both enormours floods and fires, both of which are mentioned in the Oera Linda story albeit at later date. That being said, it might still be relevant for a similar but smaller-scale cataclysmic event might have caused the problems described in the Oera Linda book and Finnish heathen poetry (the Kaali crater hypothesis).

Edited by FromFinland

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Watching at the interview I linked above, I'm amazed at the similarity of geological changes the authors describe over there to the chapter 22 of Oera Linda book. Considering that natural sciences such as the study of ice age, is largely a 19th century and 20th century project, I wonder how the forgers could get the following details so right already at the same time when academics were just starting to study and publish material on theme:

"During the whole summer the sun had been hid behind the clouds, as if unwilling to look upon the earth."

aka "Atomic winter" or Ragnarökian "Fimbul winter". Can be caused by volcanic eruptions, amongst other causes.

"There was perpetual calm, and the damp mist hung like a wet sail over the houses and the marshes."

Persisting mist sounds like ice glaciers melting, with resulting extra high humidity. Or alternatively volcanic eruptions.

"Some sank into the bosom of the earth, and in other places mountains rose out of the plain."

Which according to the video link is a geological rule: see here

"Whole forests were burned one after the other, and when the wind blew from that quarter our land was covered with ashes.

Compare to this burning: wild fires.

"Rivers changed their course, and at their mouths new islands were formed of sand and drift."

Compare this to this: drifting sand.

"Many countries were submerged"

Compare to this: sunken lands.

1815 volcanic eruption of Mount Tambora might have been a source for some of the effects: sun hiding behind clouds and persisting mist. Sand drifting might be something that could be extrapolated out of observing ordinary rivers and sand behaviour over there. Huge wild fires together with simultaneous rising and submerging of lands might be more difficult to predict. This is something can't easily be explained away by merely saying that they borrowed other ancient sources, for then the question is how did those another old sources get that sort of information.

Edited by FromFinland

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11 hours ago, FromFinland said:

"There was perpetual calm,

and the damp mist hung like a wet sail over the houses and the marshes."

Very interesting observations.

The Sandbach translation badly needs to be improved, for example the above fragment. Original text (p.49):

WIND RESTON IN SINA BUDAR
WERTHRVCH RÉK ÀND STOM LIK SÉLA BOPPA HUS ÀND POLON STAND.

more literally:

wind rested in its bags (?)

causing smoke and steam to stand like pillars* over houses and pools

(* Oldfrisian "sel" - Dutch "zuil" - pillar, collumn)

I don't have a good new translation for this part yet.

Edited by Ott

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5 hours ago, Ott said:

WIND RESTON IN SINA BUDAR
wind rested in its bags (?)

"Ulysses received the winds in a leathern bag from Aeolus, King of the Winds." As bags close with pieces of rope or cord, some crafty Finnish, Lappish, Shetland and Island of Man sorcerers used to sell pieces of rope with knots for wind spells (1, 2).

Edited by FromFinland

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Jensma translated this as "Wind rustte in zijn builen," (which does not have a clear meaning) and added footnote that it is a pun (word-joke) on "windbuil".

"Windbuil" is an expression derived from "windbuidel" (windbag) referring to someone who is a boaster/ gas bag.

German has the same word: "Windbeutel" (cream puff or an irresponsible, superficial person).

These Dutch and German modern meanings may very well have evolved from an older, more literal meaning that is related to the Greek mythology (leather wind bag of Aeolus) and a Northern European understanding (as per OLB).

Does anyone know the Old Greek word that is used in the original Ulysses myth?

Isaac Moillon (1614 - 1673): Aeolus gives the winds (wind-bags) to Odysseus

Isaac_Moillon_-_%C3%89ole_donnant_les_ve

Edited by Ott

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26 minutes ago, Ott said:

 

These Dutch and German modern meanings may very well have evolved from an older, more literal meaning that is related to the Greek mythology (leather wind bag of Aeolus) and a Northern European understanding (as per OLB).

Does anyone know the Old Greek word that is used in the original Ulysses myth?

 

It's probably going to be lurking somewhere in lines 17-20, here.

 

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Thank you Windowpane! Found it:

δῶκε δέ μ᾽ ἐκδείρας ἀσκὸν βοὸς ἐννεώροιο,

translated (1919) as:

He gave me a wallet, made of the hide of an ox nine years old

ἀσκος - hide, skin, leather bag

Conclusion: no resemblance to Old Frisian BUDA for bag (Dutch/German: buidel/Beutel)

I found some more nice pictures of the mythological wind bag:

Iau1DU-wmIDLrfOLylYQM6irSRRJ7IlQQVzroXzB

svfGouJWU3Hxzr9VfCz6aRqWuSJYPrqzAPJd_M2k

http://hdl.handle.net/10934/RM0001.COLLECT.296768

http://hdl.handle.net/10934/RM0001.COLLECT.334654

Edited by Ott

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Ottema's translation (1872/1876) can now also be corrected:

"De wind rustte in zijn holen buidels", but it will need a footnote to explain.

Jensma's translation (2006) is toe-curling.

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1 hour ago, Ott said:

Ottema's translation (1872/1876) can now also be corrected:

"De wind rustte in zijn holen buidels", but it will need a footnote to explain.

Jensma's translation (2006) is toe-curling.

Brings this image of "windbag" or "windbuil" into mind when the wind rests in it.

geen-wind-ozone-vlag.jpg

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11 hours ago, Ott said:

Ottema's translation (1872/1876) ...:

"De wind rustte in zijn holen buidels"

Wirth (1933) in German translation: "Der Wind ruhte in seiner Höhle" ("holes" like in Ottema's translation)

So only after 144 years we are finally making sense of "BUDAR" in this fragment.

On itself, this case can be dismissed by the self-proclaimed sceptics as coincidence, educated guess or advanced joke by the alleged hoaxers, but there are so many examples like this that combined make a very strong case for authenticity.

If OLB was fake, this should become ever more obvious, but the opposite is the case...

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