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atrueoriginall

The Great Flood

38 posts in this topic

The Epic of Gilgamesh is perhaps, the oldest written story on Earth. It comes to us from Ancient Sumeria, and was originally written on 12 clay tablets in cunieform script. It is about the adventures of the historical King of Uruk somewhere between 2750 and 2500 BCE, which would place it between 1,160 to 1,410 years before Moses spoke and between 500 to 750 years before Abraham was born.

You need to remember something very important about Abraham. As a kid Abraham had to have known the story about the creation before Moses told it to the Israelites. This is called the Enuma Elish that came from Babylon that wasn’t far from where Abraham lived in UR.

The Enuma Elish was a creation story written well before Genesis. Just like I know who Peter Pan was, Abraham probably knew who Ishtar, Tiamat, Ea and Marduk were because these were the stories he heard as a kid. Many of these stories were of actual peoples lives and only later were called myths and legends. The story of Gilgamesh was where many of these stories came from.

First - here is a quote from the Enuma Elish.

When on high the heaven had not been named

Firm ground below had not been called by name

There was naught but Apsu, their begetter

And Mummu-Tiamat, she who bore them all...

The following are two more familiar verses taken from within “The Story of the Flood” by Gilgamesh, written between 2750 and 2500 BCE, many years before Abraham and Moses and most likely the same great flood story that was carried through until Moses repeated it in Genesis. If you read the story for yourself, Utanapishtim is representative of Noah. I have put the website below if you want to read Gilgamesh in its entirety except for some things spoken that were broken away from the tablets.

Tear down the house and build a boat!

Abandon wealth and seek living beings!

Spurn possessions and keep alive living beings!

Make all living beings go up into the boat.

The boat which you are to build, its dimensions

must measure equal to each other:

its length must correspond to its width.

I sent forth a dove and released it.

The dove went off, but came back to me;

no perch was visible so it circled back to me.

I sent forth a swallow and released it.

At the following website, you can read all tablets from Gilgamesh.

http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/gilgamesh/

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There was a flood topic started just before.

I wonder if a mod should merge them.. dontgetit.gif

Interesting info, nevertheless thumbsup.gif

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No please. I don't want it buried in the muck.

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There were many creation stories told by mouth before Genesis was written, and many many many stories of great floods as well.

And it has been proven that people back then borrowed and stole from other stories, religions, and beliefs for thier own.

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Does anyone here have anymore then she had on the Enuma Elish? I would be VERY interested in reading that.

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Come on guys - Some one else ask her to give us more on the Enuma Elish and maybe she'll dig it up for us.

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Ok, Jack "O", you ole fancier of St. Lucile who met her doom, no thanks to you and your blackamoor friends. Here's the Enuma Elish Creation story you asked for. It's on the internet, ya know. atrue

TABLET I

WHEN on high the Heavens had not been named,

Firm ground below had not been called by name,

Nothing but ‘Primordial Apsu’ the Begetter, [Fresh Water]

and ‘Mummu Tiamat’, She Who Bore them All, [salt Water]

—their waters commingling as a single body—

No reed hut had been matted, no marsh land had appeared,

Uncalled by name, their destinies undetermined—

THEN it was that the Gods were formed within Them.

Lahmu [‘mud’] and Lahamu [‘Mrs. Mud’] were brought forth,

by name they were called

Before they had grown in age and stature.

Anshar [‘Upper Firmament’] and Kishar [‘Lower Firmament’] were

formed,

surpassing the others.

They prolonged the days, added on the years.

Anu was their heir, the rival of his fathers;

Yes, Anu, Anshar’s first-born, was his equal.

He begot in his image Nudimmud [ Ea ].

This Nudimmud was the master of his fathers;

Of broad wisdom, understanding, mighty in strength,

Mightier by far than his grandfather Anshar.

He had no rival among the gods, his brothers.

The divine brothers banded together,

They disturbed Tiamat as the surged back and forth,

Yes, they troubled the mood of Tiamat

By their hilarity in the Abode of Heaven.

Apsu could not lessen their clamor

And Tiamat was speechless at their ways.

Their doings were loathsome to [ ].

Unsavory were their ways; they were overbearing.

Then Apsu, the Begetter of the Great Gods,

Cried out, addressing Mummu his Vizier:

“O Mummu, my Vizier, who makes my spirit rejoice,

Come hither and let us go to Tiamat!”

They went and sat down before Tiamat,

Exchanging counsel about the gods, their children.

Apsu, opening his mouth, said to Resplendent Tiamat:

“Their ways are truly loathsome to me,

By day I find no relief, nor sleep at night.

I will destroy, I will wreck their ways,

So that quiet may be restored. Let us have rest!”

As soon as Tiamat heard this,

She was angry and called out to her husband;

she cried out aggrieved as she raged all alone,

Injecting woe into her mood:

“What? Should we destroy that which we have built?

Their ways indeed are most troublesome, but let us attend kindly!”

Then answered Mummu, giving counsel to Apsu;

Ill-wishing and ungracious was Mummu’s advice:

“Do destroy, my father, the mutinous ways.

Then you will have relief by day and rest at night!”

When Apsu heard this, his face grew radiant

Because of the evil he planned against the gods his sons.

As for Mummu, he embraced him by the neck

As he sat down on his knees to kiss him.

Now all that they had planned between them was

repeated to the Gods, their children.

When the Gods heard, they were upset,

then they lapsed into silence and remained speechless.

Ea-Nuddimud, surpassing in wisdom, accomplished, resourceful,

Ea the All-Wise, saw through their scheme.

A master design against it he devised and set up,

Made artful his spell against it...

... Having fettered Apsu he slew him...

[Tiamat appoints Kingu to be her champion to avenge Apsu and

conquer the Younger Gods. The Younger Gods respond by

deciding to seek their own leader and Champion.]...

TABLET II

..All the Anunnaki gathered;

their lips closed tight they sat in silence,

“No god (they thought) can go to battle and

Facing Tiamat, escape with his life.”

Lord Anshar, Father of the Gods, arose in grandeur,

And, having pondered in his heart, said to the Anunnaki:

“He whose strength is potent shall be our Avenger,

He who is keen in battle, Marduk, the Hero!”...

[Marduk replies to the invitation:]

...“Creator of the Gods, destiny of the Great Gods,

If I indeed, as your Avenger,

Am to vanquish Tiamat and save your lives,

Set up the Assembly, proclaim supreme my destiny!

When you have sat down together rejoicing in Ubshukinna

Let my word, instead of you, determine the fates.

Unalterable shall be what I may bring into being;

Neither recalled nor changed shall be the command of my lips.”

TABLET III

...They made ready to leave on their journey,

All the Great Gods who dtermine the fates.

They entered before Anshar, filling Ubshukinna.

They kissed one another in the Assembly.

They ate festive bread, poured the wine,

They wetted their drinking tubes with sweet intoxicant.

As they drank the strong drink, their bodies swelled.

They became very languid as their spirits rose.

For Marduk the Avenger they fixed the decrees.

They erected for him a princely throne.

Facing his fathers, he sat down, presiding....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edited by atrueoriginall

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In regards to Noahs ark, it was scientifically proven after mud deposits were found in the area, that Noahs 'location' was actually flooded after the two rivers on either side burst. In those days it was rare for anyone to travel; if there land flooded they assumed the entire world flooded.

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I use to wonder about the location of the ark, but came to the logical conclusion that they probably did the obvious thing and broke it down to build a house and a two horse, two deer, two cat, two cow garage for a three dog night.

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Always liked reading the Gilgamesh epic....might wanna look into the Ugarit tablets. They are much more recent (written in a Canaanite dialect) dating to about 200 years before the supposed Exodus. They are nearly identical with the creation and flood stories in Genesis. Doesn't take much to see where the Hebrews copied their stories from, does it?

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Always liked reading the Gilgamesh epic....might wanna look into the Ugarit tablets.  They are much more recent (written in a Canaanite dialect) dating to about 200 years before the supposed Exodus.  They are nearly identical with the creation and flood stories in Genesis.  Doesn't take much to see where the Hebrews copied their stories from, does it?

394550[/snapback]

I myself do not believe them to be stories rather then actual events but maybe misconstrued as time went on. I believe that intervention was present during those times. Sure, the stories had to come forward in some fashion. Most likely, a continuing saga for a greater reason as history progressed.

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[attachmentid=9132]Biblical archaeologists are reasonably certain that the accounts of a massive flood by many cultures around the world yield significant confirmation that the Great Flood did in fact happen.

A best seller, The Secret of Ararat (action adventure fiction, filled with solid facts from archaeology, NASA findings and other sciences) is the easiest way to find out just how much information is available. (At your local library now.)

25,000 archaeological discoveries have been found to date confirming Biblical events. Many of these were thought to have been the imaginations of the authors by many before the findings.

The November issue of The Bible Code Newsletter (published monthly free by the web site at www.onealclan.com) published several photos of 9th Dynasty Egyptian chariots, weaponry, bones, carved tablets and other discoveries at the bottom of the Red Sea, confirming the story of Exodus and parting of the Red Sea.

post-8917-1102643625.jpg

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[attachmentid=9132]Biblical archaeologists are reasonably certain that the accounts of a massive flood by many cultures around the world yield significant confirmation that the Great Flood did in fact happen.

A best seller, The Secret of Ararat (action adventure fiction, filled with solid facts from archaeology, NASA findings and other sciences) is the easiest way to find out just how much information is available. (At your local library now.)

25,000 archaeological discoveries have been found to date confirming Biblical events. Many of these were thought to have been the imaginations of the authors by many before the findings.

The November issue of The Bible Code Newsletter (published monthly free by the web site at www.onealclan.com) published several photos of 9th Dynasty Egyptian chariots, weaponry, bones, carved tablets and other discoveries at the bottom of the Red Sea, confirming the story of Exodus and parting of the Red Sea.

395385[/snapback]

"Biblical" archaeologists have almost no credibility in the archaeological community, trust me. I would be really weary of any of these "confirmations" that the Great Flood or the parting of the Red Sea really happened.

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Re: The Great Flood............The Black Sea

http://ocean-ridge.ldeo.columbia.edu/BlackSeaShelf/BlackSeaText.html

Abstract

At this time (7,550 calendar years BP), farming, which had already been established in Greece, Bulgaria, Romania and along the coast of the Marmara Sea (Özdagan, 1983; van Andel and Runnels, 1995), spread rapidly inland along the major river valleys of southeastern Europe (Greg, 1988; Hodder, 1990). The light plow and simple irrigation appear abruptly in the Transcaucasus (Glumac and Anthony, 1991). Such "wave-of-advance" population movements (Sokal, Oden et al., 1991) could have been induced by the permanent expulsion of inhabitants which had adapted to the natural resources of the formerly-emerged Black Sea peripherynamely, its arable loess, alluvial soil, and the moist loam of the freshly exposed bed of its shrinking shoreline.

Fig. 5. Reconstructed levels in the Mediterranean “M” and Black Seas “B“, and their connections/isolations via the SOÇ-Dardanelles and SOI-Bosporus sill “S“. On the left is a portrayal of the gradual inflow model (Degens and Ross, 1972; Deuser, 1972; Deuser, 1974) in which the first connection was made at (9,000 calendar year BP). The depth of the strait deepened slowly as global eustatic sea level continued to rise, leading to an acceleration in the strengthening of the Black Sea's salinity. On the right is our catastrophic flood model in which the Mediterranean broke through a barrier in the inlet at (7,150 calendar year BP) and rapidly flooded a partly evaporated freshwater lake. Here increase in the Black Sea's salinity is shown to have been initially abrupt and then to have later decelerated.

Edited by atrueoriginall

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It shoud be obvious to anyone that Genisis could not have been written at the beginning of time. Really, it doesn't matter when it was written, only that it was the divinely inspired word of God. Simply because Genisis may have been written after the epic of Gilgemesh does not mean that they are not talking about the same floods.

Everyone here expects the verses of the Bible to be almost a diary of the exact time described. Many of the events were not recored until long after the fact. Even I know this.

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I know what you are saying. I have firm beliefs. This post threw most for a loop though after reading other things I've posted to the contrary of this one. Keep em guessing.

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Everyone here expects the verses of the Bible to be almost a diary of the exact time described. Many of the events were not recored until long after the fact. Even I know this.

395918[/snapback]

Then how could they possibly be in any way accurate? I know you're not saying this...but a few hundred years of Chinese Whispers can't be taken seriously...

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Heres a thread u mite find interestingilgamesh

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Heres a thread u mite find interestingilgamesh

400046[/snapback]

Such "wave-of-advance" population movements (Sokal, Oden et al., 1991) could have been induced by the permanent expulsion of inhabitants which had adapted to the natural resources of the formerly-emerged Black Sea

Fig. 5. Reconstructed levels in the Mediterranean “M” and Black Seas “B“, and their connections/isolations via the SOÇ-Dardanelles and SOI-Bosporus sill “S“. On the left is a portrayal of the gradual inflow model (Degens and Ross, 1972; Deuser, 1972; Deuser, 1974) in which the first connection was made at (9,000 calendar year BP)

Goes without saying, but above written and scientifically proven by modern day scientists.

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one thing im interested in is the supposed link between the annunaki and the sumerians and how the sumerians created an almost perfect model of the solar system inc, the sumerians home planet nibru or whatever it was called , which has an elliptical orbit.

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Hello Everyone,

On the subject of the 'Flood' and Noah's Ark, I came to the conclusion a long time ago that the flood was NOT confined to Noah's region only, if you consider flood myths all over the world. Noah's name changes, but the details remain the same. Also, consider the flooding (or sinking) of Atlantis, the freezing of Antarctica, and the great ice age which all could very well coincide with ONE event. One catastrophe. The great flood could have been an effect of A) An island sinking (possibly Atlantis), cool.gif the shifting of the Earths crust (that sent Antarctica into colder regions when infact NORTH AMERICA was once FROZEN while Antarctica was a lush green land). It also ties in with the fact that on the Egytian records, the first 22 or 32 Pharoahs are not written down. Noone knows who they were because the history between then was lost, and it was also about the time that Teotihuacan was abandoned.

I just think ONE cataclysm sent a domino effect throughout the world and if that is the case then it would mean that the flood was perhaps a global phenomena.

Just a thought.

I would like to here other conclusions.

WW

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I really like that view and I think its a great possibility...But its a phenomena and the truth is, we might never found out. (hopefully we do)

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I really like that view and I think its a great possibility...But its a phenomena and the truth is, we might never found out. (hopefully we do)

403820[/snapback]

I realized when reading this post that I should have put the complete abstract in, instead of pieces from two paragraphs because I left important information out in doing so.

http://ocean-ridge.ldeo.columbia.edu/Black...ackSeaText.html

Abstract

At this time (7,550 calendar years BP), farming, which had already been established in Greece, Bulgaria, Romania and along the coast of the Marmara Sea (Özdagan, 1983; van Andel and Runnels, 1995), spread rapidly inland along the major river valleys of southeastern Europe (Greg, 1988; Hodder, 1990). The light plow and simple irrigation appear abruptly in the Transcaucasus (Glumac and Anthony, 1991). Such "wave-of-advance" population movements (Sokal, Oden et al., 1991) could have been induced by the permanent expulsion of inhabitants which had adapted to the natural resources of the formerly-emerged Black Sea peripherynamely, its arable loess, alluvial soil, and the moist loam of the freshly exposed bed of its shrinking shoreline.

Fig. 5. Reconstructed levels in the Mediterranean “M” and Black Seas “B“, and their connections/isolations via the SOÇ-Dardanelles and SOI-Bosporus sill “S“. On the left is a portrayal of the gradual inflow model (Degens and Ross, 1972; Deuser, 1972; Deuser, 1974) in which the first connection was made at (9,000 calendar year BP). The depth of the strait deepened slowly as global eustatic sea level continued to rise, leading to an acceleration in the strengthening of the Black Sea's salinity. On the right is our catastrophic flood model in which the Mediterranean broke through a barrier in the inlet at (7,150 calendar year BP) and rapidly flooded a partly evaporated freshwater lake. Here increase in the Black Sea's salinity is shown to have been initially abrupt and then to have later decelerated.

Go to the site and see more.

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Wow Wonderwoman, you managed to tie in about 100 million years to the great flood. Antartica started it's migration to it present postition with the breakup of Gowonland and very slowly migrated to it present position. Then you bring up pre-dynastic Egypt (of Scorpion King fame) which was well before writing, you attempt to link the Olmecs and Teotihuacan to all of that, even tho they were nearly 2000 years later. Admittedly we have few records from predynastic Egypt, put from the period that Xians say the Flood took place we have copious uninterrupted documents and records. Tho many cultures have flood stories, they very seldom remotely resemble the one in the bible, those that do are from related semite cultures! sleepy.gif

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