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WVK

How did the Incas create beautiful stone?

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This is not new but may be of interest:

"At its height the Inca Empire stretched from Quito, Equador, to Santiago, Chile, along the Andes Mountains of South America. In 1532 Pizarro and the Conquistadores captured the last Inca, Atahualpa, putting an end to this great empire. The Spaniards then proceeded to loot the empire of its vast riches of gold and silver; they melted the precious metal objects and cast them into ingots, which they shipped back to Spain. The "great golden dish two men across" found in the temple of the sun was cut into pieces for gambling chips before being melted (Garcilaso de la Vega, 1961). The Conquistadores did nor ask for what purposes the gold was used; they knew only that the metals were of great value in ingot form. Surely those savages could not have used the gold for anything but ornaments and barbarous religious trinkets; surely they couldn't have used it in their magnificent stonemasonry projects that remain at Machu Picchu and other Inca ruins (figure 1)."

http://www.ianlawton.com/am10.html

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Giza the Truth? Could this be an attempt to peddle some books product of a brain maxturbation raping virgin paper?

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Giza the Truth? Could this be an attempt to peddle some books product of a brain maxturbation raping virgin paper?

It's a reprint from of an article that appeared in Rocks and Minerals magazine, Vol. 65, Nov/Dec 1990.

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I've seen this before if the Inca's had this ability to make a solar reflector then it fairly easy to make one and show how well it works.

https://secretsofthe...ing-techniques/

http://www.reach-unl...s-and-egyptians

http://articles.lati..._inca-stonework

https://news.google....9,3141778&hl=en

A Fresnel type of lens will work to melt stone but then the Inca didn't have such technically aFAWK.

..so this idea is about thirty years old. The problem if I recall was making a reflective mirror that powerful and after thirty years where's the confirmation - not to mention that the Spanish and later Inca commentators didn't mention it.

Edited by Hanslune
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It's a reprint from of an article that appeared in Rocks and Minerals magazine, Vol. 65, Nov/Dec 1990.

Sent to them by .... " My thanks to correspondent Wayne Van Kirk for bringing it to my attention and forwarding a copy. "

So 'WVK' ... you send Rocks and Minerals an article, they print it, and now you can cite the article as printed by them.

:su

Many years back , when I was a youth ( so that long ago ) I remember watching a doco on this, maybe with the original 'postulator'. he made the mirror out of gold and fussed and fiddled with it as it did not cut stone. The focal length was wrong, the sun was not bright enough, the curve of the mirror was out ..... :whistle:

Eventually they tried it on cardboard, after much fiddling around he managed to singe the cardboard a bit ... and then seemed very pleased with himself !

But this must have been over 30 year ago .

deadhorse.gif

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Sent to them by .... " My thanks to correspondent Wayne Van Kirk for bringing it to my attention and forwarding a copy. "

So 'WVK' ... you send Rocks and Minerals an article, they print it, and now you can cite the article as printed by them.

You should strive to improve on your reading comprehension:

HOW DID THE INCAS CREATE SUCH BEAUTIFUL STONE MASONRY?© Ivan W. Watkins, Professor of Geoscience in the Department Of Earth

:no:

deadhorse.gif

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They tried solar thermal disaggregation on the same Nova special that gave us Protzen's hammerstone demonstration. The former didn't work nearly so well.

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I think you need to read what I actually wrote again. I did not even cite the author !

and you could brush up on your quoting and posting skills ;)

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Could examination of the surfaces determine the method?

That idea is at least 50 years old.

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Time Warp.

It's just a jump to the left.

And then a step to the right.

With your hand on your hips.

You bring your knees in tight.

But it's the sunlight cuts.

They really drive you insane ......

Edited by back to earth
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This is not new but may be of interest:

"At its height the Inca Empire stretched from Quito, Equador, to Santiago, Chile, along the Andes Mountains of South America. In 1532 Pizarro and the Conquistadores captured the last Inca, Atahualpa, putting an end to this great empire. The Spaniards then proceeded to loot the empire of its vast riches of gold and silver; they melted the precious metal objects and cast them into ingots, which they shipped back to Spain. The "great golden dish two men across" found in the temple of the sun was cut into pieces for gambling chips before being melted (Garcilaso de la Vega, 1961). The Conquistadores did nor ask for what purposes the gold was used; they knew only that the metals were of great value in ingot form. Surely those savages could not have used the gold for anything but ornaments and barbarous religious trinkets; surely they couldn't have used it in their magnificent stonemasonry projects that remain at Machu Picchu and other Inca ruins (figure 1)."

http://www.ianlawton.com/am10.html

Oh. Dear. Gods.

I'm ashamed that a fellow academic could be so inept as to not do basic research - but here we have a shining example of "I know about rocks therefore I can comment on architecture and sculpture." The first thing he should have done was look up national histories and he'd have found that the Incan empire was around in 1200-1500 AD and that they had metal tools. Facts that were known to any archaeologist who worked the area.

https://en.wikipedia...a#South_America

The second thing he should have done was email archaeologists who work in the area.

The real irony is that he'd howl with outrage if an archaeologist (improbably) identified the rock wall in Rockwall Texas as an ancient human stone wall. Yet he feels confident enough to comment on archaeology in such a lamebrained fashion.

Just as you should be suspicious of surgical advice given by a geologist, you really shouldn't take information about ancient structures from primary sources that are NOT archaeologists who work in other areas of the world. And you shouldn't take an Egyptologist's idea about MesoAmerica seriously because things were completely different.

Don't you have anything better than that pathetic article?

Edited by Kenemet
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This reminds me of the MythBusters episode where they tried to build an Archimedes death ray using a large bank of parabolicly placed mirrors. It didn't work. Not even a little.

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The first thing he should have done was look up national histories and he'd have found that the Incan empire was around in 1200-1500 AD and that they had metal tools. Facts that were known to any archaeologist who worked the area.

https://en.wikipedia...a#South_America

Apparently Protzen also forgot to consult archaeologists as no mention of metal tools being used:

"Protzen has spent many months in Inca country experimenting with different methods of shaping and fitting the same kinds of stones used by the Incas. He found that quarrying and dressing the stones were not problems at all using the stone hammers found in abundance in the area. Even the precision-fitting of stones was a relatively simple matter. The concave depressions into which new stones were fit were pounded out by trial and error until a snug fit was achieved. Protzen's first-hand experience is impressive and convincing. Certainly he required no radical solutions."

http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf044/sf044p01.htm

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Apparently Protzen also forgot to consult archaeologists as no mention of metal tools being used:

"Protzen has spent many months in Inca country experimenting with different methods of shaping and fitting the same kinds of stones used by the Incas. He found that quarrying and dressing the stones were not problems at all using the stone hammers found in abundance in the area. Even the precision-fitting of stones was a relatively simple matter. The concave depressions into which new stones were fit were pounded out by trial and error until a snug fit was achieved. Protzen's first-hand experience is impressive and convincing. Certainly he required no radical solutions."

http://www.science-f...44/sf044p01.htm

... and yet he starts talking about beaming light rays, etc. And forgets to mention the metal tools.

Anyway, we've now shown endless examples of "yes, modern men can whack stone into the same shapes as ancient men even if they didn't spend years learning the trade."

I really want some of the Mayanists to poke their noses out comment on these things.

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... and yet he starts talking about beaming light rays, etc. And forgets to mention the metal tools.

Huh?

Anyway, we've now shown endless examples of "yes, modern men can whack stone into the same shapes as ancient men even if they didn't spend years learning the trade."

Huh?

Again: Could examination of the surfaces determine whether they were formed with pounders (metal tools?) or cut with focused heat?

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... and yet he starts talking about beaming light rays, etc. And forgets to mention the metal tools.

Anyway, we've now shown endless examples of "yes, modern men can whack stone into the same shapes as ancient men even if they didn't spend years learning the trade."

I really want some of the Mayanists to poke their noses out comment on these things.

in fact, how easy it is can be seen here

and in case you don't have a chisel:

And here how the Indians did it at the same time:

look Mama, no diamond saw, no stone softening.

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in fact, how easy it is can be seen here

and in case you don't have a chisel:

And here how the Indians did it at the same time:

look Mama, no diamond saw, no stone softening.

An interesting collection of videos, none of which demonstrate the work product in question: tight-fitting, matched-face polygonal granite building blocks of large (or even small) size.

Assuming the intent here is to show that no one today is reproducing what we find in ancient megalithic walls, success has been met.

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An interesting collection of videos, none of which demonstrate the work product in question: tight-fitting, matched-face polygonal granite building blocks of large (or even small) size.

Assuming the intent here is to show that no one today is reproducing what we find in ancient megalithic walls, success has been met.

I told you a few hundred times: Put up the extra money that the construction with ancient means would cost and I'll find you the masons to do it. There is no secret in making a bigger boulder, there is just more time involved in doing it. And when time is money it cannot be reproduced because it is cost prohibitive, not because our masons are too dumb.

Edited by questionmark
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I told you a few hundred times: Put up the extra money that the construction with ancient means would cost and I'll find you the masons to do it. There is no secret in making a bigger boulder, there is just more time involved in doing it. And when time is money it cannot be reproduced because it is cost prohibitive, not because our masons are too dumb.

A bold claim, but highly doubtful. Recall that Protzen spent 2 weeks in 1986 feverishly pounding what ultimately resembled a rather unappealing coprolite roughly the size of a bowling ball. He had good intentions and pretty decent funding but he also learned his lesson and never tried again.

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A bold claim, but highly doubtful. Recall that Protzen spent 2 weeks in 1986 feverishly pounding what ultimately resembled a rather unappealing coprolite roughly the size of a bowling ball. He had good intentions and pretty decent funding but he also learned his lesson and never tried again.

Just because it took some troglodytes 3 months to drag the blue stones of Stonehenge from its quarry to the site you really believe we cannot replicate it? Yes I understand that somebody who gets an asthma attack every time he moves his butt out of his swiveling chair is incapable of swinging a mallet. But concluded from the abilities of oneself to the abilities of others is not precisely scientific (and even counter intuitive), there are plenty of people capable of doing it.

This guy roughs a stone ball by hand and only uses power tools to smooth it (which, I have to agree, with quartz sand takes quite a while longer but is not impossible)

Edited by questionmark
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A bold claim, but highly doubtful. Recall that Protzen spent 2 weeks in 1986 feverishly pounding what ultimately resembled a rather unappealing coprolite roughly the size of a bowling ball. He had good intentions and pretty decent funding but he also learned his lesson and never tried again.

Protzen is not a stone Mason, $30k(US) up front plus travel expenses, room and board will have a stone Mason with a tender available to you with tools contemporary to Inca construction at your service for two weeks. You are responsible for supplying the raw material equal to that used by the Inca to be worked into blocks

Edited by Jarocal
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Protzen is not a stone Mason, $30k(US) up front plus travel expenses, room and board will have a stone Mason with a tender available to you with tools contemporary to Inca construction at your service for two weeks. You are responsible for supplying the raw material equal to that used by the Inca to be worked into blocks

I would not say blocks, a single block in 2 week is more likely. That is a lot of work.

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I would not say blocks, a single block in 2 week is more likely. That is a lot of work.

That depends on the size/shape of the final product. If your talking one of the "H-blocks" then you are correct. If you are content with smaller, simpler, polgonal shapes then perhaps a dozen. Material choice will also impact time. Limestone would be faster but granite and andesite are both still workable. I probably should add to include red ochre powder, thread, and sand to the list they need to provide...

Edited by Jarocal

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